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  1. #1
    High Overlord Grinia's Avatar
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    [Resto] Warlords of Draenor Alpha: Build 18379

    Always remember


    That being said, the Lifebloom tooltip changed.

    Old:
    This effect can stack up to 3 times on the same target. Duration refreshed each time you cast Healing Touch or Regrowth on the target. Lifebloom can be active only on one target at a time, but all applications move to the new target when the target is changed if more than 2 sec duration remains.

    New:
    Duration refreshed by casting Regrowth or Healing Touch on the target. Lifebloom can be active only on one target at a time.


    Tl;dr
    All mentions of multiple stacks were removed.

  2. #2
    Lifebloom without stacks will be weird if they keep the blooming mechanic on it, because unless the target is at full HP, you are probably going to want to refrain from extending the HoT and just let it expire and bloom before recasting it. That sounds counterintuitive, given that you won't be able to cast any direct heals on that target without refreshing the duration of Lifebloom.

    Some other changes that appear to be made
    -Wild Mushroom: Bloom seems to be removed as an ability completely. The tooltip now only mentions the Efflo portion, so maybe they decided to cull that as part of ability pruning?
    -It appears they made the Glyph of Sprouting Mushroom behavior the default for Efflo. It's not clear if there will be a minor glyph put in to still target it on a player (I don't know why you would want to though).
    -Barkskin appears to be Guardian only now
    -Might of Ursoc appears to be Guardian only
    -Survival Instincts now has 2 charges

  3. #3
    It'll be very weird having lifebloom not stack anymore. I know it's actually a really nice buff for us, but LB stacking was arguably an iconic part of our class.
    ಠ_ಠ

  4. #4
    I don't really care about the stacking mechanic, but I don't like the direction this is going. The stacks were there to make sure we don't drop LB too often, with the change now it would be optimal to let it bloom most of the time. This would make Glyph of Blooming mandatory if it stays like it is today (probably won't), but it would be bad if they didn't offer some way to opt out of LB refreshing.

    Blooming the shroom is currently overpowered for stacked fights, so they can either drastically reduce the healing, or remove it altogehther. I think I'll be fine with this, as long as other healers also lose their instant AoE healing abilities (like Divine Star).

  5. #5
    If the bloom got removed completely that's probably because druids were currently the best spread and stacked healers with fully charged mushrooms and perma efflorescence that's even more buffed than live. Divine star is not instant anymore anyway plus it has diminishing returns and travel time.
    Isheria - Method - Twisting Nether

  6. #6
    i'd rather they keep their ST heals and the actual heals which are the problem (WG, Rejuv, Efflo) get nerfed.

    but yes isheria is right: on alpha druids would be competing with MWs, Holy Priests and Shamans and they (druids) were simply better

  7. #7
    I think that this is a solid change. The three stacks is currently meaningless, I stack it on the tank once and it gets refreshed through CC procs/sage mender procs.

    It will be a pretty dramatic buff for pvp (good luck purging a triple strength bloom every GCD with glyph), and less punitive if you mess it up through switching.

    I disagree that it will be optimal to let it bloom - it will be a big bonus if you have it glyphed and the target drops low at the precise moment that it expires, but in pve I would much rather keep it as what is essentially a damage smoothing buffer to cover our stronger casted heals.

    ToL will be absolutely insane...

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    Lifebloom without stacks will be weird if they keep the blooming mechanic on it, because unless the target is at full HP, you are probably going to want to refrain from extending the HoT and just let it expire and bloom before recasting it. That sounds counterintuitive, given that you won't be able to cast any direct heals on that target without refreshing the duration of Lifebloom.
    We had a mandatory lifebloom glyph for most of MoP, we can cope with a mandatory glyph for WoD. Though I doubt wether they really thought this change trough. Doubt that they will leave Tree of Life as it is with that change.

    Some other changes that appear to be made
    -Wild Mushroom: Bloom seems to be removed as an ability completely. The tooltip now only mentions the Efflo portion, so maybe they decided to cull that as part of ability pruning?
    They probably thought it to be not needed given the healing design goals for WoD, though I'm yet to be convinced that encounter design can actually keep up to those changes.

    -It appears they made the Glyph of Sprouting Mushroom behavior the default for Efflo. It's not clear if there will be a minor glyph put in to still target it on a player (I don't know why you would want to though).
    Where did you see that? It's still "target's ally location". Also to give you a reason for targetting circle: If players spread out, you can cover more by placing it in between them.


    Also, it's sad, that they still didn't decide to alter rampant growth. What's the sense of a target restricted non-cd instant heal, if manawise you cannot afford to cast it more than once within a CD anyway. Not that you would need to cast it more than once within 15 seconds anyway, at least if they meet their design goal target for heals, i.e. no need to burst back to full health, HoTs have time to heal. Or to put it differently, how often did you actually need to bring back up someone from almost zero to full in the current design? Not more than once within 15 seconds I'd say, should be significantly less than that in WoD. The only saving grace this talent had was the interaction with SotF, but that's gone with the increased mana cost.

  9. #9
    On the contrary, I think the LB change was partially because of ToL. With the OoC nerf, ToL was also nerfed pretty badly, losing its "mana cd" versatility with free instant regrowths, essentially making LB also pointless in ToL. Now with single stack LBs, they actually become useful again in ToL, but I personally will still miss the previous version.
    Fangthorn <Temerity> Windrunner - US

    US #15 @ 3 Days - 12 Hours / Week

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sprucelee View Post
    On the contrary, I think the LB change was partially because of ToL. With the OoC nerf, ToL was also nerfed pretty badly, losing its "mana cd" versatility with free instant regrowths, essentially making LB also pointless in ToL. Now with single stack LBs, they actually become useful again in ToL, but I personally will still miss the previous version.
    What nerf to OoC are you talking about? I don't remember any major change regarding it or ToL for WoD (not including the talent that makes it last 5 secs)

    Edit: Oh you mean this? "Omen of Clarity got changed to not trigger more often with Tree of Life; it was too strong in our new healing model. "

    Are you sure that isn't just a clarification? I could have sworn that was already the case on live (thought there was testing or a blue post way back in early MoP saying that ToL Lifebloom's only had like 1/4 the normal proc chance for OoC to make up for the fact that you could spam them?). But I could be wrong...

    Even if its a new change for OoC, that would have been minor loss compared to getting free "triple strength" LB's at 1 gcd a pop. Makes ToL talent an even more attractive throughput option than it already is.
    Last edited by Keiyra; 2014-06-11 at 06:43 PM.

  11. #11
    So if we assume that a 1 stack lifebloom is now full strength, does this not make ToL extremely powerful? Maybe someone overlooked this when tweaking spells?
    Fail to prepare. Prepare to fail.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    What nerf to OoC are you talking about? I don't remember any major change regarding it or ToL for WoD (not including the talent that makes it last 5 secs)

    Edit: Oh you mean this? "Omen of Clarity got changed to not trigger more often with Tree of Life; it was too strong in our new healing model. "

    Are you sure that isn't just a clarification? I could have sworn that was already the case on live (thought there was testing or a blue post way back in early MoP saying that ToL Lifebloom's only had like 1/4 the normal proc chance for OoC to make up for the fact that you could spam them?). But I could be wrong...

    Even if its a new change for OoC, that would have been minor loss compared to getting free "triple strength" LB's at 1 gcd a pop. Makes ToL talent an even more attractive throughput option than it already is.
    OoC now only procs from the last LB applied, it was not just a tool-tip change. It was a big nerf to ToL, as multiple LB were typically only ever used to proc OoC and get free regrowths.

    It was obviously changed due to the new 100 talent, this brings it back some. I am guessing LB will go up in cost, it will be strong, but the "mana cd" aspect will be lost IMO. I liked the versatility, that is what I will miss.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gairai View Post
    So if we assume that a 1 stack lifebloom is now full strength, does this not make ToL extremely powerful? Maybe someone overlooked this when tweaking spells?
    But instant and mostly free regrowth spam was not? Currently you just apply 5-6 LBs and spam away. I think people overestimate LB.
    Fangthorn <Temerity> Windrunner - US

    US #15 @ 3 Days - 12 Hours / Week

  13. #13
    I think people overestimate LB.
    Considering they have said that they want most of the raid to not be topped 100% of the time, a strong and cheap HoT effect followed by a large direct heal sounds excellent to me. I think you under estimate lifebloom.
    Fail to prepare. Prepare to fail.

  14. #14
    ToL is a CD, it's strong but so are a lot of CDs... there's no issue. the problem with resto druid is Wild Mushroom + WG currently. maybe genesis w/ double rejuvs too but i'm not sure.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Gairai View Post
    Considering they have said that they want most of the raid to not be topped 100% of the time, a strong and cheap HoT effect followed by a large direct heal sounds excellent to me. I think you under estimate lifebloom.
    I already said it would be strong. That was my whole point, this change corrects a previous nerf (in terms of power) as well as making a spell modified by ToL useful again during the CD. Before this change, LB would have been pretty useless during ToL. But it makes it different in terms of a "mana CD", which is somewhat of a bummer as it was really versatile and powerful early in expansions when mana is a bigger concern.

    When I said overestimate, it was in reference to comments like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gairai View Post
    So if we assume that a 1 stack lifebloom is now full strength, does this not make ToL extremely powerful? Maybe someone overlooked this when tweaking spells?
    Which makes me think you have little experience with using the current iteration of ToL effectively, particularly when it mattered early in expansions. If you had, you would realize that the separation between using single stack LBs to proc free instant regrowths (the current version), and just full strength LB on one cast (the WoD version), is not not that big or something that was "overlooked".
    Last edited by Sprucelee; 2014-06-13 at 02:44 PM.
    Fangthorn <Temerity> Windrunner - US

    US #15 @ 3 Days - 12 Hours / Week

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    ToL is a CD, it's strong but so are a lot of CDs... there's no issue. the problem with resto druid is Wild Mushroom + WG currently. maybe genesis w/ double rejuvs too but i'm not sure.
    I get that Wild Mushroom will be quite a bit too strong on low movement fights, because otherwise you either have low uptime, or quite a bit of mana cost due to repositioning. But what exactly is wrong with wild growth or double rejuvenation [which has to compete with a legendary meta gem effect]?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by stormgust View Post
    I get that Wild Mushroom will be quite a bit too strong on low movement fights, because otherwise you either have low uptime, or quite a bit of mana cost due to repositioning. But what exactly is wrong with wild growth or double rejuvenation [which has to compete with a legendary meta gem effect]?
    moment of clarity isn't as good as one would think - it only applies to cast time skills but not wild growth/mushroom, now how often do you really use HT/Regrowth? honestly they're only used to keep your mastery buff active or because OoC would've procced: most of the time you'll be spamming rejuv and using wild growth in between. i think the winner of the talents is germination by far. 2 rejuvs rolling on the tank along with LB is really strong.

  18. #18
    Which makes me think you have little experience with using the current iteration of ToL effectively, particularly when it mattered early in expansions.
    Resulting to childish insults to prove your point. Thanks for the chuckle. I can assure you that I have plenty of experience playing tree of life early in expansions and I understand that instant regrowth spam was strong on a lot of fights, namely Garajal hc. However that is besides the point, the discussion was whether or not being able to blanket the raid in cheap fully charged lifebloom was too strong or not; which in my opinion it will be. Especially in early content where everyone will be sat at sub 100% health.
    Fail to prepare. Prepare to fail.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    moment of clarity isn't as good as one would think - it only applies to cast time skills but not wild growth/mushroom, now how often do you really use HT/Regrowth? honestly they're only used to keep your mastery buff active or because OoC would've procced: most of the time you'll be spamming rejuv and using wild growth in between.
    That may be the case currently, but IF they manage to shift the healing paradigm to be tighter on mana and more single target casting, I would expect to use RG and HT a lot more than we do now - which would make moment of clarity more valuable a talent than you imply.

    (not in alpha so i cant say for sure, but that's the goal we've heard from blizz at least)
    Last edited by Keiyra; 2014-06-13 at 07:11 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    moment of clarity isn't as good as one would think - it only applies to cast time skills but not wild growth/mushroom, now how often do you really use HT/Regrowth? honestly they're only used to keep your mastery buff active or because OoC would've procced: most of the time you'll be spamming rejuv and using wild growth in between. i think the winner of the talents is germination by far. 2 rejuvs rolling on the tank along with LB is really strong.
    They're considering to allow MoC to affect all spells. If that goes through, it'll definitely be a good competition for Germination. Also, what Keiyra said.

    If one talent is lacking, then it's definitely rampant growth. Target Restriction/High Mana cost for a heal barely superior to regrowth [mildly assuming but 1 rejuvenation tick lost, not counting living seed/rg hot] just to have a non-cd instant heal doesn't seem worth it. Not even SotF can save it anymore [nor is such a reliance another talent something I'd consider good design ...]

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