1. #1

    resto druid tier gear

    first time posting here, I cant see this thread anywhere else so hope this is fine

    My guild started raiding hc soo a few weeks ago.

    I am getting hc gear that if equipped would remove my normal gears 4 set bonus.

    What are the thoughts on losing your normal 2 and 4 piece bonuses to replace with HC gear? I was going to wait until I had 2 pieces of hc gear and then replace but thought I would ask here.

    thanks in advance and sorry if this is a daft question

    craig

  2. #2
    The two set is stronk. It might not equate a high throughput number, but having a instant 100k++ is priceless.

    The fourset is weak. It averages between 1-1.5% of my healing in 25 heroic, so I much like the vast majority of others have chosen to go with heroic warforged items in those slots, meaning the offstats i gain from breaking the 4set more or less makes up for the loss of bonus.
    ^ I agree with this.

  3. #3
    thanks no hc warforged yet though :P

  4. #4
    As far as I have understood the scaling, one average item level means 1% more stats, so if you get 1.5% from the 4-set bonus, you would need 24 single item levels to outperform the 4-set bonus. That means 12 item levels each for the two tier slots you take out, assuming equal gear slot weights (which they aren't). And, often the gear you can get as warforged comes with crit, which is a sub-optimal stat and reduce the value of that gear.

    With equal slot weights, and equally valuable secondary stats, ditching the 4-set bonus for warforged gear would only be viable if the 4-set bonus heals for less than 0.5 percent.

    Slot weights are not equal - especially chest and leg give more value than the other slots, but is the difference large enough to matter?

    Then there is of course the weighing of slightly more WG healing vs a tiny bit more healing in general.
    Hildrande: Resto Druid - Argent Dawn - EU. Logs, armory.

  5. #5
    The two piece is extremely strong for triage healing. The four piece isn't as good, but it's free healing - I just checked my logs, and it was 3-4% of my average boss healing last week (10man heroics - your mileage may vary in 25man). Our tier is all really well itemized, so if the heroic pieces you're getting are crit pieces, I wouldn't make the swap.

    Kinetic is recruiting for Warlords! (14/14H, US-Alexstrasza Alliance.)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Teryx View Post
    As far as I have understood the scaling, one average item level means 1% more stats, so if you get 1.5% from the 4-set bonus, you would need 24 single item levels to outperform the 4-set bonus. That means 12 item levels each for the two tier slots you take out, assuming equal gear slot weights (which they aren't). And, often the gear you can get as warforged comes with crit, which is a sub-optimal stat and reduce the value of that gear.

    With equal slot weights, and equally valuable secondary stats, ditching the 4-set bonus for warforged gear would only be viable if the 4-set bonus heals for less than 0.5 percent.

    Slot weights are not equal - especially chest and leg give more value than the other slots, but is the difference large enough to matter?

    Then there is of course the weighing of slightly more WG healing vs a tiny bit more healing in general.
    In a large scale generic experiment, working with averages is a good idea. In a closed ecosystem like our gear is right now, it is a moot approach.


    Goes without saying that you will not want to break up 4p for 2nd degree items like hcwf gloves/shoulder.

    You will be using tier leggings because the only leather alternative has crit on them.

    So you are basically down to getting the chest and head.

    The secondary stat gain from going from (assuming hc+4/4 upgrade in all cases)

    tier chest to amber parasite wraps
    166 secondary stats, 156 intellect

    tier head to Self-Reflecting mask:
    303 secondary stats, 156 intellect.


    303+166 = 469.

    You need 479 mastery per extra 1% of healing, so from secondary stats alone you will have picked up an additional 0.97% of healing from that. The assumption that all secondary stats equal mastery is safe to make at this point since we have far surpassed spirit/haste needs.

    In terms of intellect you will gain a total of 312, which is 1% increase in intellect if you are sitting around 31k intellect (which you will be come endgame).

    This totals to somewhere around 1.5 +- 0.25 increase in terms of percent.

    I have been running with the glyphed wildgrowth, and pairing it up with swiftmends (specced into SotF). This will decrease the buff you gain from 4set bonus (because you will be casting fewer wildgrowths than theoretically possible).

    As a result of this I only saw the bonus amounting to 1.5% of my total healing done, so I was down to either picking 1.5% stronger tranq/rejuv, or 1-2% of my healing coming from the enhanced wildgrowth.

    The difference is small, if you find yourself playing without the glyphed version of wildgrowth, and using it pretty much on CD, you are going to see an increase in healing coming from the bonus, and the math will shift over to possibly favoring playing with 4set bonus.


    There are also other things to keep in mind. In 25s raiding for instance, you have a whole lot of additional players you will reach with the wildgrowth, but then again you could also be putting out a whole lot of extra rejuvs.

    The "easy" choise is to play with 4set bonus because the low probability of being so lucky as to acquire both the two specific offpieces you really want to make this profitable.

    If you have reached BiS levels and can cherry pick items as you see fit, then you will probably want to go without 4piece for the stronger general healing.
    ^ I agree with this.

  7. #7
    I've recently taken my 4 set off for more ilvl/stats, but I'm at 588 ilvl, so your results may vary. I'm using the helm/legs for tier, mainly because RNG (you'd think after 30+ heroic kills, the WF helm would drop....)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Bzl View Post
    If you have reached BiS levels and can cherry pick items as you see fit, then you will probably want to go without 4piece for the stronger general healing.
    Great posts, thanks!
    Hildrande: Resto Druid - Argent Dawn - EU. Logs, armory.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by solidbear View Post
    I've recently taken my 4 set off for more ilvl/stats, but I'm at 588 ilvl, so your results may vary. I'm using the helm/legs for tier, mainly because RNG (you'd think after 30+ heroic kills, the WF helm would drop....)
    Word. That said, I just upgraded my tier gear with hc wf parasite wraps and then started upgrading my moonkin gear instead.

    On topic, I don't think I'd ever drop the 2set - progressing 10hc for the first month that was so invaluable, and even now it saves lives. Just make a decent weakaura and you're golden.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bzl View Post
    In a large scale generic experiment, working with averages is a good idea. In a closed ecosystem like our gear is right now, it is a moot approach.


    Goes without saying that you will not want to break up 4p for 2nd degree items like hcwf gloves/shoulder.

    You will be using tier leggings because the only leather alternative has crit on them.

    So you are basically down to getting the chest and head.

    The secondary stat gain from going from (assuming hc+4/4 upgrade in all cases)

    tier chest to amber parasite wraps
    166 secondary stats, 156 intellect

    tier head to Self-Reflecting mask:
    303 secondary stats, 156 intellect.


    303+166 = 469.

    You need 479 mastery per extra 1% of healing, so from secondary stats alone you will have picked up an additional 0.97% of healing from that. The assumption that all secondary stats equal mastery is safe to make at this point since we have far surpassed spirit/haste needs.

    In terms of intellect you will gain a total of 312, which is 1% increase in intellect if you are sitting around 31k intellect (which you will be come endgame).

    This totals to somewhere around 1.5 +- 0.25 increase in terms of percent.

    I have been running with the glyphed wildgrowth, and pairing it up with swiftmends (specced into SotF). This will decrease the buff you gain from 4set bonus (because you will be casting fewer wildgrowths than theoretically possible).

    As a result of this I only saw the bonus amounting to 1.5% of my total healing done, so I was down to either picking 1.5% stronger tranq/rejuv, or 1-2% of my healing coming from the enhanced wildgrowth.

    The difference is small, if you find yourself playing without the glyphed version of wildgrowth, and using it pretty much on CD, you are going to see an increase in healing coming from the bonus, and the math will shift over to possibly favoring playing with 4set bonus.


    There are also other things to keep in mind. In 25s raiding for instance, you have a whole lot of additional players you will reach with the wildgrowth, but then again you could also be putting out a whole lot of extra rejuvs.

    The "easy" choise is to play with 4set bonus because the low probability of being so lucky as to acquire both the two specific offpieces you really want to make this profitable.

    If you have reached BiS levels and can cherry pick items as you see fit, then you will probably want to go without 4piece for the stronger general healing.
    you should be using wg on cooldown eitherway, its a hps increase...
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyeranth View Post
    Why dont we just have thrall and Malfurion whip it out and someone can measure and then we can be done with it.
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    We know Deathwing's plan perfectly well.
    Bang Alexstrasza and Ysera
    Do lines of coke and have a bitchin' party for next ten thousand years

  11. #11
    I'm still rocking two set heroic T15 and two set heroic T16 but that's because I retired my Druid from progression after we downed Heroic Thok and needed to trim healers for the next three bosses.

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