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  1. #21
    I think it would get boring. It works nicely the way it is. I think DK is my favourite Melee rotation/priority system. I also play a paladin as my secondary main. I have in the past played feral druid, fury warrior, enh shaman. I don't care for rogues (or feral for that matter, I just leveled as feral) and I have not really gotten past about 60 on a monk yet. I like them but I just have other priorities.

    I am Shaman - Play Free Online Games
    FML... Shamans suck.

  2. #22
    Why do you think it would get boring?

  3. #23
    Project Updated

    There is now a new mock Talent Grid to accompany the 6 Death Rune design:

    Page1: (T56 - T90) http://mop-talent-grid-maker.appspot...gridId=4004001

    Page2: (T100) http://mop-talent-grid-maker.appspot...gridId=4014001

  4. #24
    I like that epidemic talent, and your version of remorseless winter could actually be a better substitute for Breath of Sindragosa. Epidemic reminds me of wandering plague, and got I miss that.

    I'd actually like to see Wandering Plague brought back to the Unholy kit.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by valliant13 View Post
    I like that epidemic talent, and your version of remorseless winter could actually be a better substitute for Breath of Sindragosa. Epidemic reminds me of wandering plague, and got I miss that.

    I'd actually like to see Wandering Plague brought back to the Unholy kit.
    Thanks for the positive comments!

    Yes, the old Wandering Plague was glorious. Epidemic is the closest thing to WP that I could imagine without being problematic.

    I agree about Remorseless Winter. BoS just doesn't fit with our toolkit IMO. And what we have currently should not be named Remorseless Winter in the first place; It doesn't even do damage.

  6. #26
    Project Updated

    ~ Injected more interesting gameplay into the Blood spec: Risk vs reward regarding damage vs healing, but with a safety valve.

    ~ Frost was altered slightly, gaining an additional proc: "Chill of the Grave".

    ~ Couple of talents in the mock grid changed. Death Chill would be a new channeled ability to compete with Infest and Army of the Dead.
    Last edited by The Clash; 2014-08-24 at 11:21 AM.

  7. #27
    We will never get anything like this, way too many rotational abilities.
    Blizzard made it clear they wanted to cut down on necessary buttons, having 8-9(not counting utility and cooldowns) would be too much.
    You cannot trust, nor take seriously, an adult male without facial hair.Boys have no facial hair and boys are not men.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by zoomgpally View Post
    We will never get anything like this, way too many rotational abilities.
    Blizzard made it clear they wanted to cut down on necessary buttons, having 8-9(not counting utility and cooldowns) would be too much.
    I think the point of this thread is to illustrate that a one color rune system would be viable, not actually reinvent the class. Your point is totally correct, but I don't think that's what this is about is all.
    Don't confuse me with the US-Slant. I'm the EU-Slant. :P

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by zoomgpally View Post
    We will never get anything like this, way too many rotational abilities.
    Blizzard made it clear they wanted to cut down on necessary buttons, having 8-9(not counting utility and cooldowns) would be too much.
    I'm not sure where you're getting the 8-9 rotational abilities? We would actually use less buttons with this design compared to the current plan for WoD. We would utilize only one ability per spec to apply a single disease opposed to the 3-4 abilities we use now. And any new active abilities I have placed in the talent grid are countered by at least one option that is not rotational.


    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I think the point of this thread is to illustrate that a one color rune system would be viable, not actually reinvent the class. Your point is totally correct, but I don't think that's what this is about is all.
    My main objective was to show that it could be done, and that the gameplay could mimic very closely the rune system that we have used for so many years. But, this design also brings much needed flexibility that our current design lacks. Flexibility in personal gameplay. And also flexibility for additional abilities and/or mechanics in the future. We are currently backed into a corner with the current rune system. No way out. Unless big changes, such as this, are made. Is a "6 of the same rune type" system the answer? I don't know. But I have spent a lot of time going over different iterations of change for DKs. This is the only design I feel comfortable saying that it will solve all of our problems.

  10. #30
    Talent grid is well thought out, Frost has a very good cohesive theme and implementation. Actually very blooming nice.

    I'd ask quickly about CDs for Frost - in this system, I'd assume they retain PoF? I couldn't see it (could be dumb :P)

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    My main objective was to show that it could be done, and that the gameplay could mimic very closely the rune system that we have used for so many years. But, this design also brings much needed flexibility that our current design lacks. Flexibility in personal gameplay. And also flexibility for additional abilities and/or mechanics in the future. We are currently backed into a corner with the current rune system. No way out. Unless big changes, such as this, are made. Is a "6 of the same rune type" system the answer? I don't know. But I have spent a lot of time going over different iterations of change for DKs. This is the only design I feel comfortable saying that it will solve all of our problems.
    What you're suggesting was basically the original DK concept in the WotLK Beta. They used to let you choose which color of runes you have (the original runeforges). They abandoned the idea when they realised that everyone was just getting 6 blood runes to spam Heartstrike, as that was the biggest DPS gain (and that even carried over into live, albeit with slight differences, diseaseless rota was horrrible).

    I think they did have a point. Allowing your preferred rune did reduce the available choices to a minimum. Of course, back then the choice of spells was not hardcoded into the specs as it is these days. I think your system has a lot of merit under the current class design dogma.

    I do see a variety of other solutions for the mess that class balance is at these days, however. I think having three colored runes is not necessarily the problem itself. It's more that Blizzard is fumbling about in general when it comes to class design and doesn't utilise the rune system as it should be used. See, if I took your spells and simply applied the colors evenly among those spells, I essentially gain the same effect that you do, a smooth rotation. That is what Blizzard is failing at. And while your way is a solution, it's more of a really effective bandaid than an actual solution to the underlying problem... developers that don't understand the class and when theorycrafters tell (and mathematically show) them how the class works, they dismiss it... even the brightest ideas cannot cure ignorance.

    Good effort, though! I like it.
    Don't confuse me with the US-Slant. I'm the EU-Slant. :P

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Helwinter View Post
    Talent grid is well thought out, Frost has a very good cohesive theme and implementation. Actually very blooming nice.

    I'd ask quickly about CDs for Frost - in this system, I'd assume they retain PoF? I couldn't see it (could be dumb :P)
    Thanks Helwinter, I'm glad you like it!

    On the topic of cooldowns, I just didn't bother listing abilities without an actual resource cost. I see no reason to change DRW, PoF or Summon Gargoyle. They work well thematically IMO.




    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    What you're suggesting was basically the original DK concept in the WotLK Beta. They used to let you choose which color of runes you have (the original runeforges). They abandoned the idea when they realised that everyone was just getting 6 blood runes to spam Heartstrike, as that was the biggest DPS gain (and that even carried over into live, albeit with slight differences, diseaseless rota was horrrible).

    I think they did have a point. Allowing your preferred rune did reduce the available choices to a minimum. Of course, back then the choice of spells was not hardcoded into the specs as it is these days. I think your system has a lot of merit under the current class design dogma.

    I do see a variety of other solutions for the mess that class balance is at these days, however. I think having three colored runes is not necessarily the problem itself. It's more that Blizzard is fumbling about in general when it comes to class design and doesn't utilise the rune system as it should be used. See, if I took your spells and simply applied the colors evenly among those spells, I essentially gain the same effect that you do, a smooth rotation. That is what Blizzard is failing at. And while your way is a solution, it's more of a really effective bandaid than an actual solution to the underlying problem... developers that don't understand the class and when theorycrafters tell (and mathematically show) them how the class works, they dismiss it... even the brightest ideas cannot cure ignorance.

    Good effort, though! I like it.
    Thanks for the feedback Slant!

    There are some fundamental problems with our 3 colored rune system. The biggest issue you can have is rune isolation. And currently, that problem is being dodged left and right by very shady means. The cost of Death & Decay for Blood is a big problem; Crimson Scourge doesn't solve the problem when you're entering combat. We have Plague Strike applying FF and BP for Unholy just to solve rune isolation, yet they still need to address the exact same issue for AoE. Soul Reaper can even cause rune isolation for 2H Frost and that can't be fixed at all. And then there is the addition of potential new abilities. How will they ever work when each spec uses a different form of the rune system? We have no room for growth in the current design. My "6 rune" design not only solves those problems, but allows that room for growth.

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