1. #3441
    It's trying to force change under the guise of discrimination. I'm seeing all too many pro-equality arguments labeling the current story as being sexist, when there honestly hasn't been anything overtly discriminatory other than the bad writing that comes as a result of the Superhero nature of the story.

  2. #3442
    Feminism not even once
    there will never be equality between both genders there will be always one side which dominates that sector more than the other.
    Dunno why is it so hard to understand,world was much better place when man/woman knew their place.
    Besides why do feminists even care if female characters are badly represented in wow,afaik most girls dont even play video games and from those who do most dont give a chit about lore ,heck most of them play male chars with male names just so they can avoid white knights(except for attention whores obviously)

    Same goes for pushing gay agenda even further,why is it needed so much really not that i have anything against gay people,but advertise their sexuality for every1 is just messed up even more when there are kids playing the game.Not that media/music/movies are pushing gays too much ,now video games also ?

  3. #3443
    Couples I remember:

    Tyrande + Malfurion.

    Aggra + Thrall.


    Out of a bazillion NPCs. It's THAT important.

  4. #3444
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Yes but as soon as you have a faction of friendly female pacifists who are seeking to heal the world, they're going to be criticized for not being strong and independent. Does anyone care about Mylune protecting the animals of Hyjal?

    And I've given example of many factions lead by females. Ebonlocke and Darkshire's Night Watch, the entirity of Deepholm under Therazane, and the Mag'har under Greatmother Geyah. Do they not count towards this?
    Putting more female pacifists into the game is essentially more stereotyping. Why can't there be a female Warlord in WOD? Make her an excellent leader who isn't in charge simply because her husband died. Make her a great Warrior who isn't impulsive, weak or in need of rescuing.

    Therazane starts out as our enemy and continues to call us names even though we save Deepholm, kill her son for her and do her boring dailies. All she ever does is sit there wanting us to leave and her (sons) do all the fighting. She's not a good example of a stereotype free character.

    Greatmother Geyah is a wonderful lore character, but we only see her in Nagrand. Plus, she doesn't really move to far away from a stereotype as she asks us to forge for nuts and berries, then dies after meeting Thrall. Seeing her in a role as a great Orc leader in WOD would be a good thing.

    Althea Ebonlocke of Darkshire's Night Watch is a decent character diversity wise. She's a leader and fighter. She still doesn't make up for the numerous female Wow characters that are crazy, weak, in need of rescuing etc.. It's also sad that one must go all the way to Darkshore to see a fairly sterotype free female character.

  5. #3445
    I like how sexuality is the hot topic right now, but religious orientation isn't.

    "Why aren't there Christians in WoW?!" "Why aren't there more atheists in WoW, who don't believe in the Titans?"

    This garbage needs to stop. Listen, the storytellers are telling a story. It may include some of these elements, it may not. If something SERVES THE STORY then it makes its way into characterization... otherwise, no. Stop trying to shoehorn everything into a fantasy world that is NOT OUR OWN REALITY.

    Would you do this to Game of Thrones? "There aren't enough open homosexuals in Westeros." "That's because they were beheaded, it isn't looked upon fondly." GASP. A fantasy world government or society that doesn't tolerate EVERYONE. Shock!

  6. #3446
    Quote Originally Posted by adorich View Post
    Putting more female pacifists into the game is essentially more stereotyping. Why can't there be a female Warlord in WOD? Make her an excellent leader who isn't in charge simply because her husband died. Make her a great Warrior who isn't impulsive, weak or in need of rescuing.
    Look up Rulkan.

    Therazane starts out as our enemy and continues to call us names even though we save Deepholm, kill her son for her and do her boring dailies. All she ever does is sit there wanting us to leave and her (sons) do all the fighting. She's not a good example of a stereotype free character.
    Can you point me to some stereotype free characters in WoW, male or female? I think this is one of the core problems here. Most people look at the subject and apply it to the female characters, yet don't realize the entire story has been like this since Warcraft 1. There is no infallible male character either. If Varian was the High Queen, we would be complaining about how she failed by letting Garrosh live and not listening to her advisors to kill him.

    Greatmother Geyah is a wonderful lore character, but we only see her in Nagrand. Plus, she doesn't really move to far away from a stereotype as she asks us to forge for nuts and berries, then dies after meeting Thrall. Seeing her in a role as a great Orc leader in WOD would be a good thing.

    Althea Ebonlocke of Darkshire's Night Watch is a decent character diversity wise. She's a leader and fighter. She still doesn't make up for the numerous female Wow characters that are crazy, weak, in need of rescuing etc.. It's also sad that one must go all the way to Darkshore to see a fairly sterotype free female character.
    And isn't that the problem? The characters we have that are good aren't going to excuse the crazies. So what is the solution? Ask for new well written females that still won't excuse the crazies? I hope you really do understand that the core problem of the argument will not go away until people realize that the problem is not about female characters, but the entire writing style of Warcraft itself. This universe was built on stereotypes.

    Pick any Male character that is a greatest example of a character in WoW. Now imagine them as females. Are they infallible to criticisms?
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2014-07-22 at 05:42 AM.

  7. #3447
    Diversity for the sake of diversity is pushing an agenda. Diversity because it fits the story is a stereotype. Diversity for no reason at all is pointless.

    People need to stop being social justice warriors and crusading against Blizzard or any video game company. Minority/Female inclusion is fundamentally an issue with society, and telling WoW to make a gay trans heroine isn't going to magically fix all the problems. WoW is not the correct platform to change this perception, nor is it some sort of icon to hate.
    Last edited by Larynx; 2014-07-22 at 05:31 AM.
    WoD updated Disc Priest Guide http://i.imgur.com/eOlZz9N.png

  8. #3448
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    People are trying to force the writers into catering for their own minority, that is exactly what is happening here.
    Don't bother explaining it to them. As he's already pointed out adeptly, it'll just bounce right off anyway...

  9. #3449
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiev View Post
    HOW THE EFF do you know that none of those characters they wrote are gay?

    No, really. Tell me how you can tell. Because as far as I know, said characters don't go around proclaiming their sexuality like it's some sort of ID card in a totalitarian government. It's an information that isn't relevant to gameplay, story or the events unfolding around azeroth, hence, they don't go out of their way to include it.

    "We named him DRANOSH. It means heart of Draenor in Orcish. Also, he's gay".
    You're forgetting that this isn't the real world. If we don't know any characters are gay then it's because the writer wrote it in such a way that there are no such characters, not because the characters just happened to be keeping quiet about it. I think it's really sad that you can't think of any way to introduce a character's sexuality aside from an obvious and expositional statement.
    Disclaimer: No I'm not Alliance. I reserve the right to bat for both factions thank you very much.


  10. #3450
    After 10+ years I think we've expended all of the major lore, I'm probably wrong but in any case I could care less if the narrative of the expansions quests and what not are relevant. I just want a fairly interesting story narrative. Yes there should be more dominant female characters and yes homosexual characters should exist. But like I said who actually cares? These are issues that should be addressed in a more meaningful way in the real world, it is a videogame, for a largely young male audience. Honestly I see the letter as an attempt to stir up a frenzy and to do nothing but provoke a response. Let's talk about the game. Let's work on gameplay and other issues. Issues that matter in a VIDEOGAME. Honestly I think this dribble is borderline pathetic in an alternate fantasy universe. But of course thanks to our modern society we're bound to see changes here, who gives hoot if PvP is still broken after 10 years or the in-game community is now just a bunch of solo carrot on a stick driven players. If this joker wants to actually change something maybe he should go protest in the deep south, show some courage don't rage at a videogame. K thx.
    Last edited by Taneo; 2014-07-22 at 06:30 AM.
    "Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in!"

  11. #3451
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    It's trying to force change under the guise of discrimination. I'm seeing all too many pro-equality arguments labeling the current story as being sexist, when there honestly hasn't been anything overtly discriminatory other than the bad writing that comes as a result of the Superhero nature of the story.
    Why does something have to be overtly discriminatory for it to be a problem? The fact that you feel the need to put that word in suggests that you know that there is sexism there under the surface. That's often the more insidious kind, as it goes unnoticed by many whilst it seeds it's influence

    For the record I'd don't have any personal problem with the Hearthstone stuff - so long as jokes are made in good faith I don't really have a problem. But I can see why people are upset. It's not as though Blizzard have any done anything to earn people's trusts that a joke is made in good faith.
    Disclaimer: No I'm not Alliance. I reserve the right to bat for both factions thank you very much.


  12. #3452
    I really don't buy into the idea that a female character is suddenly terrible just because they feel the need to prove themselves to another character who just happens to be male. As other posters have pointed out throughout this very thread there's a large number of powerful and influential female characters present in the game's lore. I'd agree that many of them need to be used more often, though.

  13. #3453
    Quote Originally Posted by Caesius Baelthar View Post
    I really don't buy into the idea that a female character is suddenly terrible just because they feel the need to prove themselves to another character who just happens to be male. As other posters have pointed out throughout this very thread there's a large number of powerful and influential female characters present in the game's lore. I'd agree that many of them need to be used more often, though.
    It's not about the character's supposed influence in the lore. Tyrande is supposedly the leader of one of (if not the) most powerful forces in the Alliance. It doesn't stop her from being terribly written and subservient to Malfurion and Varian in the plot.
    Disclaimer: No I'm not Alliance. I reserve the right to bat for both factions thank you very much.


  14. #3454
    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    It's not about the character's supposed influence in the lore. Tyrande is supposedly the leader of one of (if not the) most powerful forces in the Alliance. It doesn't stop her from being terribly written and subservient to Malfurion and Varian in the plot.
    Yeah, though the exact same thing happens to many male characters who are made to be subservient to the likes of Varian and Malfurion. It's not to do with their gender but rather the obsession the writers have with shoving the likes of Varian into every major event that they can. The side effect of that is many interesting characters being unable to stand on their own two feet.

  15. #3455
    Quote Originally Posted by Caesius Baelthar View Post
    Yeah, though the exact same thing happens to many male characters who are made to be subservient to the likes of Varian and Malfurion. It's not to do with their gender but rather the obsession the writers have with shoving the likes of Varian into every major event that they can. The side effect of that is many interesting characters being unable to stand on their own two feet.
    And why is it always the male characters which are constantly forced into that spotlight? Additionally I don't remember any of the male leaders being shown so explicitly subservient to Varian. We don't have Varian showing Gelbin what's what. Every major female character is narratively subservient to a male (often plural) character. Jaina and Sylvanas to Arthas, Aggra to Thrall, Tyrande to Malfurion, Jaina and Tyrande again to Varian.
    Disclaimer: No I'm not Alliance. I reserve the right to bat for both factions thank you very much.


  16. #3456
    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    Why does something have to be overtly discriminatory for it to be a problem? The fact that you feel the need to put that word in suggests that you know that there is sexism there under the surface. That's often the more insidious kind, as it goes unnoticed by many whilst it seeds it's influence
    Because the dichotomy between Male and Female characters in WoW is not very different. While the argument can be said there are no strong female characters, in the same way there are no strong male characters either. Aside from some gender-specific romance, the male and female characters are generally swappable. Gender isn't an issue as far as the story is concerned, and if you apply the criticisms used against female characters to male characters, you come out with generally the same results.

    If this is truly about equality, then what are the examples of male characters who are absolutely dominant and infallible in their role? Even leaders like Varian and Thrall are prone to massive character flaws.

    For the record I'd don't have any personal problem with the Hearthstone stuff - so long as jokes are made in good faith I don't really have a problem. But I can see why people are upset. It's not as though Blizzard have any done anything to earn people's trusts that a joke is made in good faith.
    I don't play Hearthstone, so tbh I don't understand what this is referring to. The Lady Blameux thing?
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2014-07-22 at 07:37 AM.

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