Thread: WOD Feral PvP

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  1. #41
    The Patient
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    I have to say that having now played quite a lot of Feral PvP in the beta now, the spec is stronger than I first thought. I haven't really noticed the loss of Barkskin, the double SI charge seems more than sufficient. Due to the changes in dmg/HP ratio you don't seem to get quite so annihilated during stunlocks. That being said I do worry that could become a problem as damage starts to scale...

    The feral self-healing seems pretty insane though. With Ysera's gift, passive 20% increase in healing, HT on PS procs, keeping rejuv up at all times in cat form, I find I can mitigate a lot of damage through healing. Also Glyph of Nine Lives is a must for PvP.

    The main issue I have at the moment is recovering from those 'oh shit' burst moments. If you know its coming SI is fantastic (your Chaos Bolt tickles me lolz), but when you are already behind missing Might of Ursoc hurts. I think we will have a slight change of play-style, more like strike, kite for a bit, strike, kite for a bit etc.

    As a general comment in small scale pvp melee (including feral) feels very strong versus casters, though healers are still pretty hard to burst down when played well. Melee vs melee seems ok, save the current tuning issues with the likes of warrior!

    In large scale pvp like Ashran, being melee is kinda pointless. All I could do is stand back and lazor kitty (for not a lot of damage!). If you even attempt to get close to the fight you get insta-gibbed or just die from the mass AOE spam.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Maekito View Post

    The feral self-healing seems pretty insane though. With Ysera's gift, passive 20% increase in healing, HT on PS procs, keeping rejuv up at all times in cat form, I find I can mitigate a lot of damage through healing. Also Glyph of Nine Lives is a must for PvP.
    Don't forget those two glyphs are mutually exclusive, so you'd only have one of those available. Either more healing incoming or a flat dr %.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    Don't forget those two glyphs are mutually exclusive, so you'd only have one of those available. Either more healing incoming or a flat dr %.
    I wasn't referring to the healing glyph, but the healing perk.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Maekito View Post
    I wasn't referring to the healing glyph, but the healing perk.
    Ah yes, the 20% increased healing touch. Our heals do look strong come WoD and I'm sure the numbers will be adjusted. As you pointed out we have the 20% HT perk and you can also run a DoC build (+20% HT & Rejuv) in addition to Glyph of Cat form and it looks like a good part of our 'mitigation' will be to keep ourselves topped off. If we look really strong I wonder if they will further nerf our DR cooldowns instead of toning down heals (where the latter would be ideal).
    Wasn't Ret designed around self-heals as a form of mitigation? And look how poorly they fared in pvp due to having only one dr/immunity cd and being susceptible to focus fire.

  5. #45
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    Glyph of Cat Form is nice when combined with the other healing benefits, but I still think Glyph of Nines Lives will win in almost all situations. Imo a 10% damage reduction is always going to be better than +20% healing.

    At the moment it seems our strength in PvP is very much mitigating sustained damage. In fights against casters/rogues/hunters I am finding it pretty easy to keep topping my HP up, the more bursty classes are a little tricky at the moment. Warriors damage is bugged so they don't count, but damn retri's and DKs are tough to deal with. I imagine locks and mages could become tough too but at the moment they are too easy to shut down.

  6. #46
    From the latest notes:

    Tiger’s Fury is now usable during Berserk.

  7. #47
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    Its good news, but it doesn't really change much. Generally Tiger's Fury would get used immediately before Berserk anyway for the damage buff. That being said we will now have more energy to burn during the berserk phase.

  8. #48
    The current build for ferals in WoD is somewhat hard to keep track of without playing. Can i ask if any beta players or really theory crafters would care to give their input as to how we approach setting up damage as a feral in WoD?.

    I'm asking because after looking at the guide on wowhead to druid changes, with the removal of ravage, and the change of shred to not requiring us to be behind our targets, does that mean essentially we just dump mangle from our bars and use only shred,rake and then either rip/FB/maim?

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Axislip View Post
    The current build for ferals in WoD is somewhat hard to keep track of without playing. Can i ask if any beta players or really theory crafters would care to give their input as to how we approach setting up damage as a feral in WoD?.

    I'm asking because after looking at the guide on wowhead to druid changes, with the removal of ravage, and the change of shred to not requiring us to be behind our targets, does that mean essentially we just dump mangle from our bars and use only shred,rake and then either rip/FB/maim?
    Mangle is gone for Cat. Shred and Ravage are one with Ravage's 80% increased Crit, yada yada. Rake and pounce are one with a stun from stealth.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by FeralSynapse View Post
    Mangle is gone for Cat. Shred and Ravage are one with Ravage's 80% increased Crit, yada yada. Rake and pounce are one with a stun from stealth.
    cheers for the quick response bud, all that sounds fantastic, all this couple with the new talent looks great

  11. #51
    I didn't want to post a new thread for this since the title is accurate. I'm incredibly impatient for the number tuning stage, but I think that is some time away considering that melee vs caster hasn't been addressed on the beta yet. Given that caster mobility (and instant casts - thank goodness) was greatly reduced, melee mobility & gap closers will be next in line.

    This obviously doesn't bode well for Feral given that we're designed as a highly mobile spec. So, what does everyone think will happen? Obviously 'something's gotta give'. If we retain our mobility we'll lose damage or cc (which we only realistically have via the Claws of Shirvallah talent). I think the removal of our 2pc speed bonus (something i'm still lamenting about) is part of this change, but will they reduce our damage at the risk of nerfing us in PVE?

    I'd honestly rather not lose any damage, but I'd love to keep the iconic Feral mobility as well.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    I'd honestly rather not lose any damage, but I'd love to keep the iconic Feral mobility as well.
    I guess I am just old school. But to me, the iconic feel of feral died a long time ago. In pre-vanilla and vanilla, it was about shifting forms and dealing spike damage while juggling healing and negation by using all of our forms. I didn't watch timers, I watch the enemy and countered based on what they were going to do. In BC it started to become more about doing damage in both bear and cat, still juggling abilities and not a HUGE focus on bleeds and mobility. Mangle was beyond broken at that time.

    Now it is about watching timers and bars, mobility/juke while you wait for those to get low and refresh them. Since vanilla I have seen Blizzard change classes so far beyond what I would imagine... I have no faith that they would ever "keep" a class the same because the community thinks it should feel a specific way.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    I didn't want to post a new thread for this since the title is accurate. I'm incredibly impatient for the number tuning stage, but I think that is some time away considering that melee vs caster hasn't been addressed on the beta yet. Given that caster mobility (and instant casts - thank goodness) was greatly reduced, melee mobility & gap closers will be next in line.
    I think the hybrid healing will be looked at, as well. While I've been mostly involved with world PvP (saving my fellow lowbies from the ravages of lvl 100's of the opposing faction!), hybrid healing is way too strong in some cases. I hate to say this, but I don't have faith that any changes in this department won't trickle into PvE since it's likely meant for solo recovery in a PvE environment. Half-expecting a non-healer spec PvP-triggered passive that cuts healing done in half... that's a lot of hyphens, so it must be scary!

    Anyways, regarding your query, I think melee mobility will definitely be looked at next. I'm not too concerned about Ferals, because there still is a decent amount of setup time involved compared to other melee classes that are near/full damage output the second they're in your face. Without Feral mobility, kittens are a non-threat for much longer than other melee classes in terms of damage pressure, especially if setup is required again. Granted Ferals are getting a lot of QoL changes that make setup time better, but that doesn't mean setup time isn't there or still longer than other melee classes.

    And yes, I'd rather see a damage numbers pass prior to an ability pruning such as this, since who cares if a melee is in your face non-stop if they can't do damage to you. Plus dungeon/raid testing as a Feral makes me sad.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Photonic View Post
    I guess I am just old school. But to me, the iconic feel of feral died a long time ago. In pre-vanilla and vanilla, it was about shifting forms and dealing spike damage while juggling healing and negation by using all of our forms. I didn't watch timers, I watch the enemy and countered based on what they were going to do. In BC it started to become more about doing damage in both bear and cat, still juggling abilities and not a HUGE focus on bleeds and mobility. Mangle was beyond broken at that time.

    Now it is about watching timers and bars, mobility/juke while you wait for those to get low and refresh them. Since vanilla I have seen Blizzard change classes so far beyond what I would imagine... I have no faith that they would ever "keep" a class the same because the community thinks it should feel a specific way.
    I understand what you mean, and I too have played since/before vanilla. At the very least mobility and shapeshifting is the one thing we've always had. Seeing some of the questionable pruning I share your concerns about them 'keeping' a class true to it's original concept, but I guess I am still hopeful given enough feedback.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    I think the hybrid healing will be looked at, as well. While I've been mostly involved with world PvP (saving my fellow lowbies from the ravages of lvl 100's of the opposing faction!), hybrid healing is way too strong in some cases. I hate to say this, but I don't have faith that any changes in this department won't trickle into PvE since it's likely meant for solo recovery in a PvE environment. Half-expecting a non-healer spec PvP-triggered passive that cuts healing done in half... that's a lot of hyphens, so it must be scary!

    Anyways, regarding your query, I think melee mobility will definitely be looked at next. I'm not too concerned about Ferals, because there still is a decent amount of setup time involved compared to other melee classes that are near/full damage output the second they're in your face. Without Feral mobility, kittens are a non-threat for much longer than other melee classes in terms of damage pressure, especially if setup is required again. Granted Ferals are getting a lot of QoL changes that make setup time better, but that doesn't mean setup time isn't there or still longer than other melee classes.

    And yes, I'd rather see a damage numbers pass prior to an ability pruning such as this, since who cares if a melee is in your face non-stop if they can't do damage to you. Plus dungeon/raid testing as a Feral makes me sad.
    Our healing is definitely overtuned from what beta testers say. I feel like all the Feral balancing problems can be achieved with numbers at this point so that our mobility doesn't have to suffer. Mechanics-wise I think we're pretty much done with the latest Claws talent offering a viable pvp-centric option to the mix.

  15. #55
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    I don't think that many changes need to be made to Feral in the PvP balance pass. My opinion is:

    - Nerf self-healing a bit
    - Buff damage
    - Give stun survival

    Otherwise we appear to be in decent shape. The main issue I find at the moment is that it takes quite a long time to kill other players (compared to other classes), so I look forward to the numbers pass.

    I don't see our mobility as much of an issue as it is balanced around our very weak CC.

  16. #56
    Pit Lord MrApple's Avatar
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    Ive reported a few bugs so far. One being that sometimes when opening with rake from stealth you spend
    around 85-90 energy on that rake instead of the 35 it costs. Pretty devastating for an opener.

    First i thought it might be the glyph of savage roar that grants a 5cp SR which costs 25 energy but
    that only adds up to 60 energy total. And it shouldnt cost any energy imo since its a glyph that grants a free SR.

    Still waiting for the Savagery glyph to be usable for everyone on lvl 100 pvp realm too.
    It works fine on other realms but not where its needed the most :/

    Anyways.. the more bugs that gets reported, the better.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Maekito View Post
    I don't think that many changes need to be made to Feral in the PvP balance pass. My opinion is:

    - Nerf self-healing a bit
    - Buff damage
    - Give stun survival

    Otherwise we appear to be in decent shape. The main issue I find at the moment is that it takes quite a long time to kill other players (compared to other classes), so I look forward to the numbers pass.

    I don't see our mobility as much of an issue as it is balanced around our very weak CC.
    I agree with all these points after having played feral in skirmishes myself a couple of days now.
    Damage is really low compared to other classes (or their damage is really high, who knows).
    Last edited by MrApple; 2014-07-29 at 08:30 AM.
    Epic!

  17. #57
    I think some classes' damage needs to be brought down first, warriors for e.g. are obscenely overpowered right now.

  18. #58
    Pit Lord MrApple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    I think some classes' damage needs to be brought down first, warriors for e.g. are obscenely overpowered right now.
    Created a warrior to see what the hype was all about.

    Arms Warrior with sudden death right now is CS, MS, Rend and wait for procs and then pop cds and win.

    Really easy, boring and disturbing gameplay if you ask me.
    Epic!

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by MrApple View Post
    Created a warrior to see what the hype was all about.

    Arms Warrior with sudden death right now is CS, MS, Rend and wait for procs and then pop cds and win.

    Really easy, boring and disturbing gameplay if you ask me.
    Yeah, some people are saying that they can't even test pvp right now because so many people are mucking around on Warriors making other classes unplayable. Anyway, keeping on topic, I do hope that numbers are adjusted soon so that we can give proper feedback based on Feral. Overall I think we're looking good given they don't mess with our mobility or damage too much and bring healing down in line for us and across the board as well. I'm actually looking forward to Feral in WoD if they can only revert that all-in-one travel form mess.

  20. #60
    Pit Lord MrApple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    Yeah, some people are saying that they can't even test pvp right now because so many people are mucking around on Warriors making other classes unplayable. Anyway, keeping on topic, I do hope that numbers are adjusted soon so that we can give proper feedback based on Feral. Overall I think we're looking good given they don't mess with our mobility or damage too much and bring healing down in line for us and across the board as well. I'm actually looking forward to Feral in WoD if they can only revert that all-in-one travel form mess.
    Yeah.. also i just realized that i dont have to use /cancelform anymore because there will be no more hibernate or scare beast in wod
    Epic!

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