Operation Protective Edge - Israeli - Palestinian Conflict

[Barendon]

You may have or have not heard about the dramatic escalation in the middle east, following a month and a half of vile crimes committed by extremists on both sides, it seems that the scenario has shifted it's course back to the normal routine that began first on 2008 with Operation Cast Lead (often mentioned as The Gaza War), later on we saw a much more similar event to our current time, the 2012 Operation Pillar of Defense.
So how it all went along?
On 12 June 2014 , three Israeli teenagers were kidnapped by a Terrorist group while hitchhiking in the late evening of Thursday. The teenagers were shot shortly after, when one of the boys decided to inform the police. The kidnappers have probably realized it, and shot the three teenagers on the spot in their car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8r7I0DKRDw
So began an operation to find and return the boys, while it was still unknown at the time that the teenagers were murdered. Israel has blamed Hamas, and the IDF began shortly after, to arrest known Hamas activists. Israel barred the west bank of every vehicle movement in and out, damaging the normal life of the citizens of the west bank. When they were done, Israel has arrested about 400 activists, including some of the prisoners that were released during the Gilad Shalit exchange. (Hamas has fired missiles in response).
On 30 June 2014, the bodies of the three teenagers were found.
On 2 July 2014, Jewish terrorists kidnapped the Palestinian teenager Mohammed Abu Khdeir, and burned him alive.
The death of the Palestinian boy caused lots of riots over the country involving Israeli Arabs, Baduois , Palestinians etc. The riots included road blockage, stones and molotovs throws on Israeli civillians and more.
Earlier this week, Israel has arrested the responsible for the burning of the Palestinian boy, yet the riots have yet to cease and the rocket launches from gaza started escalating. After a brief silence from Israeli air force, last night Israel has attacked 50 targets in gaza and initiated Operation Protective Edge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Protective_Edge
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/08/wo...tml?hpt=imi_c1
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...059977350.html
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...539668,00.html

Gave a few links from different biased sources for your imagination to spark!
also, earlier today 5 Hamas commando tried to kidnap/murder citizens in an Israeli village, the threat was quickly... diminished.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHDaCZgg46A

Keep discussion in good quality, bring proof to your claims, don't take anything here personally.
Peace.

[Dethh]

The jews are just as bad as the arabs over there except israel has support from america. Supposedly palestinians were behind the kidnapping and killing of the three jewish teens. What do the jews do? Kidnap a palestinian kid and set him on fire killing him in the woods. We should cut off all the money we give to israel and worry about things like our borders.

[bayushisan]

Honestly I think it's long past time that Israel stopped playing defensive and just removed Hamas as a threat entirely to the best of their ability. These are not people who can be reasoned with, and that singular fact needs to be acknowledged for any progress to go forward.

Hamas has the singular goal of wiping out every last Jew in Israel, and claiming ALL the land for themselves. That's not a group you can reason with or talk down. That's a group that is going to keep trying to kill you no matter what you do and no matter what you give to appease them. The only thing one can do is remove the threat and, regrettably, that may take some pretty intense violence. Put down their terrorists and put them down HARD. Hamas wants genocide, Israel wants peace with its neighbors. The only way to get the latter is to eliminate the former. If you can't see that then the problem with seeing reality is yours.

[Deleted]

Honestly I think it's long past time that Israel stopped playing defensive and just removed Hamas as a threat entirely to the best of their ability. These are not people who can be reasoned with, and that singular fact needs to be acknowledged for any progress to go forward.

Hamas has the singular goal of wiping out every last Jew in Israel, and claiming ALL the land for themselves. That's not a group you can reason with or talk down. That's a group that is going to keep trying to kill you no matter what you do and no matter what you give to appease them. The only thing one can do is remove the threat and, regrettably, that may take some pretty intense violence. Put down their terrorists and put them down HARD. Hamas wants genocide, Israel wants peace with its neighbors. The only way to get the latter is to eliminate the former. If you can't see that then the problem with seeing reality is yours.

Hamas are indeed asshats, yet Israel has continually demonstrated the exact same desire to occupy all land held by Palestine.

Invading (again) isn't going to get rid of Hamas, it's an ideology at this point. You could literally kill every single member, and it'd be back in a year with new volunteers.

[Barendon]

UncleSilas, you can't blame Israel for retaliating for the rocket launches. Hamas can't exist if you want a chance for peace, it's too strong and affects too many people with their extreme views.

[Deleted]

UncleSilas, you can't blame Israel for retaliating for the rocket launches. Hamas can't exist if you want a chance for peace, it's too strong and affects too many people with their extreme views.

Never said they shouldn't stop attackers, full invasion of the region is going to be a disaster.

And you didn't address my point on Hamas, merely stated how bad they are, which I did. It's as I said, Hamas don't even need Palestinian followers, plenty of followers from surrounding regions to volunteer.

[Barendon]

Never said they shouldn't stop attackers, full invasion of the region is going to be a disaster.

And you didn't address my point on Hamas, merely stated how bad they are, which I did. It's as I said, Hamas don't even need Palestinian followers, plenty of followers from surrounding regions to volunteer.

Well, with what's currently going on, it's Hamas fires missiles, IDF strikes stronger, Hamas tries harder, IDF strikes stronger. It's just keeps on going, and it's not going to stop. A full invasion is truly very bad for israel, it will risk many Israeli soldiers who are going to get ambushed and will cause alooooot more damage to the palestinian citizens. Yet, air strikes will not solve the problem.
Hamas is a Palestinian group. It feeds on the extremists among the Palestinian people. There are no other followers in the region. The only thing surrounding them that's not sea, is Israel and Egypt. They completely separated. Hamas never worked abroad, and their tiny mass of followers in the west bank have been mostly taken out into custody following the kidnapping.

[Deleted]

Well, with what's currently going on, it's Hamas fires missiles, IDF strikes stronger, Hamas tries harder, IDF strikes stronger. It's just keeps on going, and it's not going to stop. A full invasion is truly very bad for israel, it will risk many Israeli soldiers who are going to get ambushed and will cause alooooot more damage to the palestinian citizens. Yet, air strikes will not solve the problem.
Hamas is a Palestinian group. It feeds on the extremists among the Palestinian people. There are no other followers in the region. The only thing surrounding them that's not sea, is Israel and Egypt. They completely separated. Hamas never worked abroad, and their tiny mass of followers in the west bank have been mostly taken out into custody following the kidnapping.

Extremists aren't born, they're made. You really think random arrests, which they mostly were, captured "most" of Hamas? Hamas are viewed quite positively in both Jordan and Egypt, so I'd wager if Israel did cleanse the region you'd see splinter groups form to "avenge" them.

An invasion of the regions is what Israel has always wanted, it's truly a sad day for everyone involved. A ground force at this stage might really be the last straw if things keep escalating as they have been. Honestly the Israeli policy on the Palestinian nation has been disgusting since the forties, and hasn't improved since. The men who drew up these policies are a shame to the Jewish people they claim to represent.

[Mahourai]

So began an operation to find and return the boys, while it was still unknown at the time that the teenagers were murdered.

A note: It was still publicly unknown. The Israeli government acted as though the kidnapping victims were still alive when they had access to the grisly 911 call that ended with their death by gunshots.

[Deleted]

A note: It was still publicly unknown. The Israeli government acted as though the kidnapping victims were still alive when they had access to the grisly 911 call that ended with their death by gunshots.

They actually only knew shots were fired, they may have been under the impression that only the youth on the phone was killed.

[Beefsquatch]

So I just saw the video of the IDF owning the 5 Commandos that raided the beach..and I can't help but wonder...what the fuck were they thinking they were going to accomplish? Aside doing it during broad daylight which is kinda dumb, they were raiding an Army base. Did they really think they wouldn't get spotted? Plus, wtf would they do if they got into the base anyway.

Just seemed like a really strange and idiotic strategy. Hell of an invasion.

But anyway, Israel is currently considering sending ground troops over to Gaza. We'll see how this plays out in the next few days/weeks.

[Melkandor]

We should cut off all the money we give to israel and worry about things like our borders.

I'm American and Jewish, and I agree with this statement. Israel is not anywhere close to being in need of US aid, the US should be spending that money securing our Southern borders and helping out our impoverished citizens. Israel is more than capable enough to hold off any aggression from Arabic states, let alone Hamas.

[Mahourai]

They actually only knew shots were fired, they may have been under the impression that only the youth on the phone was killed.

Not exactly.

On 12 June, three Jewish Israeli youths, Naftali Frenkel, Gilad Shaar and Eyal Yifrach, went missing while hitchhiking from Kfar Etzion, an illegal settlement in the occupied West Bank. At 10:25pm, Shaar placed a panicked call to Israeli police.

During the eerie call lasting two minutes and nine seconds, the supposed kidnappers can be heard ordering the youths to keep their heads down. Israel Radio plays in the background as Shaar repeatedly appeals for help. Then several gunshots can be heard followed by celebratory singing as the kidnappers remark, “We got three.” The teens had been killed.

It took until the next morning for the police to connect the call to a missing persons report filed by the youths’ parents. In a meeting with Shin Bet officials that day, the teens’ parents listened to a recording of the phone call.

Bat Galim Shaar, the mother of Gilad Shaar, demanded investigators explain to her why gunshots can be heard in the background, and if this meant that her son was dead.

According to Bat Galim Shaar, police claimed the bullets were “blanks.” When the car used by the alleged kidnappers was discovered burned by a roadside, the Shin Bet told her no DNA was found. In fact, bullets and blood were present throughout the interior of the car. The Shin Bet had lied to the parents of the missing teens in order to stoke false hopes that their sons were alive.

[Barendon]

Extremists aren't born, they're made. You really think random arrests, which they mostly were, captured "most" of Hamas? Hamas are viewed quite positively in both Jordan and Egypt, so I'd wager if Israel did cleanse the region you'd see splinter groups form to "avenge" them.

An invasion of the regions is what Israel has always wanted, it's truly a sad day for everyone involved. A ground force at this stage might really be the last straw if things keep escalating as they have been. Honestly the Israeli policy on the Palestinian nation has been disgusting since the forties, and hasn't improved since. The men who drew up these policies are a shame to the Jewish people they claim to represent.

Hmm, they cleared their base of operations, all the system has been shut down. They need to start over. So yeah, it's pretty much down for some time.
Hmmm you're completely wrong on the last paragraph. Israel has given up the west bank and gaza whenever it had the chance, and it's a fact. Nothing good came up from gaza being part of israel or the west bank being completely under israeli flag. A ground invasion would mean a catastrophe for Israel all the same for the palestinian citizens. Now, we can talk about history about how come the Israeli policy wasn't all that bad, but I am tired. Let's see to it tomorrow!

- - - Updated - - -

Not exactly.

There was no indication that they were dead. The IDF presumed strongly that they were though.

[Mahourai]

There was no indication that they were dead. The IDF presumed strongly that they were though.

There was no indication they were dead, aside from literally hearing them get executed, on tape. And all the physical evidence.

The police's story was that the bullets were blanks. Seriously.

[bayushisan]

Hamas are indeed asshats, yet Israel has continually demonstrated the exact same desire to occupy all land held by Palestine.

Invading (again) isn't going to get rid of Hamas, it's an ideology at this point. You could literally kill every single member, and it'd be back in a year with new volunteers.

There is a difference and it's one that is always conveniently ignored. Hamas, and many of Israel's neighbors, want to kill every living Jew. The Jews of Israel want to be left alone and left in peace and not have to kill their enemies who keep trying to wipe them out for no other reason than that they are Jewish. Hamas wants to kill all the Jews, the Jews of Israel don't want to kill all the Palestinians. Notice the difference there? Hamas is the government of one sect of the Palestinians and that is justifiably troubling when their stated goals include genocide against your people.

Capitulation's not going to work in dealing with them, history shows us that. So the answer lies with something else and the trick is finding what. I have my own thoughts on the matter but they are mine and people tend to not agree.


[Infracted - Nation-bashing]

[bdew]

The jews are just as bad as the arabs over there except israel has support from america

No we aren't...

The Jewish terrorists that murder the Palestinian boy were arested and will spend the rest of their life in jail.

Palestinian terrorists that kill Israelis on the other hand are treated as national heroes.

[Oktoberfest]

UncleSilas, you can't blame Israel for retaliating for the rocket launches. Hamas can't exist if you want a chance for peace, it's too strong and affects too many people with their extreme views.

Funny, you can swap out Hamas for Israel and still have the same result.

Its time the US wash its hands of Israel and the Middle East period. I do not trust Israel anyways.

[Mavett]

Funny, you can swap out Hamas for Israel and still have the same result.

Its time the US wash its hands of Israel and the Middle East period. I do not trust Israel anyways.

What would we do without your trust, my my.

[Deleted]

These are not people who can be reasoned with, and that singular fact needs to be acknowledged for any progress to go forward.

Some might say it goes for both sides - at least small groups on both sides.