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MMO-Champion
I would love to see the 2piece setboni on MM PvP gear increase the length of the buff by 50% or decrease the time you have to stand still by 50%.
I dont want sniper training to be removed from mastery, since I would like to stack mastery for fun with the increased range
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2014-07-21, 11:26 AM #181The Patient
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2014-07-21, 11:55 AM #182I am Murloc!
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According to Holinka, they are looking into Melee gap closers/CC right now, since Melee are just too good now that mobility and CC have been toned down. If they nerf melee, then Sniper Training may indeed become viable in PvP, but we need to know what changes will be made before we can judge.
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2014-07-21, 04:19 PM #183Warchief
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I'm able to reliably beat warriors 1v1 in beta as Survival, but not as MM. Having to stop casting Aimed Shot to disengage when they leap after you disengage, then they 2-shot you is kinda... meh.
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Originally Posted by GennGreymane
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2014-07-21, 05:03 PM #184Deleted
Actually, Sniper Training fits PVE just fine; you gotta stand still to perform the highest DPS possible, and then you have a 2/3 seconds timer to find a safe spot, and then the cycle begins again (numbers will just have to be tweaked and then we're good).
In PVP, however, forget about it. Trying to stand still undeniably results in the situation where you're enemy will enjoy every second of dancing around you like an 8 year old girl in her first dance recital. Trust me, it happened to me. A LOT.
And now that they thought removing the extra range was a good idea, MM has nothing fun left.
Enjoy your cast times --' (guaranteed, it's WIP, but still, the spec skims the lack of fun in PVP, and, dare I say, the unplayable ...)
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2014-07-21, 05:51 PM #185Blademaster
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I'm sick of so called PvP MM Hunters saying that it may be viable... Or people getting hyped for the range bonus wanting to "Stack Mastery" -_-
It will never be viable... You cannot sit still as a hunter... Yes Sniper training is a nice idea for PvE but it needs to be a talent...
Blizzard seriously needs to change this... Sniper Training Cannot go live as our Mastery... It will NOT work...
I am getting fucking angry with blizzard more and more every day with this issue... which is made worse by the stupid blue posts about "Sniper Training is great for PvP, Just find some time to stay still... and its optional anyway" I mean... WTF...
I'm all for a more interesting mastery for MM... But this is fucked up...
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2014-07-21, 07:15 PM #186I am Murloc!
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I think you are exagerating. Sniper Training is bad for PvP, but not that bad. With them now turning their attention to Melee gap closers and CC, it may become viable. Or so I hope. Originally Posted by Meleehunter
About it becoming a Talent... no way in hell it would share a row with Focusing Shot. If it ever seized to be our Mastery, it would probably become a passive.
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I think you are exagerating. Sniper Training is bad for PvP, but not that bad. With them now turning their attention to Melee gap closers and CC, it may become viable. Or so I hope. Originally Posted by Meleehunter
About it becoming a Talent... no way in hell it would share a row with Focusing Shot. If it ever seized to be our Mastery, it would probably become a passive.
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2014-07-21, 08:56 PM #187Blademaster
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Originally Posted by DeicideUH
I don't think anyone who thinks that Sniper Training could be viable in PvP is experienced in MM PvP. Not trying to take a shot at you but, if you truly think standing still as a hunter in a high rating arena match could be viable then you need to find another calling...
Blizzard need to know that it cannot go live... again i'm not trying to be mean but please don't interfere with something that so obviously needs changing.
As for sniper training being a talent, you need to explain why "no way in hell would it share a row with focusing shot"... it would fit in perfectly... And it will keep all the "Hunters" who really want Sniper Training back happy... No way in hell should it be forced as our Mastery or a Passive...
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2014-07-22, 05:55 PM #188Scarab Lord
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they could make it ramp up instead of being a flat % for standing still for 3 seconds.
for example every second we stand still the buff stacks to max 3 times, each stack giving us 1/3 of our total mastery.
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2014-07-22, 08:10 PM #189Scarab Lord
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The other solution is that you don't gear mastery for PVP. Obviously there wont be reforging in WOD but you can choose the PVP bits with the least mastery. There's always been options for every item slot except the actual 5 piece PVP sets (probably not all of which will have mastery on). Mastery might not be the strongest stat anyway.
With the changes to all the classes in WOD it also might be possible that you can stand still for 3 seconds every now and again. Putting this new mastery into how PVP works now might not give you the true outcome of how it will work out in WOD.
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2014-07-22, 11:40 PM #190Blademaster
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I'm in Beta... It does not work.
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2014-07-23, 02:25 AM #191Grunt
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This is a great solution. Keeps the Sniper Training idea and bonuses still desirable, but reduces the drawbacks it has in PVP. Since it would be attached gear, it wouldn't affect PVE encounters. Originally Posted by jSewell
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2014-07-23, 06:52 AM #192Blademaster
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No, any time that i have to stop and stand still for a buff is just plain stupid design...
They need to make it a talent so the people who are all about sniper training can still have it while the non-clickers can avoid a disaster.
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2014-07-23, 07:28 AM #193Deleted
Personally I would just add something like 'incresed moving speed by X%(inc by mastery with some cap) while sniper training not active'.
Sure number should be correctly balanced but that would be great for both pve and pvp, also indirectly increasing uptime of dmg part of mastery.
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2014-07-23, 12:33 PM #194Mechagnome
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Every time you have to stop to rez pet, or a caster has to stop to cast, is stupid design? Originally Posted by Meleehunter
Retired hunter
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2014-07-29, 04:46 PM #195Blademaster
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Hunters are not casters -_- Originally Posted by Nnug
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2014-07-29, 06:42 PM #196Stood in the Fire
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The last 7 years called, they want to disagree with you. Originally Posted by Meleehunter
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2014-07-29, 06:45 PM #197Warchief
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Yeah I consider Hunters a caster as while they don't use int they still use cast time abilities
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2014-07-29, 07:58 PM #198I am Murloc!
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They are quite different thought because their cast time skill are mainly for resource recovery. Exceptions: Aimed Shot and Powershot. Also they can't be interrupted, can't be silenced, are highly mobile, rely too much on weapon and lack defensive CDs (they rely on mobility for defense and most defensive CDs are based on moving from harm). Originally Posted by WintersLegion
I don't think hunters are casters. They are their own niche, part-caster and part-melee-like.
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2014-07-30, 04:59 PM #199Stood in the Fire
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Good to know. Is that because of roots? Originally Posted by Arcanimus
See I'm thinking w/o deadzone & scatter shot it might be viable to dance in and out of range on melee (trap launcher disabled). Reminds me of the old hunter playstyle.
Also have you tried ramp up Aimed shots on warriors / melee. As in Ice trap Aimed shot CS, Wyvern Sting, Aimed shot with RF up or even webs, camo? Just thinking out loud
And as you said, 2-shotted, so a tuning phase for melee is indeed coming.
I also would not be surprised to see hunters get nerfed too. Range interupt with a large amount of instant (though bad) CC still makes them very powerful come WOD. Casting while moving might not last.
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2014-07-30, 07:25 PM #200The Patient
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I actually think Sniper Trainings main issue is how good it is, rather than how inconvenient it is...
Let me explain: the old Sniper Training only worked with certain abilities. It also lasted a heck of a lot longer, but took twice as long to apply. The caveat? When you were moving and Sniper Training fell off, you still had abilities to use during that time for 100% efficiency: the ones Sniper Training didn't affect.
So if you were about to use Explosive Shot or Black Arrow without Sniper Training up, you were making a big mistake: but you could still use Cobra and Arcane for their full potential. Still moving for another two seconds and won't be able to get ST back up right away? Delay your ST casts in favour of arcane and cobra.
It was smart, decisive play that gave room for error and choice.
Right now, Sniper Training is a blanket effect. It affects ALL damage, ALL crits with all abilities. It's not as fun because you can't make those decisions or skill checks. You're limited entirely with what you can do in an encounter. I like Sniper Training but I'm not sure its current implementation was the way to use it.
Imagine the old ST on Survival right now: beefed up explosive shots that you've potentially pooled (or not and just procced nicely)? That's a good decision choice. It even ENCOURAGES pooling while you're moving, because you'd want to use an ability that wasn't affected by ST like arcane shot.
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