Tank Specs Are Even More Broken in PvP, Lets Remove Them

[Debased]

I've been reading the Warlords Beta PvP forum and all I see over and over again is how broken tanking specs are in PvP. I thought this issue was going to be addressed. Tanks can still take absurd damage and are about as potent as any DPS spec damage wise, and to add to all of that it looks like tank healing abilities are more potent than ever. Tanks are not fun to face in PvP, they are frustrating to fight and incredibly difficult to balance. As it stands the 2's bracket will be completely broken, 3's will be handicapped and FC's will be as unkillable as ever. Why is Blizzard so insistent that tanking has a place in PvP? Tanks are more tuned for PvE than any other spec and it has been established time and time again that Blizzard cannot balance them in PvP, even with their cute debuff. Imagine a mythic geared tank in the Arena, it will be as absurd as ever. I know firsthand the skill-cap for tanks in PvP is very minimal, that just adds to the trouble. Beta is beta. Wrong. Unless there is a tremendous change in numbers tanks will be ridiculous and you can head over to the forums to reaffirm this. I really hope we don't have to do the 20 minute tank dance fights for six months again.

[Deleted]

Didn't they state that tanks will take 25% extra damage in BGs?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Calm down Zul - were still in, oh my God! - Beta! Things are still subject to change.

[Deleted]

Yeah, here it is

[Debased]

Didn't they state that tanks will take 25% extra damage in BGs?

You do realize I mentioned it. As far as I know the buff is active on Beta. Tanks often have 50% or more of the hp of a regular spec, with similar damage and potent self-healing. But nice...

[madmanx]

"I've been reading the Warlords Beta PvP forum..... "

So to sum things up, you are complaining about something you have never experienced that is in a beta stage.

[Debased]

Calm down Zul - were still in, oh my God! - Beta! Things are still subject to change.

I heard the same thing before WOTLK. Tank specs were detrimental for two seasons, and still frustrating as hell for the others.

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"I've been reading the Warlords Beta PvP forum..... "

So to sum things up, you are complaining about something you have never experienced that is in a beta stage.

Yes, I imagine everyone on their is lieing for some ill-conceited notion.

[Wow]

Calm down Zul - were still in, oh my God! - Beta! Things are still subject to change.

Yea guys its just beta its not like they'd let anything retarded go live I mean s5, s9, s12 never happened right?

[Deleted]

Tanks can still take absurd damage and are about as potent as any DPS spec damage wise, and to add to all of that it looks like tank healing abilities are more potent than ever.

Source.

Currently, them taking damage in pvp does not increase their self healing or shield abilities. I'm not sure where you got this idea of it being a problem in pvp from.

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I've been reading the Warlords Beta PvP forum and all I see over and over again is how broken tanking specs are in PvP.

I am currently looking at the Beta pvp sub-forum. There is only one thread that's mentioning tanks in pvp and that's a thread created by a blue on the changes of tanks in pvp. Zulathar, this is pretty fishy.

[Itisamuh]

Healers have been broken for ages, yet they still exist in PvP. Good luck getting tanks taken out of PvP, now that they have that vision.

[Splatter]

I heard the same thing before WOTLK. Tank specs were detrimental for two seasons, and still frustrating as hell for the others.

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Yes, I imagine everyone on their is lieing for some ill-conceited notion.

If you had been reading the WoD forums closely you would have also noticed that the buff causing tanks to take 25% more damage was actually working in reverse and causing them to take 25% less damage. A problem noted by blizzard and in line for a fix, hopefully in the next beta build.

[Deleted]

If you had been reading the WoD forums closely you would have also noticed that the buff causing tanks to take 25% more damage was actually working in reverse and causing them to take 25% less damage. A problem noted by blizzard and in line for a fix, hopefully in the next beta build.

Source.

Hopefully this clears things up.

[iksparemarkamai]

i disagree with the op thinking they are broken. tanks still have their pve tanking stuff to absorb a lot of damage defensive cooldowns. its balanced that they take 25% more damage because other dps class don't have tank abilities. all this nonsense tanks are still going to be viable but not stacking because of pve mechanics for absorbing raid boss damage.

[Deleted]

Healers have been broken for ages, yet they still exist in PvP. Good luck getting tanks taken out of PvP, now that they have that vision.

how are healers broken? would you rather play 'who onseshots the other team first' ? because this is what you get if healers can't tank 2 dps for some time.

[Koreche]

how are healers broken? would you rather play 'who onseshots the other team first' ? because this is what you get if healers can't tank 2 dps for some time.

on live they dont oom and can insta full heal anyone and the only way to kill them is to first blow all their CDs and then get a perfect CC chain with your CDs and hope you do enough dmg before they get a .5second window to press one of their instant heals. i dont think its like this in WoD though.

[Wrathonia]

Number for tanks are currently completely out of whack. Masteries being way too powerful or bugged numbers. They simply aren't working like they should. Of course that will fuck up pvp balance. Wait until some numbers passes go through before getting judgmental. Report bugs or things you see wrong and if things aren't fixed when raids are being tested, THEN you can worry. Until then, you are making a big fuss over numbers that are far from being final.

[Deleted]

You should consider that in their current state they are pretty much invincible in PvE too, even without a healer. I guess being broken (in the overpowered way) in PvE has effects on PvP too.

[Raugnaut]

Once this is all balanced...

A) Tanks will take 25% more damage then dps.
B) Tanks will deal 25% LESS damage then DPS can. (The dps numbers for tanks will be about 75% of a dps's dps).

A- Essentially cancels out the baseline 25% damage reduction most tanks have, which means that casters essentially do the same amount of damage against a tank as they do against dps. For some tanks, they will do MORE damage against them compared to damaging a dps.
Of course, one may bring up the high amount of physical mitigation that tanks have. My counterpoint is that for ALL melee, at least 30% of their overall damage ignores armor. Warriors and Smash, Rogues and Poisons, Paladins and Holy damage, DKs and all their shadow/frost damage, Feral and bleeds, Enhance and elemental damage, Monks and Tiger's Palm, and Hunters and all their non-physical damage sources. So, for melee dps, the amount of extra armor on a tank will only result in ~10% less damage taken, with the tank's active mitigation being a larger pain then that. Melee won't have it easy against Tanks, but it won't be at the point of tanks stomping on melee. Casters will likely shit on tanks in PvP. Melee will find great pvp tanks a challenge to kill, but with good usage of self healing, kiting, ect, will be able to down them.

As for B- Tanks dealing 25% less damage then dps makes their higher health pool generally equal. As it stands, Warriors and Paladins will only have a moderate, ~20%, more health then DPS. Monks will have 40% more health, and then Druid and DK tanks, they could easily have more then 100% of a dps's health.

So, both Prot specs will likely be "weak" in PvP. Monks will be the more "neutral" spot in PvP, and their preformance should be balanced- fighting against a BrM will be about on par as fighting against any dps spec. Druids and DKs, however... Both specs will have enormous health pools, and both will have a high amount of self healing. Guardian will likely remain the FC king for the entirety of WoD, and Blood will likely become a commonly seen annoyance in arenas and random BGs.

Also, the biggest thing- Tanks will pretty much be unable to kill a healer, and vice-versa. A good dps of any spec can kill any healer, even though it might take an eternity to do so. Tanks will have NO chance of ever killing healers.

[pinkz]

roll your prot war in gladiator stance and you do not take 25% more damage in PVP

Tanks now take 25% additional damage while engaged in PvP combat." Does this count Protection warriors in Glad stance too.
Currently, no. It's something we could do if needbe, but don't think it's needed currently. (Celestalon)

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Once this is all balanced...

A) Tanks will take 25% more damage then dps.
B) Tanks will deal 25% LESS damage then DPS can. (The dps numbers for tanks will be about 75% of a dps's dps).

A- Essentially cancels out the baseline 25% damage reduction most tanks have, which means that casters essentially do the same amount of damage against a tank as they do against dps. For some tanks, they will do MORE damage against them compared to damaging a dps.
Of course, one may bring up the high amount of physical mitigation that tanks have. My counterpoint is that for ALL melee, at least 30% of their overall damage ignores armor. Warriors and Smash, Rogues and Poisons, Paladins and Holy damage, DKs and all their shadow/frost damage, Feral and bleeds, Enhance and elemental damage, Monks and Tiger's Palm, and Hunters and all their non-physical damage sources. So, for melee dps, the amount of extra armor on a tank will only result in ~10% less damage taken, with the tank's active mitigation being a larger pain then that. Melee won't have it easy against Tanks, but it won't be at the point of tanks stomping on melee. Casters will likely shit on tanks in PvP. Melee will find great pvp tanks a challenge to kill, but with good usage of self healing, kiting, ect, will be able to down them.

As for B- Tanks dealing 25% less damage then dps makes their higher health pool generally equal. As it stands, Warriors and Paladins will only have a moderate, ~20%, more health then DPS. Monks will have 40% more health, and then Druid and DK tanks, they could easily have more then 100% of a dps's health.

So, both Prot specs will likely be "weak" in PvP. Monks will be the more "neutral" spot in PvP, and their preformance should be balanced- fighting against a BrM will be about on par as fighting against any dps spec. Druids and DKs, however... Both specs will have enormous health pools, and both will have a high amount of self healing. Guardian will likely remain the FC king for the entirety of WoD, and Blood will likely become a commonly seen annoyance in arenas and random BGs.

Also, the biggest thing- Tanks will pretty much be unable to kill a healer, and vice-versa. A good dps of any spec can kill any healer, even though it might take an eternity to do so. Tanks will have NO chance of ever killing healers.

currently my disco priest which i pug alot and play offensive has really no issues with DPS along with using PW reflect 70%, inner armor, and PW absorb 20% heal glyph's. there are many BGs where i'm in top 4 in DPS and top 2 in healing. in 1 vs 1 pvp in BGs i have solo wiped shadow priests along with numerous other DPS classes with ease. rogues give me a issues at the start of a fight, but since they can't finish me off i lol-kite them down. prot wars i eventually burn thru their second wind. guardian druids i can't kill, but they can't kill me.

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