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  1. #1

    Subterfuge is stupid

    Call me a crybaby, and call me old-fashioned, but if a rogue is bad enough to let me open on him in stealth, he shouldn't be able to sprint to me at mounted speed and open on me as if it never happened. Is this crap getting removed in WoD?

    That is all.

  2. #2
    I'll be honest, I think the degree to which rogue-openers are fail proof is pretty silly. I miss the days of being able to out-smart the rogue and knock him out of stealth or DoT him up. Nowadays, thats non-existent. They've buffed their toolkit and mechanics to be out-smart-proof.

  3. #3
    How is dotting up a rogue outplaying him?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Crruor View Post
    How is dotting up a rogue outplaying him?
    Getting around the cloak.

  5. #5
    Rogues have been given so many tools over the years it's ridiculous. I used to be a practiced rogue hunter, knocking them out or hitting them first, chasing them down and keeping them from vanishing and getting away, but now it's just like "oh, a rogue's nearby? Just stand there and wait for it to open. Oh, the rogue's running away? Just let it go."

  6. #6
    Burst of Speed is SO annoying! Yeah it's great if the Rogue is your flag carrier for a RBG and all, but Rogues shouldn't be able to Burst Of Speed all the way across the map in the matter of 20 seconds.
    "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." — Socrates

  7. #7
    Pit Lord Gumboy's Avatar
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    It was really skilled for a wizard cleave to just spam aoes in a big radius around there entire team!
    Signatures are for squares! Oh wait...

  8. #8
    Warchief Blitzo's Avatar
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    I do think it needs a bit of tuning.. or something.

    At the same time though, if the invention of stealth was new to MMOs, the internet would riot.

    I mean seriously, YOU'RE INVISIBLE. That just sounds like the most broken thing ever.
    “It is either easy or impossible.” - Salvador Dali

    WoW characters:
    Blitzo[Warrior] -Rex[Hunter] -Jax [Warlock]

  9. #9
    they need to remove half of the aoe abilities first and then should subrefurge too

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    They're already nerfing subterfuge so it won't stealth the rogue after he's hit from combat. Instead it will simply allow the use of stealth abilities for 3 seconds after your stealth breaks and yeah, I agree that the current subterfuge is absolutely disgusting. Getting knocked out of stealth as rogue basically means nothing if there's a pillar nearby since he can just run away behind a pillar and restealth again without you being able to do anything about it.

  11. #11
    Ill admit its quite overpowered but so much fun to cheapshot 4-5 people with subterfuge. Mini shadowdance xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  12. #12
    So annoying at Strand of the ancients. They have planted/defused a bomb before they come out of stealth

  13. #13
    You shouldn't have any problems countering a Rogue as long as you know what to do at the exact moment he attacks you.
    Play a Rogue on PTR for a while and you will get a better understanding of the class and what you have to do in order to avoid being overwhelmed by one. It's pretty simple, if you ask me.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Yrjaan1 View Post
    You shouldn't have any problems countering a Rogue as long as you know what to do at the exact moment he attacks you.
    Play a Rogue on PTR for a while and you will get a better understanding of the class and what you have to do in order to avoid being overwhelmed by one. It's pretty simple, if you ask me.

    Problem with subterfuge is that atm, you cant know. You have to guess.

    Lets say you are a druid and a rogue opens on you, if he dances you have to skin, if he doesnt skinning could be the death of you later on when he dances and you dont have it. You cant see the rogue so you cant say for sure, you have to guess util subterfuge runs out as you cant see the buffs or debuffs on the rogue. It also means rogues are untargatable and thus unpeelable for a few seconds every opener.

    This is all gone in beta though as you can see the rogue immediatly.

  15. #15
    The main problem with subterfuge is that it offers stealth during it (making it unpeelable without AoE CC), but as Ermahgerd said I'm pretty sure the stealth mechanic IS being removed, which will help balance the spell.

  16. #16
    Epic! Doctor Blithe's Avatar
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    Subterfuge and Burst of Speed are really the only problems at the moment and I think both are being fixed in Warlords.

    Subterfuge is being removed, or iterated, and Burst of Speed's energy cost is being increased so it's a lot harder to use constantly (inevitably becoming impossible to peel).

  17. #17
    On beta, the stealth is removed. It's currently bugged, but you'll be able to use your stealth abilties for 3 seconds after breaking stealth.

    As a monk, burst of speed is impossible to counter.

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral Anium's Avatar
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    As a rogue, my second most played, I do have to agree BoS is a bit unbalanced to say the least. Doesn't give you any flexibility, over the other talents. Can't remember when i last used ShS in pvp...
    As for subterfuge it gives us safety, and allows us to setup which is basically what rogues need to perform well, a slight fuck up and you're on the back foot all fight.

  19. #19
    Epic! Doctor Blithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaige View Post
    On beta, the stealth is removed. It's currently bugged, but you'll be able to use your stealth abilties for 3 seconds after breaking stealth.

    As a monk, burst of speed is impossible to counter.
    Burst of Speed is impossible to counter for anyone.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaige View Post
    On beta, the stealth is removed. It's currently bugged, but you'll be able to use your stealth abilties for 3 seconds after breaking stealth.

    As a monk, burst of speed is impossible to counter.
    Are you sure it is bugged? Pretty sure it is intended, I think I saw a blizz stated that somewhere a long long time ago.

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