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  1. #1
    Deleted

    Big Problems With The WoD Models!

    Hey there, I came across this thread on the europe forums and I thought I'd share with you. He makes some pretty solid points.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...8902?page=1#11

    For your convenience, I put the post here:

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hello there!

    I have discovered some grave bugs in the new WoD models that cannot be anything other than a technical oversight! Let's begin, shall we?

    Male Draenei:
    - Male Draenei, in their current old form, are clearly depicted as having a six-pack. Six abs. However, the new male Draenei models are clearly shown having only four abs. How is this possible? Where did the two missing abs go?
    - If we watch the TBC opening cinematic, we can with clear definition see that male Draenei have glowing light blue pupils, and white sclera as their eyes. Yet, the WoD model is depicted as having fully blue eyes, with no pupils whatsoever. Another strange bug.

    http://warcraftonline.files.wordpres...draenei_03.png

    Check out those consistent, cinematic, male Draenei eyes. A clear bug, or technical oversight, has caused the current eyes to be inaccurate.

    https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms...4950043540.jpg
    (WoW-Europe.com link, has to be safe.)
    In this picture, you can clearly see depicted, that the elbow is far thicker than the bicep, and two of the abs are missing, making for a four-pack, instead of the six-pack they are currently shown to have. The next-by-next with the old model will show the old model to have a six pack, and the new model to have a four pack.

    Males:
    - Somehow, the men in Azeroth have found a way to muscle-train their elbows. Yes. Their elbows. They have managed to train their elbows so thick and muscular, that their elbows are infact far thicker than their biceps. This is scientifically impossible. Clearly, some manner of technical bug has allowed the men of Azeroth a secret technique to train their elbows to silly proportions.
    - Wrists. A grave bug, a grave error, in WoW has caused all wrists to disappear. A glitch, I think. Without wrists (that have to be thinner than their elbows and biceps), the men of Azeroth cannot move their arms. Without arm movement, they cannot wield their weapons, save the world, and slay kobolds. There can be no WoW, without wrists.

    https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms...3722334573.jpg
    (WoW-Europe.com link)
    Where do I begin? Look at those hands. Look at those wrists. They're thicker than the shoulder and bicep. Scientifically impossible. Wait, is that a massive -thigh gap-? Why are their legs so small compared to their body? Isn't there an artists' rule on leg-to-torso ratio? Atleast -they- have a six pack.

    Female Nelves:
    https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms...9673829893.jpg
    (WoW-Europe.com link)
    Where do I begin? A strange graphical glitch seems to have made it's way to the elves supposed abs. There appears to be a mini-four-pack inside of their.. four-pack. Blizzard, please, this ab-bug with abs disappearing, and being inwardly cloned, keeps popping up. Wouldn't a strong warrior woman have a clearly defined, rigid, strong, eight-or-six pack?

    I hope that, now that you have been made aware of these bugs and graphical glitches, you can find an apt fix before things run out of hand and strange, impossible, anatomies cause the warriors of Azeroth to collapse and die.

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    Why can't blizzard design proper wrists, or, you know any resemblance to acceptable anatomy? How come blizzard takes a month to come up with their concepts, but people improve it and make it awesome in photoshop? Don't they make a concept of what they want the model to look like, before making the model?

    Why could blizzard not get a fix on the female worgen? Why did a multi-million company filled with, I assume, hundreds of game designers were unable to make a proper female worgen, but someone did in under a hour on photoshop?

    http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...s/compared.png

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dear Blizzard model designers, being part of a multi-million dollar game company that earns over 20 million per month clearly implied that they have the money to hire designers that have gone to art school.

    Did you happen to learn something akin to this, there?:
    http://idrawgirls.com/tutorials/wp-c...or-artists.jpg
    http://idrawgirls.com/tutorials/wp-c...awing-back.jpg

    Please apply it to your efforts to design a model.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Because people are photoshopping an image of the model. Imagine someone does a full 3D model of a car, skins it and then takes a screenshot to show people... Anybody can photoshop that screenshot to improve it to their liking in any manner of ways, doesn't mean they can simply and easily adjust the actual 3D model to look like the photoshop, while still functioning as intended and looking right in all angles..

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Are you implying that blizzard doesn't use concepts for their characters, that they build their models after? Surely you are not implying that blizzard model designers are not, infact, limited only by their creative mind and their skill? If they want to give the human model four legs and six arms, they have the ability to do this. Just like they have the ability to take a look at the improved photoshop models, and alter their current models after this concept.

    Infact, in the tauren video we see that blizzard uses -sliders- to put their model in place.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_sRrI7SOwA

    Looking at how they design their models, and put them in place, it should be absolute childs' play to fix the atrocious errors that the current models suffer from, don't you agree?

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    13/07/2014 11:42Posted by Marahdrin
    There are a lot of model bugs ingame, all of which go unfixed and intentionally ignored.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Correct. It often feels like Blizzard does not listen to the community, does not care about what we have to say or report about flaws they make. I just know no matter who points out what flaw with what model, it will go intentionally ignored and intentionally unfixed out of laziness, even if they provide reasoning and fixes, because blizzard does not want to put in time and effort to make their game perfect.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  2. #2
    yes and the human nails are 1 mm longer then the original, HOW DARE THEY!

  3. #3
    Im not sure if its the wrist arms the super thick neck tentacles or what but the new male Draenei just look thicker like they put on water weight or something. It kinda looks like the new one is a suit the old one could fit inside.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    So a guy that can't cope with exaggeration wanted realism and perfection from the new models, ends up disappointed... shocking. I suggest to take a good look at the "Bottoms Up" video, this is the Warcraft style and this is what to expect.

  5. #5
    Alpha is alpha, beta is beta, gamma is gamma

  6. #6
    this thread is really happening isn't it

    honestly how often to you strip your character down and zoom into their abs for this to be an issue.

    if how your vitual characters, in a fantasy world were you wear armor, abs look is something that affects you, you have issues

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Abstieg's Avatar
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    Warcraft anatomy =/= real life anatomy. It's that simple.
    The goddess in my avatar is Hayley Williams.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by kjj92 View Post
    Alpha is alpha, beta is beta, gamma is gamma
    I think the OP put everything is terms of "bugs" to avoid this type of comment. But it's not bugs, it's design decisions from the Artists and Developers and is subject to change based on feedback which the OP is providing in a roundabout way.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer leaks's Avatar
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    Wow that guy really wasted his time with that rant.
    "Terror, darkness, power? The Forsaken crave not these things; the Forsaken ARE these things."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pr0ev0lution View Post
    this thread is really happening isn't it

    honestly how often to you strip your character down and zoom into their abs for this to be an issue.

    if how your vitual characters, in a fantasy world were you wear armor, abs look is something that affects you, you have issues
    By that logic, why bother at all with new models? Your character won't be visible at all underneath all of that tier armour you'll be wearing, leaving not a shred of skin visible. Since armour in this game is nothing more than plastered on textures, won't thick wrists show through the armour?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turboface View Post
    So a guy that can't cope with exaggeration wanted realism and perfection from the new models, ends up disappointed... shocking. I suggest to take a good look at the "Bottoms Up" video, this is the Warcraft style and this is what to expect.
    If that is so, why were some of the models previously made in a different manner, and the Warcraft style has been shown as different in the old models, and cinematics? Does the warcraft style change every five minutes?

    Quote Originally Posted by kjj92 View Post
    Alpha is alpha, beta is beta, gamma is gamma
    And without feedback, nothing will change. And I doubt it will, anyway.

  11. #11
    The Insane Feali's Avatar
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    The last time I saw one of my characters in his/her underwear was when I deleted it and sold all its equipment. The last character I deleted was in WotLk.

  12. #12
    Forearms = grip strength... If someone has even somewhat proportionate forearms to their biceps/triceps they'll look big when the arm aren't flexed (all these pictures). Thing is though having bigger forearms (grip strength) is probably a hell of alot more important when it comes to swinging a sword or carrying a shield than being to bicep curl 200lbs.

    Also lol at all the nitpicking... seriously? You forgot to mention that vanilla human didn't have gyno, yet over the course of wod's development (I guess he ran a cycle) got it. He also seemed to fix his posture too... guess they should change it back and make him perma shrugging.


    6 packs are genetics, you can't create or shape muscle bellies, just add more too them. I don't really understand what you mean by the nightelves having abs inside of abs... since really it looks pretty ordinary.

    and lulz at the thigh gap problem for draenei and human males... srsly? They don't have what most people would consider a thigh gap (ankles together, and a gap) It's pretty damn easy even if you have well developed legs to stand with feet shoulder width apart and have a thigh gap. It takes an absolute shit ton of mass to have to walk like a penguin.
    Last edited by Athorha; 2014-07-13 at 02:50 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Abstieg View Post
    Warcraft anatomy =/= real life anatomy. It's that simple.
    This. Huge hands and forearms and small heads are Blizzard's signature art style, at least in Warcraft and Starcraft. Realism is not what they're going for.

  14. #14
    Have to agree with the elbow / wrist thing. Although they are non-human so maybe their species has ridiculously thick arms with no joints. I'm having the same problem with the male human upper back "traps" which are ridiculously huge and defy proper anatomy.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Drizzard View Post
    By that logic, why bother at all with new models? Your character won't be visible at all underneath all of that tier armour you'll be wearing, leaving not a shred of skin visible. Since armour in this game is nothing more than plastered on textures, won't thick wrists show through the armour?



    If that is so, why were some of the models previously made in a different manner, and the Warcraft style has been shown as different in the old models, and cinematics? Does the warcraft style change every five minutes?



    And without feedback, nothing will change. And I doubt it will, anyway.
    1. Many people DO question the validity of making new character models for exactly that reason. Generally the justification is all in the face as this is what people focus on and a higher poly count makes sense to support the higher BONE count for animation purposes and this primarily supports the machinima community and even other video communities.

    2. Yes. 5 minutes is an exaggeration but the art style does change frequently with new artists adding their own flare and then being accepted by the top-artists. Early on Blizzard strived for realism and gradually, as they realised they couldn't technologically keep up with newer engines that specialised in realistic graphics, they adopted a more stylized cartoon-ish approach with a touch of realism. Sort of like some comic book styles.

    3. The models were targeted to not change the silhouette of the existing models. They recognise some gaping flaws with the old models and these will just have to carry over to the new models because they don't want to risk upsetting people who are already attached to how their characters look. Ideally, they'd add in alt skins and shapes for bodies and maybe they will someday (the new animation engine is a lot smoother and more powerful and easier to build with) but for today their focus is on replication. These are some pretty tight replications. Feedback is heard, likely agreed with, but will intentionally remain not enacted upon because that's the design decision.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Drizzard View Post
    If that is so, why were some of the models previously made in a different manner, and the Warcraft style has been shown as different in the old models, and cinematics? Does the warcraft style change every five minutes?
    For which models they took different approach? About the cinematic, yes with the MoP cinematic they decided stray from the realism for stylised look that came straight from the game.

  17. #17
    I read the whole damn post, but I can't find these big problems you refer to. Oh gosh, fantasy pixel races are scientifically inaccurate... OH NOES! Are you serious?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Drizzard View Post
    By that logic, why bother at all with new models? Your character won't be visible at all underneath all of that tier armour you'll be wearing, leaving not a shred of skin visible. Since armour in this game is nothing more than plastered on textures, won't thick wrists show through the armour?
    because we look outdated right now. with the new models we don't. even if they don't match your concept of perfect

    If that is so, why were some of the models previously made in a different manner, and the Warcraft style has been shown as different in the old models, and cinematics? Does the warcraft style change every five minutes?
    it doesn't. it's always been slightly cartoony and bright/loud and over the top visually in the game with a bent towards realism in the pretty pretty cines. hell compare the old undead lock from the first cine to the undead we see and use all the time. if it makes you feel better, just know that your drae has blue shiny eyes with white sclera and you just can't really SEE the sclera in-game. plus this is a first pass. the final models may reflect better detail work.

    And without feedback, nothing will change. And I doubt it will, anyway.
    and you don't want change as much as you want to complain and feel better by belittling the art team because they aren't making the art that you specifically want.
    “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”

    Quote Originally Posted by BatteredRose View Post
    They're greedy soulless monsters for not handing me everything for my 15 moneys a month!

  19. #19
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Athorha View Post
    Forearms = grip strength... If someone has even somewhat proportionate forearms to their biceps/triceps they'll look big when the arm aren't flexed (all these pictures). Thing is though having bigger forearms (grip strength) is probably a hell of alot more important when it comes to swinging a sword or carrying a shield than being to bicep curl 200lbs.

    Also lol at all the nitpicking... seriously? You forgot to mention that vanilla human didn't have gyno, yet over the course of wod's development (I guess he ran a cycle) got it. He also seemed to fix his posture too... guess they should change it back and make him perma shrugging.


    6 packs are genetics, you can't create or shape muscle bellies, just add more too them. I don't really understand what you mean by the nightelves having abs inside of abs... since really it looks pretty ordinary.

    and lulz at the thigh gap problem for draenei and human males... srsly? They don't have what most people would consider a thigh gap (ankles together, and a gap) It's pretty damn easy even if you have well developed legs to stand with feet shoulder width apart and have a thigh gap. It takes an absolute shit ton of mass to have to walk like a penguin.
    Obviously the vanilla models are of such poor quality that they are beyond any kind of discussion. We're talking about what can, and should, be changed.

    Six abs are genetics you say? Well I'm quite sure every human (and Draenei) has six abs. After all, they currently have six abs. Such strange genetics that suddenly two abs would disappear. Does that happen often, abs disappearing out of nowhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    If this is how the rest of the OP goes, I'd rather not waste my time on such pointlessly trivial things. I don't know about everyone else but I don't play WoW for its realism.
    Thank you for informing everyone about the fact that you did not read the thread and you do not feel like contributing in a constructive manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nalira View Post
    The last time I saw one of my characters in his/her underwear was when I deleted it and sold all its equipment. The last character I deleted was in WotLk.
    How relevant to what is being discussed, here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abstieg View Post
    Warcraft anatomy =/= real life anatomy. It's that simple.
    How come the anatomy changes mid-game? Is that also part of the WoW's universe? Disappearing abs and proportions suddenly altering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pr0ev0lution View Post
    honestly how often to you strip your character down and zoom into their abs for this to be an issue.
    The fact you are not bothered by this does not mean no-one is bothered by this.

    Have all of you guys considered that people play on roleplay servers, and as such are not constantly covered in all manner of armour, but also wear clothes that clearly show their proportions? Or people that simply want their character models to make sense, and be proportionate?

  20. #20
    why are we still trying to rationalize things in world of warcraft? the game mails you dragons!!!! and theres a bunch of bipedal bovines shooting lightning bolts out of there hands, this game makes no sense and that is absolutely ok with me.

    stop trying to fit things into the category of realistic when this game suspends anything that resembles reality
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    heat ≠ light
    it...i....what?

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