Operation Protective Edge - Israeli - Palestinian Conflict

[cubby]

Your view of the two sides is.... shocking. And you have the guts to claim I don't understand this conflict?

Yeah, and it seems only one of us knows anything about the conflict. All you do is quote Wikilinks (without reading them) and go on and on about how awful Israel acts against the people who continually attack and invade their land (and yes, I know Israel is a bad actor as well regarding their continual building on contested territory). I'm not going to get into another pissing match with you posting over and over again about ignorance, which seems to be your only retort to actually information.

I guess we can give you one last try. Here goes: Can you accurately (or even remotely) describe Israel's perspective and reasoning for their actions in this ongoing conflict?

I'm sure you'll just post about other's ignorance without ever really discussing the heart of the matter or even attempting a dialogue on the subject. But I guess I have a soft spot for hopeless cases.

(in before you rant and rave about my ignorance while only exposing your own).


[Infracted]

[Deleted]

This operation will be a failure as much as every other Israeli operation was "meant to stop HAMAS". Its getting ridiculous due to the death toll among Palestinians, 41 deaths in Gaza the last 2 days. But this will not last forever as Israel is losing politically overtime, the more they keep the oppression and occupation the more they lose. 846 Palestinian civilians and 7 Israeli civilians were killed in Operations Cast Lead and Pillar of Defense. Civilian death toll among Palestinians will be a disaster in this operation. Aggression will not stop HAMAS.



http://www.councilforthenationalinte.../#.U713LbFQat-
http://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/20...gaza_operation

[Deleted]

I have a question to you, answer me without checking, how big is Israel? If I want to drive from the south to the north, how long will it take?

Haven't got a clue. 4 hours? Why would that be relevant?

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Your view of the two sides is.... shocking. And you have the guts to claim I don't understand this conflict?


do u see what i did there?

No I don't, in all honesty, as I didn't come up with a stupid claim that one side wants to live in peace the other are murderous terrorists myself.

[cubby]

Haven't got a clue. 4 hours? Why would that be relevant?

Why is information about a subject you're discussing relevant? And you don't even know that answer? Lol, talk about not knowing your subject matter.

[Deleted]

UncleSilas, you can't blame Israel for retaliating for the rocket launches. Hamas can't exist if you want a chance for peace, it's too strong and affects too many people with their extreme views.

Rockets been doing minimum damages to Israel while Israeli rockets do much more damage and mostly to infra structure and civilians.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stat/deaths.html

Main source of statistics is B'Tselem (The Israeli Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories)

[Barendon]

Why is information about a subject you're discussing relevant? And you don't even know that answer? Lol, talk about not knowing your subject matter.

How is that relevant at all? Israelis themselves barely know that.

[Mahourai]

This operation will be a failure as much as every other Israeli operation was "meant to stop HAMAS". Its getting ridiculous due to the death toll among Palestinians, 41 deaths in Gaza the last 2 days. But this will not last forever as Israel is losing politically overtime, the more they keep the oppression and occupation the more they lose. 846 Palestinian civilians and 7 Israeli civilians were killed in Operations Cast Lead and Pillar of Defense. Civilian death toll among Palestinians will be a disaster in this operation. Aggression will not stop HAMAS.



http://www.councilforthenationalinte.../#.U713LbFQat-
http://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/20...gaza_operation

The intent is not to stop Hamas. Hamas is very politically useful for Israel, and always has been.

[Barendon]

Rockets been doing minimum damages to Israel while Israeli rockets do much more damage and mostly to infra structure and civilians.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stat/deaths.html

Main source of statistics is B'Tselem (The Israeli Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories)

Well, Hamas is a gurilla terrorist group against a country. What would you expect?

[Deleted]

Look at the wars that Israel has been invovled in. Israel has been attacked repeatedly, won every time but once, which was more of a stalemate, and almost every time GAVE THE TERRITORY BACK that they took in their counter attacks. If the Arabs would have left Israel alone Jordan would still have the west bank, Egypt would still have Gaza, Syria would still have the Golan Heights and Jordan would still have Jerusalem. These are historic facts that these territories were taken after Israel was ATTACKED, not Israel being on the offensive but being attacked. Israel has given up territory they occupied and every time Hamas just goes “don’t care, we still want you dead” and launches a couple hundred more rockets. They even bulldozed some of the settlements trying to make peace. But they’ve finally realized that there is no point in talking peace, because it’s either their total destruction or nothing.

Actually, the six days war was a pre emptive attack. So the one that actually ATTACKED was israel. Little correction that i thought necessary. That's history for you.
Not sure what you're saying about hamas and the peace process.

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Why is information about a subject you're discussing relevant? And you don't even know that answer? Lol, talk about not knowing your subject matter.

You actually made me laugh in real life man. I swear.
I don't know how long it takes to drive from north israel to south israel. I do know though about israeli extremism, unlike you. This would make me more suitable to discuss the matter at hand.
The day a thread about the geography of israel pops up, I'll call you up for advices.

[Holas]

There is a difference and it's one that is always conveniently ignored. Hamas, and many of Israel's neighbors, want to kill every living Jew. The Jews of Israel want to be left alone and left in peace and not have to kill their enemies who keep trying to wipe them out for no other reason than that they are Jewish. Hamas wants to kill all the Jews, the Jews of Israel don't want to kill all the Palestinians. Notice the difference there? Hamas is the government of one sect of the Palestinians and that is justifiably troubling when their stated goals include genocide against your people.

Capitulation's not going to work in dealing with them, history shows us that. So the answer lies with something else and the trick is finding what. I have my own thoughts on the matter but they are mine and people tend to not agree.


[Infracted - Nation-bashing]

Apparently saying that the Hamas wants to kill all Jews (look up their charter - they claim it themselves) worth a ban now due to "nation bashing". Not surprising.
I stopped commenting here as you can get banned just by supporting israel.

[Deleted]

Why is information about a subject you're discussing relevant? And you don't even know that answer? Lol, talk about not knowing your subject matter.

Asking how long it does take to drive through Israel is nowhere near relevant to the deaths of Palestinian and Israeli teens nor the new Israeli military campaign.

[Deleted]

The difference between the two sides is that no one believes the Israeli government would capture and burn a Palestinian child, whereas everyone and their uncle understands the Palestinian Authority can and does target civilians as a matter of policy.

Aka Israelis have extremists, but it's not the Israeli government.

Palestinians have extremists, and it's just as likely the extremists are their government as anyone else.

So yeah, one side is more blame-worthy. One side's government lobs rockets pretty much daily and targets civilians.

Actually, the israeli government led wars on palestinian territories that were carried out in an extremely brutal way, close enough to terror. And that's not even looking at the everyday policies by the very israeli government about Palestinians. Checks, limitations, controls, raids, demolitions...

[cubby]

Asking how long it does take to drive through Israel is nowhere near relevant to the deaths of Palestinian and Israeli teens nor the new Israeli military campaign.

Right, because knowing information about the area you're talking about is such a bad idea.

[Deleted]

Apparently saying that the Hamas wants to kill all Jews (look up their charter - they claim it themselves) worth a ban now due to "nation bashing". Not surprising.
I stopped commenting here as you can get banned just by supporting israel.

It really is time Commissar Endus is relieved of his Mod duties, so we can start having some objective discussions here.

[cubby]

Actually, the israeli government led wars on palestinian territories that were carried out in an extremely brutal way, close enough to terror. And that's not even looking at the everyday policies by the very israeli government about Palestinians. Checks, limitations, controls, raids, demolitions...

But they were reacting to attacks by Palestine, rather than attacking indiscriminately against specific civilian targets. I know that Israel has killed many, many civilians, and I'm not condoning it. The key difference is that the Palestine and Muslim groups specifically target and attack civilians, whereas Israel is seeking out their attackers, who conveniently hide behind civilians.

[Barendon]

Right, because knowing information about the area you're talking about is such a bad idea.

They do know information, about the conflict. That's the discussion. This is not an Israeli geographical lesson thread.

[cubby]

They do know information, about the conflict. That's the discussion. This is not an Israeli geographical lesson thread.

You should probably stop commenting on this particular topic. I've been trying to give you a decent way out, but seriously, geographical knowledge of an area isn't relevant? Really? Knowing how territories are laid out and who borders who isn't relevant? Keep on truckin'!

[Deleted]

Well, Hamas is a gurilla terrorist group against a country. What would you expect?

Terrorists or not, Israeli army been mostly killing Palestinian civilians with no ties to Hamas. So the double punishment manipulative technique that is being used no longer works. Israeli army killed all those civilians and not Hamas, it is a double punishment against those Palestinian civilians for saying "Israel killed them because Hamas is a terrorist gurilla group".

[Deleted]

Apparently saying that the Hamas wants to kill all Jews (look up their charter - they claim it themselves) worth a ban now due to "nation bashing". Not surprising.
I stopped commenting here as you can get banned just by supporting israel.

What charter?
Hamas has even recognized the state of Israel and supported a two state solution. But I guess you didn't know that did you?

In March 2006, Hamas released its official legislative program. The document clearly signaled that Hamas could refer the issue of recognizing Israel to a national referendum. Under the heading "Recognition of Israel," it stated simply (AFP, 3/11/06): "The question of recognizing Israel is not the jurisdiction of one faction, nor the government, but a decision for the Palestinian people." This was a major shift away from their 1988 charter.[65]*A few months later, via*Maryland's Jerome Segal, the group sent a letter to U.S. President*George Bush*stating they "don't mind having a Palestinian state in the 1967 borders", and asked for direct negotiations: "Segal emphasized that a state within the 1967 borders and a truce for many years could be considered Hamas'*de facto*recognition of Israel."[66]

In an April 2008 meeting between Hamas leader*Khaled Meshal*and former U.S. President*Jimmy Carter, an understanding was reached in which Hamas agreed it would respect the creation of a Palestinian state in the territory seized by Israel in the 1967*Six-Day War, provided this were ratified by the Palestinian people in a referendum. Hamas later publicly offered a long-term*truce*with Israel if Israel agreed to return to its 1967 borders and grant the "right of return" to all*Palestinian refugees.[67]*In November 2008, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh re-stated that Hamas was willing to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders, and offered Israel a long-term truce "if Israel recognized the Palestinians' national rights".[68]*In 2009, in a letter to UN Secretary General*Ban Ki-moon, Haniyeh repeated his group's support for a two-state settlement based on 1967 borders: "We would never thwart efforts to create an independent Palestinian state with borders [from] June 4, 1967, with Jerusalem as its capital."[69]*On December 1, 2010, Ismail Haniyeh again repeated, "We accept a Palestinian state on the borders of 1967, with Jerusalem as its capital, the release of Palestinian prisoners, and the resolution of the issue of refugees," and "Hamas will respect the results [of a referendum] regardless of whether it differs with its ideology and principles."[70]

In February 2012, according to the Palestinian authority, Hamas forswore the use of violence. Evidence for this was provided by an eruption of violence from*Islamic Jihad*in March 2012 after an Israeli assassination of a Jihad leader, during which Hamas refrained from attacking Israel.[71]*"Israel—despite its mantra that because Hamas is sovereign in Gaza it is responsible for what goes on there—almost seems to understand," wrote Israeli journalists Avi Issacharoff and Amos Harel, "and has not bombed Hamas offices or installations".[72]

Israel has rejected some truce offers by Hamas because it contends the group uses them to prepare for more fighting rather than peace.[73]*The Atlantic*magazine columnist*Jeffrey Goldberg, along with other analysts, believes Hamas may be incapable of permanent reconciliation with Israel.[74][75]*Mkhaimer Abusada, a political scientist at*Al Azhar University, writes that Hamas talks "of hudna [temporary ceasefire], not of peace or reconciliation with Israel. They believe over time they will be strong enough to liberate all historic Palestine."[76]

As I said before. The worst mistake from hamas is to not isolate extremists but the worst mistake from Israel is to not have worked together with Hamas when it turned into political party.

[Barendon]

You should probably stop commenting on this particular topic. I've been trying to give you a decent way out, but seriously, geographical knowledge of an area isn't relevant? Really? Knowing how territories are laid out and who borders who isn't relevant? Keep on truckin'!

When you ask how long it takes to cross israel by car, then no.