1. #1

    Garrosh 10 man HC

    We are having trouble on garrosh 10 man HC. Currently we are getting a 3rd wolf rider and 2 iron stars (with me the destro lock doing engineers) in phase 1 which is diverting some of our boss dmg right as we r transitioning. We have the boss at 97% when we go to jade serpent transition, should it be alot lower? Also in jade serpent we are always transitioning at 24-25 energy. Our strat in the jade serpent temple is to split into 3 groups, 2 groups of 4 that left or right and 1 group of 2 that go to the middle. We just aoe everything down while chaining intterupts, I want to know from any of you experienced destro locks on how i can maximize my dmg on this transition as it causes the majority of our wipes. Our strat on phase 2 is to burn fast enough with 7 dps to skip 2nd transition. On our first pull we managed to get it to 17% before we were pulled in to the terrace so i feel that its reachable if we refine our strat abit. We are using:

    1 tank:
    585 blood dk

    2 healers:
    582 resto sham(has 584 ele set)
    582 disc priest

    7 dps:
    582 destro/aff warlock(584 afflic set)
    584 ret pally
    586 surv hunter
    585 surv hunter
    578 fury war (has 578 prot set)
    578 ele sham
    579 frost mage

    Here is last nights logs:
    http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...YHXFh#fight=34

  2. #2
    We haven't actually killed it yet, but my guild's consistently in P4 (should be dead tomorrow).

    Anyhow, the first intermission is really the only difficult part of the fight up until the ~P3 burn (which even then isn't hard because it's identical to normal). You need to make sure that your dps are saving cooldowns for the first intermission, and otherwise it's just repetition that will improve your times on the first transition. Also, it goes without saying but make sure to be using speed boosts to get to the back groups.

    Second, trying to skip the second intermission is all well and good, however you need to make sure that if you do so, you do it in a way that your dps will have their 3-minutes up as soon as Garry hits 10%, because not having them up will surely mean you won't push past phase 3 fast enough. Also, having a chance to replenish cookies by just sitting around during second intermission is also quite nice. Even without pushing past, our dps is high enough to get through with only 2 total empowered whirling corruptions.

    Hope this helped even a little bit, I know they weren't the most specific tips, but practice very much makes perfect on this fight, and it's important not to overthink the first 3 phases.

  3. #3
    If you're running 7 dps and getting a third wolfrider its sounding like DPS may be part of the problem. Just looking at phase 1 damage to Garrosh raid wide it's probably on the low side. To compare, we are working on the 1 tank 2 healer strat and for phase 1 we average around 2.9-3m raid wide. We're all within the 576 - 584 ilvl range FWIW. In phase 1 the only dps we have below 300k single target to Garrosh is our lock who is on the engineers. On phase 2 to skip the transition we need to do between 2.7-2.8m raid dps and that's getting him to push over to phase 3 just in time basically. I only really looked at your long attempt but from that it looks like you may struggle to skip the second transition phase.

    For the first transition it's looking like there are a few interrupting issues. It looks like there are 3-4 people that are getting them consistently, until you have everyone interrupting the transition will be rough. AoE stuns and all that work to stop casts too. The engineering bolt gun is a very handy aoe interrupt for emergencies.

    From a lock point of view on the transition, I'm not sure of tricks etc cos I don't play one, but I can tell you that our destro lock over 70% of his damage to the disembodied doubt adds is from chaos bolt. He uses the glyph of havoc or bane of havoc (whatever it's called). He also takes shadowfury (the aoe stun talent).

    Can't really say much else besides that both your hunters can pick up their game quite a bit. For 585-586 ilvl their dps is pretty low. As a comparison my hunter is 576 and averaged 389k single target on Garrosh over 11 painful wipes the other night, compared to the 315k and 258k of your 2 guys. They should probably give BM a try cos with that ilvl I'd say they'll more than likely be better off.

    Not sure if any of that actually helps but might give you a couple of ideas maybe. We're still working on this boss too, we're working on getting to the last phase cleanly so definitely share your pain

  4. #4
    I know counting past 1 can be a bit confusing but on all pulls over 2 minutes you had 2 wolfriders only :P Thats pretty much expected for progress. If you can avoid the 2nd one its more dps on the boss but you are doing fine.

    What % the boss is at when you transition for the first time is irrelevant. You want to hit sub 20% at the 2nd transition to have a realistic chance at pushing him. I'd advise you to "afk" it, don't try to "skip" it by pushing the boss sub 10% before the intermission, you will want your dps CD's etc back up for the burn. It's a longer fight this way but safer.

    Destro locks should be easy in the transition. Conserve embers and get backdraft stacks. Havoc chaos bolt 2 pre-determined adds. From your long attempt all you did was CB some adds and RoF. Wheres the shadowburn etc?

    If you want to optimise dps in the transition a good place to start, oddly is your disc priest. Halo, if fired off in the right place hits 9 adds for over 10% of their health. Also if the priest runs out for WC's etc halo lines up nicely with boss abilities. On paper divine star is the winner but in reality Halo trumps it anyday on that fight.

    Anyway, you're doing great. I don't think I've ever seen anyone make the first transition on the first pull at less than 25 energy. Tho ur shammy did save ascendance for it.

  5. #5
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    For tricks as warlock :

    Use glyph of Havoc, get embers on the first waves of adds with rain of fire / fire and Brimstone 5 seconds before engineer arrives, double aoe conflag, havoc Garrosh, personnal tp on the engineer, two chaos bolts should be enough to kill him if you have procs (and they also go on the boss, you don't lose that much dps on the boss), if not a shadowburn will do, gateway back to the raid to avoid the wolfrider.

    Repeat for the second engineer, but this time don't use Havoc, you will need it on the transition.

    Make sure you have at least 3 embers for transition, double conflag when the boss pulls you to the intermission. As soon as you get there, Havoc an add double chaos bolt another, those two chaos bolts should be enough to kill two adds of a group, someone will have to do the third to get quickly to the end or you can stay and kill it, depending on your assignation.

    For the rest of the fight, nothing special, try to havoc the boss a few seconds before the first weapon, Glyphed havoc as more CD than the weapon, so you may want to "earn" a few seconds, use embers to heal on empowered whirlwind.

    Keep some embers for the AoE of the second intermission, as a destruction you can wreck the adds.

    Here is our kill if you want to see how I do it :



    PS : Yes, we popped two Iron stars at the end, I know that's bad.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also I forgot, try to build embers during Garrosh speech for P4, refresh immolate before intermissions, as our other warlock did, you can sacrifice your voidwalker during the speech for P4, you won't need the silence anymore.

    PS2 : Don't die at the first Malice like our mage, or prepare to be taunted for all WoD
    Last edited by ThunderTaco; 2014-07-14 at 04:34 AM.

  6. #6
    He really should be saving cds for the phase - everyone should, Deja. Put it like this, though:

    1: Phase 1 garrosh dps is completly and utterly irrelevant. 2 stars, 3 stats, 3 wolfs etc, as long as you do not get over run, it will not matter in the end.
    THIS BEING SAID, if you want to optimise around beating the second engineer (or maybe just the second wolf/third desecrate, for a start - that's the easier goal), here's how you do it:

    http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...9&end=16838584 <--- you get your raiders to stop this bullshit. Look at their damage breakdowns. This is for the second set of adds - the set that you'll want to kill with the second iron star, so you can push before the second wolf.

    This is their dmg to the boss:
    http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...584&target=217

    Adds are dying before the ironstar even reaches you - this means that you are wasting tons of dps on them, as they only need to be at 50% or so before the star comes. You can get away with just accidental cleave pushing the adds low enough (divine storm procs from ret, bladestorm from warr as it's apparantly a singletarget increase...? not sure, cloak procs, ember generation from you as the destro lock).

    A big culprit is your disc priest aswell - his damage is, to say it mildly, piss-poor. He needs to work on his atonement, and stop playing as if he's actually brought for his healing. The shaman doesn't need his help to heal phase 1 on garrosh. The shaman barely needs his help in the intermission/p2. The disc should be 100% focused on bringing top dps, and shelling/shielding/haloing when he's supposed to. Put it like this - in a 3 minute attempt, he used Penance 11 times. Penance can be cast every 9 seconds. 180/9=20.
    Penance CD is further lowered by .5 seconds for every smite you cast. He casted 42 smites. That's 21 seconds, or another two penances. He is literally wasting *half* of his penances by not hitting the button on CD. He could up his singletarget DPS in P1 by what, 20-30K? just from hitting that button on CD *alone*.
    His holy fire usage is likewise horrible. 10 out of 18 usages.

    Take your longest attempt and look at his performance throughout that - 7:30 minutes, minus a minute in the intermission 2 if I'm reading the log right. 87 Smites. That's 43 seconds.
    493 seconds total, divided by 9 = 54 penances.
    Care to guess how many he casted?
    18.
    18 fucking penances.
    Oh, and 17 holy fires out of more than 40.

    Basicly, it's not going to break the dps, but your disc is... Not doing very well right now. I'd have a stern word with him if I were you. He'll add a good 30-40K singletarget dps if he stops trying to snipe the shaman (who can't dps nearly as well) to compete on the healing meter.
    Also, +1 for halo. Far better talent as it helps the two parts of the fight that's important - Empowered adds (everyone spread = divine star is shit) and Jade temple.


    Last but not least, if you want more jade temple dps, both your hunters can go BM. They're far stronger in there with proper management (assuming they can play BM, of course) while being the stronger spec overall if they can play both at the same level. Right now your ele shaman is carrying you.

    What % the boss is at when you transition for the first time is irrelevant. You want to hit sub 20% at the 2nd transition to have a realistic chance at pushing him. I'd advise you to "afk" it, don't try to "skip" it by pushing the boss sub 10% before the intermission, you will want your dps CD's etc back up for the burn. It's a longer fight this way but safer.
    Wrong. The HP Garrosh loses after healing from 10->100% (the RP he does / around 15 seconds of "whack me while I whack you"-time) stays lost. He does not heal from entering the first intermission. If you can get 5-8% shaved off before even entering P2, that's 5-8% you don't have to shave off to get him sub-20% later.
    Last edited by Dracodraco; 2014-07-14 at 04:50 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Wrong. The HP Garrosh loses after healing from 10->100% (the RP he does / around 15 seconds of "whack me while I whack you"-time) stays lost. He does not heal from entering the first intermission. If you can get 5-8% shaved off before even entering P2, that's 5-8% you don't have to shave off to get him sub-20% later.
    The point you avoided was that if the boss is at 17% when they hit intermission 2 then its job done as far as dps checks are concerned. All they have to do then is push him with no adds up or MC'd people. Does it really matter what % hes at when they hit intermission 1? I know its over-simplification and they can optimise (it was their first pull). A good p1 transition target would see them at 92%, an ok one at 94% at a guess but *care* It's not going to break the attempt if they get the boss to 17% at intermission 2 regardless. If its a choice between conserving resources and shaving 2% off then if it were me I'd choose to conserve resources.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    The point you avoided was that if the boss is at 17% when they hit intermission 2 then its job done as far as dps checks are concerned. All they have to do then is push him with no adds up or MC'd people. Does it really matter what % hes at when they hit intermission 1? I know its over-simplification and they can optimise (it was their first pull). A good p1 transition target would see them at 92%, an ok one at 94% at a guess but *care* It's not going to break the attempt if they get the boss to 17% at intermission 2 regardless. If its a choice between conserving resources and shaving 2% off then if it were me I'd choose to conserve resources.
    While you're technically right, we usually have him down 7% without trying, and we're able to skip the second transmission entirely. This is while we were progressing. Yes, 2% is absolutely huge. Theres been times we've potted early/lusted early to make sure we don't get that second intermission.

    Simply put theres no reason not to bring the boss down as much as possible before the first intermission. All the major cooldowns are already on cooldown anyway so theres not even anything for anyone to blow.




    Responding to the OP, if you're 1 tank 2 healing, and getting 3 sets of wolf riders, you're pretty slow. You're fine as far as getting to the intermission and nailing jade serpent temple, but you're probably gonna be slow dps wise trying to get him to phase 3 before an empowered whirl. As someone else stated, overall damage in phase 1 might as well not exist. Any class that is higher single target than higher cleave should be single targeting. If you're able to avoid that last wolf rider you'll unexpectedly have the boss noticably lower.
    Last edited by Gande; 2014-07-14 at 05:53 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    The point you avoided was that if the boss is at 17% when they hit intermission 2 then its job done as far as dps checks are concerned. All they have to do then is push him with no adds up or MC'd people. Does it really matter what % hes at when they hit intermission 1? I know its over-simplification and they can optimise (it was their first pull). A good p1 transition target would see them at 92%, an ok one at 94% at a guess but *care* It's not going to break the attempt if they get the boss to 17% at intermission 2 regardless. If its a choice between conserving resources and shaving 2% off then if it were me I'd choose to conserve resources.
    The earlier you hit that execution range the more HP you are going to take off and that 2% before i1 turns into 4% in execution range.

  10. #10
    Field Marshal sphinxhunter's Avatar
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    Ok so my last post wasn't very helpful.

    speaking from a 10man perspective, I would recommend you NOT skip the intermission P2 and just stand at the back, the reason for this you will have trinkets/majority of cooldowns up for when you need them - this little thing made everything so easy for us as our healers were complaining about mana/cds etc. and the only downside to this is more hp on mind controls which is trivial if people can switch

    Your raid dps for having 7 pure dps classes and a Disc priest is bad, all your dps should be pushing 320k atleast.
    How to increase this: both hunters should be BM - if they want to stay survival uptime on sting/black arrow should be higher

    just to put in perspective, we take 2 healers/2 tanks and 6 dps, most times we only get 1 ironstar/1wolfrider and if we are unlucky 2 sets of adds.
    100Hunter 90Hunter 92Rogue 100Warrior 91Paladin 90Druid


  11. #11
    Here are the tips I can provide for the first transition and preventing extra sets of wolves.
    1. I don't see a lot of damage taken from the raid as far as desecrate weapon goes, so I can assume you're moving out of it. I'd suggest ignoring it and just aoeing it down. When it's dead, single target the boss, the adds can be cleaved down by the tanks in most situations. The key to this being effective is being sure that the tank is stacked with the rest of the group, it really hurts your dps if you have to aoe 2 sets of 3 mobs down as opposed to aoeing 1 set of 6. When i'm tanking and the weapon goes out, I stack the boss on top of it.

    2. For the first transition, everybody needs to be aware of their short cooldown spells. I find this topic especially hard for mages. Even though an ability is only 5-10 seconds long, you must have it available at the beginning of the transition. For instance, as a brewmaster, I had to make sure my keg smash was available as soon as we went up. After looking at the logs, I can confirm that your mage does not do a lot amount of damage on the adds, that's because the dps are blowing everything on gary as soon as it's up. I'd recommend saving his frost procs for instant ice lances during the transition. He should definitely have more than 2.

    Attached is our kill vid from 4 months ago, we've switch to 25m, so i've got experience with both. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvXZLjlZBD0
    We 2 tanked, 1 solo healed it w/ a disc priest. If you can keep the raid up, you might want to consider having the shammy go ele and having the warrior switch to his prot set. (If you try this... be sure the tanks are swapping vengeance and that both have vengeance on their way up into the first transition.)

    Good luck!
    Last edited by thaynia; 2014-07-14 at 04:53 PM.

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