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  1. #681
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everztar View Post
    Primo, Enhancement Shaman of Darksorrow who had the hand of Ragnaros... > any dps
    The windsurf was sick as fuck... I'm telling you

    There was a lot of shadowpriest and fury warriors too, I knew a good balance druid... The reason why druids were playing healers or priest playing healers is simply because: Makes don't wanna trade gear with priests, hunters shouldn't have to fight over gear with a shaman and druids shouldn't have to fight over gear with a rogue... However... There was plenty of people on my realm playing shadow, feral, elemental an such...
    Yes, that was sick in PvP with windfury combos, but, in PvE I don't think it was better than a fury warrior, mage or rogue. I'm pretty sure Shamans ran out of mana or were forced to use less mana consming spells. And yes they were exceptionnal people playing hybrids that perform very well, but that does not mean that the game was balanced or well designed. It just meant that with superior skill and gear you could beat a better class.

    I'm pretty sure the game is more balanced now (in term of classes) than vanilla, and that makes it, in my opinion, a better designed game.

  2. #682
    High Overlord Everztar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderTaco View Post
    Yes, that was sick in PvP with windfury combos, but, in PvE I don't think it was better than a fury warrior, mage or rogue. I'm pretty sure Shamans ran out of mana or were forced to use less mana consming spells. And yes they were exceptionnal people playing hybrids that perform very well, but that does not mean that the game was balanced or well designed. It just meant that with superior skill and gear you could beat a better class.

    I'm pretty sure the game is more balanced now (in term of classes) than vanilla, and that makes it, in my opinion, a better designed game.
    It is indeed more balanced... No doubt... Bu t i want the RPG and community back, I never said that balancing was bad or anything, it's very good now and new spells are fun... But crossrealm fuked up a lotion things for me tbh I can't have friends like before or anything no pride either, cuz people look at my legendary and think: lol I have that too :P and blah blah

  3. #683
    Quote Originally Posted by Everztar View Post
    It is indeed more balanced... No doubt... Bu t i want the RPG and community back, I never said that balancing was bad or anything, it's very good now and new spells are fun... But crossrealm fuked up a lotion things for me tbh I can't have friends like before or anything no pride either, cuz people look at my legendary and think: lol I have that too :P and blah blah
    I think, It was a reasonable decission, go give everybody the chance for the legendary item. You can argue, if it should be obtainable via LFR, but let's face it: The old way of legendaries created a extremly toxic community. first of all people playing an other class, which does not get the legendary were angry, because they were skipped over. Then the players, who may get a legendary, but were not chosen by the guild might have felt screwed over, some even decided to destroy the guild for revenge... And in the end we got those... those scumbacks who would do everything for getting their legendary items, betraying their guild, causing trouble, backstabbing.. No thanks!

  4. #684
    Quote Originally Posted by josykay View Post
    I think, It was a reasonable decission, go give everybody the chance for the legendary item. You can argue, if it should be obtainable via LFR, but let's face it: The old way of legendaries created a extremly toxic community.
    No it was not reasonable decission to give it to everybody. They didnt DESERVE it. Mby if it was epic it would be a good idea to give players cause it actualy makes them do something for their first epic. I dont even understand why blizzard changed the items rarity like this..get EPICS free from the fucking ground. Like WHY?

    Do you actualy think the community was more toxic in the old days than now?
    I tell you how the community got EXTREMELY toxic. LFR, LFD, crossrealms.

  5. #685
    Quote Originally Posted by sheepra View Post
    No it was not reasonable decission to give it to everybody. They didnt DESERVE it.
    Why does one Player of Guild X deserve it more, than an other one, Who has done the same shit?


    I dont even understand why blizzard changed the items rarity like this..get EPICS free from the fucking ground. Like WHY?
    This is, why they introduced the reputation farming again. But the same players who were complaining about "Free Äpix" were omplaining again, since they had to do those evil stupid daily quests.

    So people want to "earn" their epics, but do not want, to actually do something for it. This is plain retarded.

    I honestly don't get it:
    During Classic it was fine, doing repeatable quests, and grinding reputation for getting Epics. Now it is "bad and boring"?
    During Classic some of the best epics (At least until AQ and Nax launched) were craftable, and pretty cheap... Und so were the profession sets of the BC. During BC the token system was introduced, giving players the easy opportunity to just buy epics (Really good epics, at Tier 5 level or even higher when SWP was released), and people say, they want the BC days back, when you had to "earn" your epics?
    "Epics were Epics" is a myth. Nothing less. Hell even most Classic Epics until (late) BWL were even worse than high dungeon blues. This does not sound "epic" to me.




    Do you actualy think the community was more toxic in the old days than now?
    I tell you how the community got EXTREMELY toxic. LFR, LFD, crossrealms.
    The only difference is, that you now meet the scum from other servers. Community didn't get more toxic, you just now have to deal with those Idiots from Aegwynn EU and so on.^^ Before that, every server hat it's very own idiots. I would rather have an unknown idiot flaming me, instead of a "friend" backstabbing me for some pixels.
    Last edited by josykay; 2014-08-05 at 11:51 AM.

  6. #686
    I did AV in 2008, and we did summon the tree and the elemental.
    I am the one who knocks!

  7. #687
    Quote Originally Posted by josykay View Post
    Why does one Player of Guild X deserve it more, than an other one, Who has done the same shit?



    This is, why they introduced the reputation farming again. But the same players who were complaining about "Free Äpix" were omplaining again, since they had to do those evil stupid daily quests.

    So people want to "earn" their epics, but do not want, to actually do something for it. This is plain retarded.

    I honestly don't get it:
    During Classic it was fine, doing repeatable quests, and grinding reputation for getting Epics. Now it is "bad and boring"?
    During Classic some of the best epics (At least until AQ and Nax launched) were craftable, and pretty cheap... Und so were the profession sets of the BC. During BC the token system was introduced, giving players the easy opportunity to just buy epics (Really good epics, at Tier 5 level or even higher when SWP was released), and people say, they want the BC days back, when you had to "earn" your epics?
    "Epics were Epics" is a myth. Nothing less. Hell even most Classic Epics until (late) BWL were even worse than high dungeon blues. This does not sound "epic" to me.
    I ment giving the legendary to EVERY1. Was not talking about Raiders.

    So its better to let ppl grab epics from the ground? thats fucking epic.

  8. #688
    I ment giving the legendary to EVERY1. Was not talking about Raiders.
    Thats why I said, that you can argue, if the cloak should be obtainable via LFR or not.

    So its better to let ppl grab epics from the ground? thats fucking epic.
    That's the problem: You can not have both. You can not have, to "earn your epics" without doing stuff, you might feel uncomfortable, like the early MOP epics have proven. IMO the first MOP Point/ Repsystem was pretty good. The reputation grind was not as painful like during Classic or BC, but you were not able, to get the items just by playing like you did during WotLK and Cata. IMO the early MOP system was pretty good.
    However they should reduce the Itemlevel you can get in one tier. Now we have LFR, Flex, Normal, Warforged, HC and HC Warforged, and updates of up to 16. One raid tier should never have 61 itemlevel for doing essentially the same shit. If you now look at the entire expension epics startet at 470. Now we crossed 616! We got 146 item levels from the first to the highest epic item level in just one expension! That's far to high! Not to mention the fact, that MOP started at item level 372! Giving MOP the record of 242 item levels.

    Classic: 62 up to 90= 38 Epic Item levels.
    BC: 110 up to 164= 54 Epic Item Levels.
    WotLK: 200 up to 284= 84 Epic Item Levels
    Cata: 352 up to 416 = 64 Epic Item Levels
    Last edited by josykay; 2014-08-05 at 12:30 PM.

  9. #689
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everztar View Post
    It is indeed more balanced... No doubt... Bu t i want the RPG and community back, I never said that balancing was bad or anything, it's very good now and new spells are fun... But crossrealm fuked up a lotion things for me tbh I can't have friends like before or anything no pride either, cuz people look at my legendary and think: lol I have that too :P and blah blah
    I agree that cross realm zones aren't flawsless, for example when someone attacks me, realizes he is losing and just leaves the group so he leaves my realm, great...
    Or the fact that I can't camp rares or stuff like that easily.

    But on the other hand, it allows me to play with friends on other realms, or to join raids with my alts easily on OpenRaid, and I love raiding. That's why I think the CR technology a plus in the end.

  10. #690
    too fucking long ; barely read.

    From what I did read though, the first two comments after the OP nailed it. The game cant stay the same forever. It has to evolve otherwise it would have would up like every other "wow killer" out there. Youre just trying to justify reasons for you attempting to walk away from it all but still cant.
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  11. #691
    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderTaco View Post
    Or, you could just remove the ability to heal for hybrids if they choose a DPS spec, that way they can be tuned to have the same DPS as pure DPS classes but they have the option to respec into healing (and lose the ability to DPS effectively, let's say enough for questing and farming a bit) if they want to and pure DPS specs can respec to another gameplay but still have to DPS.

    If you go by "Hybrids should have X% of the DPS of a pure class" you will have to stack pure DPS classes for raids with some boss with low raid damage but high DPS requirements and you will have to stack hybrids for raids with high raid damage but low DPS requirements and only if there is high raid damage and high DPS requirement you will have to find a good balance.

    This would encourage people to reroll so that their group can face any situation, this is what guilds did for WotlK and Cata (25 warlocks for the soulstones, the ferals for Heroic Nefarian, the mages/rogues for Spine, etc etc) and Blizzard clearly stated that they prefer the philosophy "Bring the player, not the class".

    I agree with this philosophy, maybe it goes a little against the RPG, but I like it, it'd rather player that with my friends than play a "true RPG" with random people because my friends didn't chose the right class from the start.
    As long as they stop calling it an RPG I agree that this might work. The real solution to my mind is to equip every class and spec with unique buffs and utilities, which will be required or beneficial in many raids, if not all of them. As long as no particular class is excluded entirely this would work alright, and keep the RPG elements the game depended on. There isn`t a single RPG I have ever played where you would ever start out by thinking "I want to do loads and loads of dps. I know, I`ll roll a priest!". I mean, it`s brain dead. But in WoW that is now how the game has turned out, and it`s the main reason for the exodus of players and why we`re having this discussion. It`s not because I`m burned out or living in the past or because you`re stupid and a fan boy. It`s because the game has objectively change from one genre to another.

    As for easy mode, you are , as usual, pretending that raids are the game. Sure, there were fights that were easy in Vanilla, and particularly for ranged dps. But most of the time things could be fairly unforgiving for both healers and tanks, and a lot more so than after TBC. Chromaggus is a good example. One slight prehealing mistake from a healer and the tank died instantly so you wiped. If anything like that had been introduced today there would be whining loud enough to wake the dead, from all the entitled slackers who have gotten used to WoW kiddie mode. Yes, kiddie mode. Outside of the raids EVERYTHING has been nerfed to shit, including everything from leveling to harvesting times. No matter what game element you want to consider, it has been trivialized so much that WoW as a matter of fact no longer is an MMORPG. And with raids coming in Slightly hard, Normal and Knuckledragger modes, even that has been bastardized and made unexciting. Who wants to waste time doing something any slob can press a button and do too, without any problems at all? Not me! You raided for the excitement of seeing things not everyone could get to and to find gear nobody else could find. And that`s just the end of it. Nobody ever raided to get "achievement" number 6927, a title or some ridiculous mount nobody cares about anyway, because the game is so swamped with cheap, fake achievements of all kinds.
    Last edited by Bentusi; 2014-08-05 at 09:25 PM.

  12. #692
    people saying nostalgia either clearly never played vanilla or were didnt like/couldnt handle the challenge.

    i would love a brand new lvl 60 server starting with the original ony/mc raids, then patching every x months to more content. even tbc was fun (a little less challenging but still fun). if they continued patching after vanilla to tbc/wotlk it would be awesome. doing the content in content appropriate gear again (without all the new talents and spells that exist now if you wanted to redo it)

    I cant think it would be that hard to do, they have to have those itterations of the game lying around somewhere. just throw them on a server.

  13. #693
    The Lightbringer vian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangetai420 View Post
    Sorry but it won't.

    The X-Box live generation wants instant gratification with menus and matchmaking. Most don't care about immersion, they want quick groups with zero effort.

    Enjoy what is left before its gone.
    This here, Ladies and Gentlemen, might just be the wisest words on the internet right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  14. #694
    Stood in the Fire Lord Havik's Avatar
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    *Wall of text crits for 9999999999999999999k*

    *Interest dies.*


    Also: Hey! Soloing the normal version of a raid in Heroic raid gear while that raid is still relevant is fun. Don't knock it til you've tried it.

  15. #695
    Quote Originally Posted by Everztar View Post
    It is indeed more balanced... No doubt... Bu t i want the RPG and community back, I never said that balancing was bad or anything, it's very good now and new spells are fun... But crossrealm fuked up a lotion things for me tbh I can't have friends like before or anything no pride either, cuz people look at my legendary and think: lol I have that too :P and blah blah
    Can't have friends. That is nonsense. LOL

    Shame you need others to make your legendary feel like an accomplishment. I mean if you feel you didn't "earn" it that's one thing, but to feel less/no pride in an accomplishment because others have done it to is silly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by vian View Post
    This here, Ladies and Gentlemen, might just be the wisest words on the internet right now.
    Sharing an opinion does not make it wise or even correct.

    WoW is certainly easy, but everything has an effort cost associated with it, and things that require more effort, or at least more skill have higher rewards.

    It's just now there isn't just the high cost and thus exclusive shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
    Laurellen - Druid Laurellin - Deathknight

  16. #696
    Stood in the Fire salate's Avatar
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    Nostalgia is a bad thing, and good aswell.
    You do remember the best moments of *paste name* and sometimes trying to retry and repeat those warm feelings you once had before.

    That's how not only WoW but life works
    step into everything will gief ya nothing, mon

  17. #697
    Personally I still have a lot of fun playing the game. It's different, yes, but different does not always mean worse.

  18. #698
    The Lightbringer vian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    Sharing an opinion does not make it wise or even correct.
    No, but stating obvious facts does.
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  19. #699
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bentusi View Post
    As long as they stop calling it an RPG I agree that this might work. The real solution to my mind is to equip every class and spec with unique buffs and utilities, which will be required or beneficial in many raids, if not all of them. As long as no particular class is excluded entirely this would work alright, and keep the RPG elements the game depended on. There isn`t a single RPG I have ever played where you would ever start out by thinking "I want to do loads and loads of dps. I know, I`ll roll a priest!". I mean, it`s brain dead. But in WoW that is now how the game has turned out, and it`s the main reason for the exodus of players and why we`re having this discussion. It`s not because I`m burned out or living in the past or because you`re stupid and a fan boy. It`s because the game has objectively change from one genre to another.

    As for easy mode, you are , as usual, pretending that raids are the game. Sure, there were fights that were easy in Vanilla, and particularly for ranged dps. But most of the time things could be fairly unforgiving for both healers and tanks, and a lot more so than after TBC. Chromaggus is a good example. One slight prehealing mistake from a healer and the tank died instantly so you wiped. If anything like that had been introduced today there would be whining loud enough to wake the dead, from all the entitled slackers who have gotten used to WoW kiddie mode. Yes, kiddie mode. Outside of the raids EVERYTHING has been nerfed to shit, including everything from leveling to harvesting times. No matter what game element you want to consider, it has been trivialized so much that WoW as a matter of fact no longer is an MMORPG. And with raids coming in Slightly hard, Normal and Knuckledragger modes, even that has been bastardized and made unexciting. Who wants to waste time doing something any slob can press a button and do too, without any problems at all? Not me! You raided for the excitement of seeing things not everyone could get to and to find gear nobody else could find. And that`s just the end of it. Nobody ever raided to get "achievement" number 6927, a title or some ridiculous mount nobody cares about anyway, because the game is so swamped with cheap, fake achievements of all kinds.

    RPG is a vast definition (in video gaming), I have seen many interpretations and many games labelled as "RPGs", I don't care what genre it is, I prefer WoW like it is now than in Vanilla/BC.

    Challenges modes, Proving grounds endless mode, Brawler's guild, Timeless isle rares and Yaun'gols aren't nerfed to shit. Yes, they aren't extremely hard, but it will require time investment and skill, so you can't say that there is no challenge anymore.

    Yes, my main interest in WoW are the raids, so I care mainly about raids. And there are a lot of fights in Heroic where you can wipe easily if one player makes a small mistake (Jin'rokh, Tortos, Durumu, Dark Animus, Lei shen, Malkorok, Spoils, Thok, Blackfuse, Garrosh). I don't care if there is a LFR / Flex / Normal mode that everybody did, what I care about is clearing challenging bosses with my friends. My main goal isn't to sit at Orgrimmar with my Heroic gear and mount so everybody envies me.

    But guess what ? Blizzard is going to introduce mythic sets with unique style, mythic raiders will get their special set that the "slobs" won't have and will be able to afk in the main hubs.

    I don't really care about mounts or achievements either, sure, I will probably end with the Garrosh mount, but it's not a goal for me, it's a bonus.
    Last edited by ThunderTaco; 2014-08-06 at 03:15 PM.

  20. #700
    High Overlord Everztar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderTaco View Post
    RPG is a vast definition (in video gaming), I have seen many interpretations and many games labelled as "RPGs", I don't care what genre it is, I prefer WoW like it is now than in Vanilla/BC.

    Challenges modes, Proving grounds endless mode, Brawler's guild, Timeless isle rares and Yaun'gols aren't nerfed to shit. Yes, they aren't extremely hard, but it will require time investment and skill, so you can't say that there is no challenge anymore.

    Yes, my main interest in WoW are the raids, so I can mainly about raids. And there are a lot of fights in Heroic where you can wipe eaily if one player makes a small mistake (Jin'rokh, Tortos, Durumu, Dark Animus, Lei shen, Malkorok, Spoils, Thok, Blackfuse, Garrosh). I don't care if there is a LFR / Flex / Normal mode that everybody did, what I care about is clearing challenging bosses with my friends. My main goal isn't to sit at Orgrimmar with my Heroic gear and mount so everybody envies me.

    But guess what ? Blizzard is going to introduce mythic sets with unique style, mythic raiders will get their special set that the "slobs" won't have and will be able to afk in the main hubs.

    I don't really care about mounts or achievements either, sure, I will probably end with the Garrosh mount, but it's not a goal for me, it's a bonus.
    alright, tbh... i don't even care if it's hard or not... i still want the community to go back to the same it was in vanilla/tbc. before Crossrealm was invented.
    i hate crossrealm :3

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