Israel commences ground offensive in Gaza

[Deleted]

Yes.
So, please, maybe word it better next time?

It was worded perfectly fine, you just read something that wasn't there...

[bayushisan]

You mean by military force against israel right?

Hardly.

The reality that practically every nation in the Middle East doesn't want them there. Not really. I have to wonder how many governments fund Hamas' terrorist tactics against Israel and yet get totally ignored for doing so.

This is not about politics and never has been. It's about religion. Period. They want the Holy Land for themselves and no one else. They want to drive the Jews and Christians out of the Middle East or kill them (that's been a Hamas thing for years, one that they openly state in Middle Eastern media regularly). You are free to stick your heads in the sand all you like, but don't expect me to and don't expect me to be silent about the truth because that's not happening.

In case you hadn't figured it out yet, I don't back down when I know I'm right and no amount of insults, denigration of my intelligence or remarks about my argumentation will make it otherwise.

[Endus]

Hardly.

The reality that practically every nation in the Middle East doesn't want them there. Not really. I have to wonder how many governments fund Hamas' terrorist tactics against Israel and yet get totally ignored for doing so.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/31/wo...rael.html?_r=1

In short, no. You're merely presenting a persecution complex that does not reflect the political reality.

[TZK203]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/31/wo...rael.html?_r=1

In short, no. You're merely presenting a persecution complex that does not reflect the political reality.

Well, great! This coalition could also allow those with Israeli passports into their country, but the UAE and Saudi Arabia prevent those with Israeli passports from staying there.

Perhaps they view both as terrorists? Hmm... or maybe they believe they have nothing to gain for siding with one or the other?

It's political games.

[Endus]

I'm not saying the Arab states love Israel. I'm saying the argument that they're united against Israel and supporting Hamas in their fight against them, that argument is objectively false.

[Deleted]

Hardly.

The reality that practically every nation in the Middle East doesn't want them there. Not really. I have to wonder how many governments fund Hamas' terrorist tactics against Israel and yet get totally ignored for doing so.

This is not about politics and never has been. It's about religion. Period. They want the Holy Land for themselves and no one else. They want to drive the Jews and Christians out of the Middle East or kill them (that's been a Hamas thing for years, one that they openly state in Middle Eastern media regularly). You are free to stick your heads in the sand all you like, but don't expect me to and don't expect me to be silent about the truth because that's not happening.

In case you hadn't figured it out yet, I don't back down when I know I'm right and no amount of insults, denigration of my intelligence or remarks about my argumentation will make it otherwise.

You're wrong under all accounts and proven so by history and facts, but feel free to come back as you please. We will all be waiting for your next outburst.

[TZK203]

You're wrong under all accounts and proven so by history and facts, but feel free to come back as you please. We will all be waiting for your next outburst.

Did you ever read the Hamas charter?

Not just snippets, the entirety of it.

[Deleted]

Yeah, steal more land. That'll help.

[lockedout]

Yeah, steal more land. That'll help.

They are only doing it because of the kidnapping and killing of the 3 israeli youths you ungrateful anti semite. Even though they announced it before the kids were even kidnapped, but that doesn't excuse the holocaust.


[Infracted]

[Deleted]

They are only doing it because of the kidnapping and killing of the 3 israeli youths you ungrateful anti semite. Even though they announced it before the kids were even kidnapped, but that doesn't excuse the holocaust.

Oh come fucking on. Did Britain invade the RoI when bombs went off in London? No, because they're not racist lunatics with a club-card with a million US Defence points.

And nice job on the Anti-Semite comment, when in doubt shout racist, flawless.

[Deleted]

Did you ever read the Hamas charter?

Not just snippets, the entirety of it.

Obviously not. Did you?
Where's the relevance in this? Apart obviously that "kill em all" line, which I never justified, defended or advocated in any way and that in no way takes any place in this discussion?

- - - Updated - - -

Oh come fucking on. Did Britain invade the RoI when bombs went off in London? No, because they're not racist lunatics with a club-card with a million US Defence points.

And nice job on the Anti-Semite comment, when in doubt shout racist, flawless.

Man... that was an ironic comment.

[Deleted]

Obviously not. Did you?
Where's the relevance in this? Apart obviously that "kill em all" line, which I never justified, defended or advocated in any way and that in no way takes any place in this discussion?

- - - Updated - - -



Man... that was an ironic comment.

Indeed it was.

Almost deliberately so. Nearly like I'm baiting a hairy creature that's not a bear.

[lockedout]

Indeed it was.

Almost deliberately so. Nearly like I'm baiting a hairy creature that's not a bear.

Sorry I forgot to use /sarcasm. I am on the palestinian side of this mess.

[Deleted]

Sorry I forgot to use /sarcasm. I am on the palestinian side of this mess.

Lol christ this thread has devolved so much we can't even tell each other apart.

Maybe that's a good thing in perspective, probably not.

[lockedout]

Lol christ this thread has devolved so much we can't even tell each other apart.

Maybe that's a good thing in perspective, probably not.

Reread my comment with sarcasm in mind.

[TZK203]

Obviously not. Did you?
Where's the relevance in this? Apart obviously that "kill em all" line, which I never justified, defended or advocated in any way and that in no way takes any place in this discussion?

I have.

It is relevant to the discussion because Hamas has the greater political power in Palestine. Even with a conglomerate of Arab states seeking to abandon them, they still lash out with a goal in mind.

Article Fifteen: The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Obligation
When our enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad becomes a duty binding on all Muslims. In order to face the usurpation of Palestine by the Jews, we have no escape from raising the banner of Jihad. This would require the propagation of Islamic consciousness among the masses on all local, Arab and Islamic levels. We must spread the spirit of Jihad among the [Islamic] Umma, clash with the enemies and join the ranks of the Jihad fighters. The ‘ulama as well as educators and teachers, publicity and media men as well as the masses of the educated, and especially the youth and the elders of the Islamic Movements, must participate in this raising of consciousness. There is no escape from introducing fundamental changes in educational curricula in order to cleanse them from all vestiges of the ideological invasion which has been brought about by orientalists and missionaries. That invasion had begun overtaking this area following the defeat of the Crusader armies by Salah a-Din el Ayyubi. The Crusaders had understood that they had no way to vanquish the Muslims unless they prepared the grounds for that with an ideological invasion which would confuse the thinking of Muslims, revile their heritage, discredit their ideals, to be followed by a military invasion. That was to be in preparation for the Imperialist invasion, as in fact [General] Allenby acknowledged it upon his entry to Jerusalem: “Now, the Crusades are over.” General Gouraud stood on the tomb of Salah a-Din and declared: “We have returned, O Salah-a-Din!” Imperialism has been instrumental in boosting the ideological invasion and deepening its roots, and it is still pursuing this goal. All this had paved the way to the loss of Palestine. We must imprint on the minds of generations of Muslims that the Palestinian problem is a religious one, to be dealt with on this premise. It includes Islamic holy sites such as the Aqsa Mosque, which is inexorably linked to the Holy Mosque as long as the Heaven and earth will exist, to the journey of the Messenger of Allah, be Allah’s peace and blessing upon him, to it, and to his ascension from it. “Dwelling one day in the Path of Allah is better than the entire world and everything that exists in it. The place of the whip of one among you in Paradise is better than the entire world and everything that exists in it. [God’s] worshiper’s going and coming in the Path of Allah is better than the entire world and everything that exists in it.” (Told by Bukhari, Muslim Tirmidhi and Ibn Maja) I swear by that who holds in His Hands the Soul of Muhammad! I indeed wish to go to war for the sake of Allah! I will assault and kill, assault and kill, assault and kill (told by Bukhari and Muslim).

To Hamas, Palestine is the entirety of the land Israel now currently controls. To them, it must be wrested from the "oppression" of the Zionists. To them, the only way to end this conflict is to regain the entirety of what is modern-day Israel and give it back to its "rightful owners." Peaceful solutions do not lead them towards this goal (they can only go so far before the terms become unacceptable, even if one side is generally agreeable to the demands), so fight they will.

I mean, let's face it: many people clamor that there was a land named Palestine before the Jews settled there as per UN resolutions. So it only seems logical to assume that when they mean Palestine, they mean the whole of Israel (and perhaps parts of Jordan and Lebanon, but mostly Israel).

[Deleted]

I have.

It is relevant to the discussion because Hamas has the greater political power in Palestine. Even with a conglomerate of Arab states seeking to abandon them, they still lash out with a goal in mind.



To Hamas, Palestine is the entirety of the land Israel now currently controls. To them, it must be wrested from the "oppression" of the Zionists. To them, the only way to end this conflict is to regain the entirety of what is modern-day Israel and give it back to its "rightful owners." Peaceful solutions do not lead them towards this goal, so fight they will.

I mean, let's face it: many people clamor that there was a land named Palestine before the Jews settled there as per UN resolutions. So it only seems logical to assume that when they mean Palestine, they mean the whole of Israel (and perhaps part of Jordan and Lebanon, but mostly Israel).

What a load of cock.
first off, Hamas is not the greater political power in Palestine. That would be abbas' coalition.
Israel has never negotiated with Hamas and never should if those are the premises.
Secondly *yawn* this is boring. Peace negotiations show us how deals cam be achieved. 2008 for example.

[Deleted]

I have.

It is relevant to the discussion because Hamas has the greater political power in Palestine. Even with a conglomerate of Arab states seeking to abandon them, they still lash out with a goal in mind.



To Hamas, Palestine is the entirety of the land Israel now currently controls. To them, it must be wrested from the "oppression" of the Zionists. To them, the only way to end this conflict is to regain the entirety of what is modern-day Israel and give it back to its "rightful owners." Peaceful solutions do not lead them towards this goal (they can only go so far before the terms become unacceptable, even if one side is generally agreeable to the demands), so fight they will.

I mean, let's face it: many people clamor that there was a land named Palestine before the Jews settled there as per UN resolutions. So it only seems logical to assume that when they mean Palestine, they mean the whole of Israel (and perhaps parts of Jordan and Lebanon, but mostly Israel).

Have you read the Likud party charter? Doesn't recognise Palestine, thinks Israel should be for Jewish people with others living as 'aliens'. Is Hamas then justified in taking violent steps, just as you seem to be trying to justify Israel's? Or, perhaps, both the charters (which are old. In 2010 Hamas said it no longer applies and Netanyahu has talked a little about a two-state solution) aren't reason enough for anything, and shouldn't be the basis on what political and diplomatic steps you take?

[TZK203]

What a load of cock.
first off, Hamas is not the greater political power in Palestine. That would be abbas' coalition.
Israel has never negotiated with Hamas and never should if those are the premises.
Secondly *yawn* this is boring. Peace negotiations show us how deals cam be achieved. 2008 for example.

2000 Camp David Summit would have been a good start... if it worked. The Israelis were generally alarmed by the never-ending conflicts, so they elected Ehud Barak to deal with a two-state solution. Clinton was the negotiator.

Ehud Barak offered Arafat an eventual 91% of the West Bank, and all of the Gaza Strip, with Palestinian control over Eastern Jerusalem as the capital of the new Palestinian state; in addition, all refugees could apply for compensation of property from an international fund to which Israel would contribute along with other countries. However, Arafat rejected the offer flat out.

I honestly have no clue why Arafat did that. International opinion did not support him for doing what he did at the time.

[Easo]

Just check the way he lived...