View Poll Results: Grom's personality will be ruined?

Voters
181. This poll is closed
  • Yes, totally from what we already know

    40 22.10%
  • Not sure, anything can happen, not big hopes

    53 29.28%
  • No, somehow things will be eventually fine canon wise

    12 6.63%
  • No, everything makes total sense

    76 41.99%
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  1. #81
    Scarab Lord Mister Cheese's Avatar
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    I thought Grom only killed Mannoroth to free himself? He couldn't give a shit about what happened to the other Orcs? His last words were "I have freed myself." Doesn't sound like a nice guy to me.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    Well, fine, if you're determined to not learn, I can't really help you. Know this though, Jaina will not become another Sylvanas. That plot line was already closed in stuff that you don't care about. So, in short, you're wrong and I have evidence that you're wrong. It's your choice if you want to examine that evidence or not.
    Having read War Crimes I can say that it is a really ridiculous plot. Almost nothing in the story makes sense, and virtually every character (save a few, such as Anduin and Varian, although Varian gets his ass kicked by a random Tauren pirate) act very different from their normal given personalities. Baine becomes so obsessed with defending Garrosh - whom he hates - that in order to fulfill his duty to the utmost, he goes really far over the edge in attacking Vol'jin and Thrall, pulling no punches. Tyrande does the exact same with the Alliance, especially Jaina. At least Tyrande's side has her staying mostly true to her character otherwise.

    And they turn Garrosh into some kind of sophisticated madman, instead of the angry brute he has been throughout the rest of WoW. It's like they did another major shift of his character like they have been doing virtually every single expansion. It makes me kind of loathe what's coming in WoD...

    That said, it was a good novel, it just didn't make any sense with most of the characters involved. They didn't at all feel like the characters were what they have been brought up to be, and the reason they even had the trial at all is a joke in the end (and I'm not referring to Garrosh's escape). The Celestials' comment at the end kind of pisses me off. That said, I won't post that big of spoilers here. Someone else can if they like.

    One of the redeeming features of the plot, I think, is that they finally resolved Jaina's issues. Maybe now she'll stop being a psychotic Horde hater and start being more like the Jaina of the past. The character development with Jaina was very good.

    None the less, I can't -- and won't -- deny that this should have been in game (perhaps in addition to the novel, it doesn't matter). Things like this would be a great way to have minor content patches to tide us over to the next expansion. Why Blizzard doesn't do this is a mystery to me. It's like they enjoy shooting themselves in the foot. The majority of the players of the game are not going to be reading this novel, so any character shifts (such as they did with Jaina) are going to bring up WTF? moments. Not to mention the entire major plot development with Garrosh's trial is completely missing from the game, a huge gap that really can't be justified at all.

    My two copper.

    - - - Updated - - -

    On topic, I can't say that I have high hopes for Grom Hellscream, but Grom is most likely going to be the same as he always was, a violent angry douchebag. The only difference is that he had experience of the consequences before, and had Thrall (to some extent) guiding him to be a better orc. This is the Grom of the past, you may rest assured that he is as genocidal as ever.

    Given Blizzard's recent history, I doubt they will develop an interesting villain in Grom, almost everything the character is will be long predicted by players with no surprises at all. We'll see, though. I just hope Garry finally gets killed off.
    Last edited by therealbowser; 2014-07-19 at 03:49 AM. Reason: typo

  3. #83
    Elemental Lord Sierra85's Avatar
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    i never liked grom. he always seemed like a bit of a chump.

    cant ruin chump.
    Hi

  4. #84
    How was Jaina ruined? Stop saying characters are ruined because they don't just repeat their same crap they've said for 10 years. Character progression is a thing.

    I should note from an above comment that they didn't change Garrosh at all. He was always super calculating and not a dumb brute. People just failed to understand his character. From Wolfheart to Tides of War, we see Garrosh is an expert strategist.

    He was fiery but most certainly was not dumb.

  5. #85
    Where's the option for "we don't know yet, we have yet to play the entire game and see how everything unfolds throughout the expansion, and then and only then, could we draw a rational conclusion"?

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardkorr View Post
    I'm pretty sure Grom is going to be ruined because players are sick of Garrosh. Really, Garrosh now is like how Grom was back then. Both aggressive assholes who were willing to use dark powers to get stronger (Grom was the first chieftain to drink Mannoroth's blood and Garry used the Sha). However, the reason why Grom is considered a cultural hero is because he "fought a constant battle with his inner self" and he also liberated the orcs from the blood curse. But without the demonic corruption, he is just a rehash of a dick orc from Mists and is unlikely to change due to the removal of Gul'dan from the Iron Horde. So, I think Grom will be ruined in that he will be the exact same shit we've been dealing with for a year now.
    Exactly, I also see this battle within on the character, and yes, the Blood Curse is a big deal, as obtaining freedom was inherently a big deal for Orcs

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimonde View Post
    Don't you think Grommash legend is gonna be severely damaged by Warlords of Draenor? He is tha Hero, the redeemed one, really Blizzard why you contradict Warcraft III so much? I can totally understand people leaving the ship. What do you think? I am quite sure but let's see what's your opinion...
    Grommash wasn't always the hero, he was exactly like Garrosh in his younger years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy
    People just want to be bullies without facing any sort of consequences or social fallout for being a bully. If you declare X as a racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. person you can say or do whatever you want to them, ignoring the fact that they are a human.

  8. #88
    Legendary! Seezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    You have long since already decided that no matter how Grom is portrayed he will be ruined.
    This is a common thing among the playerbase.

  9. #89
    [QUOTE=therealbowser;28311958]None the less, I can't -- and won't -- deny that this should have been in game (perhaps in addition to the novel, it doesn't matter). Things like this would be a great way to have minor content patches to tide us over to the next expansion. Why Blizzard doesn't do this is a mystery to me. It's like they enjoy shooting themselves in the foot. The majority of the players of the game are not going to be reading this novel, so any character shifts (such as they did with Jaina) are going to bring up WTF? moments. Not to mention the entire major plot development with Garrosh's trial is completely missing from the game, a huge gap that really can't be justified at all.

    Books are great and so, but no, the lore of WoW cannot be reconducted in books everytime they screw things up. Firstly, WoW could try to prevent any aggravations to W3 lore. Secondly, if the do, at least fix that later IN-GAME goddamn!!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gharld View Post
    Where's the option for "we don't know yet, we have yet to play the entire game and see how everything unfolds throughout the expansion, and then and only then, could we draw a rational conclusion"?
    Option c...

  10. #90
    Legendary! snuzzle's Avatar
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    Grom is a male so he will be fine. Blizzard only likes to ruin female characters (Sylvanas, Jaina, Tyrande, etc).

    Sig by Isilrien

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimonde View Post
    Option c...
    Option C is a biased option stating that "I don't know but I'm sure everything will turn out ok I guess". He could turn out great, he could turn out crap. We don't know, and building assumptions based on Jaina is just silly.

  12. #92
    For those who claim that this Grom is an earlier version of W3 and so he can be a total douchbag maniac you can always look into W2 and see his spirits from the beginning. I see no maniac there...
    Last edited by Kalimonde; 2014-07-19 at 07:47 AM. Reason: spelling

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimonde View Post
    For those who claim that this Grom is an earlier version of W3 and so he can be a total douchbag maniac you can always look into W2 and see his spirits from the beginning. I see no maniac there...
    He sounds like an axe murderer yelling out song titles and you think he's not a maniac?

  14. #94
    he was a hero for killing thousands of things, and being daring or whatever. I certainly DON'T see him as that much of a hero even from the perceptive of a horde player. from what we actually know about him from the past, and how he has been presented so far he's the same ol' raging asshole he's always been. calling it now, he'll drink demon blood before this next expansion is over. I doubt blizzard can do much to tarnish his legacy, if you even want to call it that.

  15. #95
    Here is a list of things that make me really confused about this time travel, when are we exactly in time?

    Today i saw a model for Cho'gall, emmmmmm what's Cho'gall doing in Draenor? I am confussed, wasn't he supposed to ally with the Horde in W2 as a local native of Azeroth. Does this mean this is after joining the horde, and somehow travelling to Draenor?? but wait...

    This reminds me of Deathwind, he 'dies' in Draenor (W2) and revives in the Maelstrom ¿? Why Deathwing Lair is not displayed in this Draener? Does this mean that this is before that... but then after. When the heck are we in time??????????????????

    I am also quite scared about how Ner'zhul is gonna be portrayed, he is supposed to be the same as Arthas, a fallen hero greedy of Power. But I'm not complaining beforehand as I haven't seen any storylines on Ner'zhul yet. In this case I am rather curious and wary with no real senses yet. Nerthul storyline is so messy, it may become even more or actually less now.

    What about Guldan?? Kiljaeden?? Teron Sanguino?? Oh man, i think i see the problem of time travel now

    BACK TO THE FUTUREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE PLZ

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High View Post
    he was a hero for killing thousands of things, and being daring or whatever. I certainly DON'T see him as that much of a hero even from the perceptive of a horde player. from what we actually know about him from the past, and how he has been presented so far he's the same ol' raging asshole he's always been. calling it now, he'll drink demon blood before this next expansion is over. I doubt blizzard can do much to tarnish his legacy, if you even want to call it that.
    Please, see the difference, I mean a Dark Hero. The one that screw things up and then sacrifices to revert them

    Technically everyone here has dirty hands, everyone, Varian, Thrall and all, this is warfare, there are no good guys in wars other than peaceful minds, well there was Jaina... oh wait.
    Last edited by Kalimonde; 2014-07-19 at 08:07 AM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimonde View Post
    Please, see the difference, I mean a Dark Hero. The one that screw things up and then sacrifices to revert them

    Technically everyone here has dirty hands, everyone, Varian, Thrall and all, this is warfare, there are no good guys in wars other than peaceful minds, well there was Jaina... oh wait.
    I don't find him heroic, not even in the anti/dark hero way. just some raging buffoon what sold his soul and his peoples souls out for wicked demon energy brah. sure I can appreciate what a legendary warrior he is, but everything else about him is detestable. him sacrificing himself at the end was the LEAST he could do.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimonde View Post
    Here is a list of things that make me really confused about this time travel, when are we exactly in time?

    Today i saw a model for Cho'gall, emmmmmm what's Cho'gall doing in Draenor? I am confussed, wasn't he supposed to ally with the Horde in W2 as a local native of Azeroth. Does this mean this is after joining the horde, and somehow travelling to Draenor?? but wait...

    This reminds me of Deathwind, he 'dies' in Draenor (W2) and revives in the Maelstrom ¿? Why Deathwing Lair is not displayed in this Draener? Does this mean that this is before that... but then after. When the heck are we in time??????????????????

    I am also quite scared about how Ner'zhul is gonna be portrayed, he is supposed to be the same as Arthas, a fallen hero greedy of Power. But I'm not complaining beforehand as I haven't seen any storylines on Ner'zhul yet. In this case I am rather curious and wary with no real senses yet. Nerthul storyline is so messy, it may become even more or actually less now.

    What about Guldan?? Kiljaeden?? Teron Sanguino?? Oh man, i think i see the problem of time travel now

    BACK TO THE FUTUREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE PLZ.
    Cho'gall, and ogres in general, are native to Draenor.

    This is before W1, about 2 years ago.

    Alternate Deathwing is in Azeroth so he has no lair here, he didn't die in W2.

    Ner'zhul is a guy with good intentions for his people, but ends up being manipulated because what he truly cares about is power.

    Gul'dan is presumably working with the Horde and Alliance, Teron Gorefiend is in his orc form, he's "Teron'Gor" and is in the shadow council, pretty much Gul'dan's lackey.

    Kil'jaeden is in contact with Gul'dan, he's pissed off because the iron horde ruined his plans.
    Last edited by Randomdude17; 2014-07-19 at 09:54 AM.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Randomdude17 View Post
    Cho'gall, and ogres in general, are native to Draenor.

    This is before W1, about 2 years ago.

    Alternate Deathwing is in Azeroth so he has no lair here, he didn't die in W2.

    Ner'zhul is a guy with good intentions for his people, but ends up being manipulated because what he truly cares about is power.

    Gul'dan is presumably working with the Horde and Alliance, Teron Gorefiend is in his orc form, he's "Teron'Gor" and is in the shadow council, pretty much Gul'dan's lackey.

    Kil'jaeden is in contact with Gul'dan, he's pissed off because the iron horde ruined his plans.
    Pre-W1 okey, I see, I accept all your replies, I will trully sleep a little less confused now. But this raises new questions. I am now a bit unsure about ruling warchief lineage/timing, Orgrim should be there too then as well as Blackhand. They prelude Nerthul and Guldan as warchiefs.

    One last question then, does these people age at all? shouldn't be there somewhere a younger Thrall? At some point I thought he was born in Aceroth though, not sure. But he is coetaneous of Grom and the rest, right? So he should not be much younger than the rest. I guess we will see his parents instead, but then Grom is a quite healthy old man in W3.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    Having read War Crimes I can say that it is a really ridiculous plot. Almost nothing in the story makes sense, and virtually every character (save a few, such as Anduin and Varian, although Varian gets his ass kicked by a random Tauren pirate) act very different from their normal given personalities. Baine becomes so obsessed with defending Garrosh - whom he hates - that in order to fulfill his duty to the utmost, he goes really far over the edge in attacking Vol'jin and Thrall, pulling no punches. Tyrande does the exact same with the Alliance, especially Jaina. At least Tyrande's side has her staying mostly true to her character otherwise.

    And they turn Garrosh into some kind of sophisticated madman, instead of the angry brute he has been throughout the rest of WoW. It's like they did another major shift of his character like they have been doing virtually every single expansion. It makes me kind of loathe what's coming in WoD...

    That said, it was a good novel, it just didn't make any sense with most of the characters involved. They didn't at all feel like the characters were what they have been brought up to be, and the reason they even had the trial at all is a joke in the end (and I'm not referring to Garrosh's escape). The Celestials' comment at the end kind of pisses me off. That said, I won't post that big of spoilers here. Someone else can if they like.

    One of the redeeming features of the plot, I think, is that they finally resolved Jaina's issues. Maybe now she'll stop being a psychotic Horde hater and start being more like the Jaina of the past. The character development with Jaina was very good.

    None the less, I can't -- and won't -- deny that this should have been in game (perhaps in addition to the novel, it doesn't matter). Things like this would be a great way to have minor content patches to tide us over to the next expansion. Why Blizzard doesn't do this is a mystery to me. It's like they enjoy shooting themselves in the foot. The majority of the players of the game are not going to be reading this novel, so any character shifts (such as they did with Jaina) are going to bring up WTF? moments. Not to mention the entire major plot development with Garrosh's trial is completely missing from the game, a huge gap that really can't be justified at all.

    My two copper.

    - - - Updated - - -

    On topic, I can't say that I have high hopes for Grom Hellscream, but Grom is most likely going to be the same as he always was, a violent angry douchebag. The only difference is that he had experience of the consequences before, and had Thrall (to some extent) guiding him to be a better orc. This is the Grom of the past, you may rest assured that he is as genocidal as ever.

    Given Blizzard's recent history, I doubt they will develop an interesting villain in Grom, almost everything the character is will be long predicted by players with no surprises at all. We'll see, though. I just hope Garry finally gets killed off.
    Baine made sense to me, because he was just doing what his dad said. Cairne told him to give it his all, so he gave it his all. Tyrande typically had some point to make when she badgered an Alliance member; like when she asked Varian if he's ever committed genocide, it wasn't to rake Varian over the coals, it was to show how different an Alliance "brutish" leader is to Garrosh.

    Slyvanas was being her typical self, though her random unexplained super strength was a little perplexing. I will agree, Varian getting his ass kicked by a pirate was horse shit.

    Garrosh didn't bother me, because I was expecting it. I read what the author said about Garrosh before the novel came out. Fyi, she said that she sees Garrosh as a person that essentially has a weak personality. He's got no real core. He's a slave to his emotions that is malleable based on his situation. This is how she justifies him going from emo, to an idiotic brute, to honorable warchief, to Hitler, to Hannibal Lecter, all just within a few years. If Blizzard remains consistent with how Golden sees him, then he should have a totally different personality in WoD.

    I also agree that at least some of the events of the book should be in game. Also, fuck the celestials.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimonde View Post
    Don't you think Grommash legend is gonna be severely damaged by Warlords of Draenor? He is tha Hero, the redeemed one, really Blizzard why you contradict Warcraft III so much? I can totally understand people leaving the ship. What do you think? I am quite sure but let's see what's your opinion...
    He is falling into the same story this time without demons. The Iron Horde is being tricked by Garrosh like they were tricked by the demons. But, as a horde member since the original warcraft games. I will be honored to face Grom in battle. I just wish they would have at least given him the model he had in all the games rather then a generic orc model.
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

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