Next meta Patch.

[minteK917]

With TI4 coming to an end soon, this is the time in DOTA when an upcoming major patch will see the light in the near future. Lets see if we can predict some of the changes.

Heres what i think: In general some heroes that are too multi situational will most likely receive changes. Early push might also see some of its heroes nerfed some.

-Doom, while doom is not the most powerful hero on his own. Its still a problem that hes pretty much impossible to take out of the game even while behind. Doom has an ability in itself is probably in the top 5 ultimate. While a hero having this ability is not bad, the problem is that doom has no real weakness to exploit when played as the 3rd position that he is, either offlane or jungle. Hes very hard to kill, requires alot of commitment, despite his low armor early, he has massive regen and huge base hp. Even if you manage to slow his farm, he will still catch up on gold. Icefrog is unlikely going to nerf his ultimate, but perhaps his unstoppable farm is where it should be looked at.

-Lycan, we did not see him much in this tournament, because hes always banned. The few time he was picked where some of the shortest games in the tournament. In pubs i personally play him alot, hes pretty much the king of the current early push game that taken both competitive and pub by storm. What is the problem with Lycan? You literally need your whole team to commit to stop this guy, so if hes teamed with another pusher or another of the unstoppable early beast (doom). You are gona have a bad day. Lycan has some of the easiest possible laning phase of any melee with the wolves, his ultimate gives him the ability to become a carry that is super hard to run away or chase very early in the game, way before most. His early damage naked with a vlads is something only ursa comes close and ursa is not even close against buildings. Ursa does not benefit from the mobility lycan has either.

-Tidehunter, Anchor smash will probably get a nerf. Another of the heroes that can do alot, yet are too hard to shut down. He gets his farm no matter what. Anchor smash is part of the problem.

-Shadow Shaman, its likely this hero will see some change. Hes part of the early push meta, hes the kind of hero that makes hero like CM go unpicked. He has better control and brings both better teamfights and better push. Theres no hero that really directly counter what he does, as long as he can drop the ult before he dies, more often then not its all hes gona need to do.

I can see some other heroes changes, but to me thats the obvious ones.


Item changes: Refresher, i still remember the day while you could pass refresher to your whole team and have everyone refresh spells. Even after all these nerfs, refresher is still an item that is too much sometimes. Too many good ults, too many reason to pick up a refresher on too many heroes. The way the game evolved now, refresher is just a pick for too many heroes in pretty much any situations, while nerfing things like double stacking eye of the storm, might be a good idea, theres just too many ability that push refresher into a must have if it goes on too long.

Perhaps its time for refresher to go the way of the buyback change and go on to a more timed way, simply remove the item and let everyone only have one shot at their spells. There could be nerf to it, but at this point i just think deleting it for the game can only be good, nothing would be lost. Except perhaps fun trolling in pubs.

Must have changes because dota patch:

Buff to bloodseeker.
-1 armor to wk


What changes do you all see coming in the near future?

[Sarevokcz]

I dont see a reason to nerf any of those heroes, lycan requires the other team to adjust their playstyle, which is osmething team just opt out of, same reason why bat was first banned for years, people didnt want to deal with his innitiation. doom is annoying, but he is supposed to be quick farmer, and give him several doom-worthy targets and suddenly you dont have to fear him as much as he wont shut down the one big teamfight ulti you were counting on. anchor smash was just buffed, why should it be nerfed? I dont think he s even at 50% winrate at ti4, because people actually ward his ancients. and rhasta nerf just because hes good pusher? well gee, maybe people need to adjust their playstyle and picks to deal with him if they let him through...

[Deleted]

I dont see a reason to nerf any of those heroes, lycan requires the other team to adjust their playstyle, which is osmething team just opt out of, same reason why bat was first banned for years, people didnt want to deal with his innitiation. doom is annoying, but he is supposed to be quick farmer, and give him several doom-worthy targets and suddenly you dont have to fear him as much as he wont shut down the one big teamfight ulti you were counting on. anchor smash was just buffed, why should it be nerfed? I dont think he s even at 50% winrate at ti4, because people actually ward his ancients. and rhasta nerf just because hes good pusher? well gee, maybe people need to adjust their playstyle and picks to deal with him if they let him through...

I'm sure if there was a hero that at level 1 would just 1 shot the map, you would suggest everyone to just adjust their playstyle and picks to deal with him.

TI is the perfect competition to see which hero needs a nerf/a buff and what needs to change in general. When you have 120 matches played and yet some heroes are never picked, some heroes are almost always picked and some heroes are almost always banned, you know something needs to change.

Since you gave Batrider as an example, he had 100% pick/ban rate for months while he kept getting nerfed over and over until the current nerf(which lowered his 100% pick/ban rate).

[Hermanni]

I see literally no reason to nerf a hero like Rhasta just because he got popular.

[Deleted]

Nerf naga

Nerf DP ulti

That is all.

[Jester Joe]

I don't think they'll change refreshers that much honestly, it's such a situational item already.

Even looking at it's history of nerfs and buffs, it's only gotten buffed throughout Dota 2 it seems.

If anything, maybe they'll increase the CD on it, but I can't see much past that, it's already pretty expensive for it.

[Sarevokcz]

I'm sure if there was a hero that at level 1 would just 1 shot the map, you would suggest everyone to just adjust their playstyle and picks to deal with him.

TI is the perfect competition to see which hero needs a nerf/a buff and what needs to change in general. When you have 120 matches played and yet some heroes are never picked, some heroes are almost always picked and some heroes are almost always banned, you know something needs to change.

Since you gave Batrider as an example, he had 100% pick/ban rate for months while he kept getting nerfed over and over until the current nerf(which lowered his 100% pick/ban rate).

so you say TI is a perfect opportunity to see which heroes need nerfs, then you suggest TIDE, that doesnt break 50% winrate at TI, to recieve a nerf? WHere is the logic in that?

And yes, adjusting playstyle and strategies is the answer to plenty of heroes, if you let naga through, you need a plan if she gets picked, if you let io/prophet/tinker through, you need to have plan, if you let lycan or rhasta through, you need a different plans, maybe if teams werent so damn greedy against all those obvious push lineups, rhasta wouldnt be as popular or succesful

[minteK917]

This thread is not about why you think the game wont change, its predicting what will get changed. Doesent matter what anyone says, there will be a patch with changes. Its funny that you bring up batride, io...... they did get nerfed right after TI. Those are my guess at what might get changed.

[Hermanni]

This thread is not about why you think the game wont change, its predicting what will get changed. Doesent matter what anyone says, there will be a patch with changes. Its funny that you bring up batride, io...... they did get nerfed right after TI. Those are my guess at what might get changed.

And I'd predict none of the heroes you listed will see real nerfs because they don't need any. As a matter of fact I don't think many balance changes to heroes are necessary, if something will happen I'd expect buffs to heroes like Lina and having more heroes added to CM.

[Omertocracy]

As a matter of fact I don't think many balance changes to heroes are necessary

I'd argue that Lycan needs a nerf somewhere, but damned if I know what.

Bump Lina's Str gain by .25? Give CM back 5-10 movespeed and maybe a couple damage?

Although now that I think about it, Drow could use some more Agi scaling or base damage.ϰ

[Yuanrang]

If Lycan was picked or banned 122 out of 123 games in the first Bo1 series to qualify for the top 10 spots at the start of The International 4, and he was, I think that merits a very close examination on how to balance him.

Lycan is probably going to be changed up somewhat, and since the HP nerf did not work, they'll likely target his illusiveness (since they usually do not nerf the strengths to the ground, so he's bound to be a tower demolisher, but he might actually be subject to slows or have a lower movement speed).

The alternative is that Icefrog considers him to be illusive and not a tower demolisher, and thus nerfing his damage output on the towers while keeping his ultimate as it is.

Either way, he needs a damn change. He has so many win conditions, playing him is just outright boring.

[Deleted]

so you say TI is a perfect opportunity to see which heroes need nerfs, then you suggest TIDE, that doesnt break 50% winrate at TI, to recieve a nerf? WHere is the logic in that?

And yes, adjusting playstyle and strategies is the answer to plenty of heroes, if you let naga through, you need a plan if she gets picked, if you let io/prophet/tinker through, you need to have plan, if you let lycan or rhasta through, you need a different plans, maybe if teams werent so damn greedy against all those obvious push lineups, rhasta wouldnt be as popular or succesful

I don't think I suggested Tide nerfed anywhere I think you have me confused.

Personally I believe Lycan needs a major overhaul/something. Its stupid asking the 2nd pick time to always first ban him. I also believe something needs to happen to Doombringer

[Hermanni]

If Lycan was picked or banned 122 out of 123 games in the first Bo1 series to qualify for the top 10 spots at the start of The International 4, and he was, I think that merits a very close examination on how to balance him.

Lycan is probably going to be changed up somewhat, and since the HP nerf did not work, they'll likely target his illusiveness (since they usually do not nerf the strengths to the ground, so he's bound to be a tower demolisher, but he might actually be subject to slows or have a lower movement speed).

The alternative is that Icefrog considers him to be illusive and not a tower demolisher, and thus nerfing his damage output on the towers while keeping his ultimate as it is.

Either way, he needs a damn change. He has so many win conditions, playing him is just outright boring.

If the hero doesn't see play then it makes no sense to make judgement on balance. Naga was banned 90% of games in TI2 and had like 30% winrate when picked. Teams not wanting to deal with a hero =! hero being too powerful. Lycan does better than that (though the win rate for teams who banned him in main event is 38%), but I don't consider the hero that strong, just difficult to deal with for the unprepared teams.

[Deletedaccount1]

Buff CM I really miss her.

[veiledy0]

Buff Crystal Maiden indeed. Make her ult a fire and forget, like Gyro's, and reduce the mana cost. That would bring her in line with a lot of other superior supports like AA, Rhasta, Lion, Dazzle, etc. who get to cast their other spells alongside the ult.

[minteK917]

Buff Crystal Maiden indeed. Make her ult a fire and forget, like Gyro's, and reduce the mana cost. That would bring her in line with a lot of other superior supports like AA, Rhasta, Lion, Dazzle, etc. who get to cast their other spells alongside the ult.

That could actually be nice, would warrant her current shitty stats. The cast range should probably be really short though.

[Sarevokcz]

Buff Crystal Maiden indeed. Make her ult a fire and forget, like Gyro's, and reduce the mana cost. That would bring her in line with a lot of other superior supports like AA, Rhasta, Lion, Dazzle, etc. who get to cast their other spells alongside the ult.

CM ulti has too much potential damage to be fire and forget spell, i think consistent damage in the whole radius would be better choice than random shards that can not hit anything when unlucky or melt 2k HP hero in two seconds if lucky.

[Keldarin]

I think it would be better if it was channeled, but not centered on CM. Standing in the middle there really makes her an obvious target and she's low on nukes as it is.

[Deleted]

The best thing with doom except his superb ability to always come back into a game when shut down, is how the ability doom just counters so many heroes. Strips away their passives that make them what they are and combined with aghs the person need to be in a group or is 100% dead.
You can play him as carry, ganker, tank, utility and he will always do a great job.
The ability to silence and strip all passives is godly strong.

Lycan is pretty much broken if the person behind the keyboard can play the hero. Takes atleast 2 people (often 3) to stop him and his ability to push down towers without much gear is unrivaled. If you dont have naga or bane waiting for him he will slip away easily.

Dont know about the other two. Feel like ES almost got as much play as tide this TI but both are great at their job. Shaman is always solid but cant tell if he should get the stick or not.

[StrawberryZebra]

Buff CM I really miss her.

I'd like to see some CM buffs too, but unlike others I don't think her ult is the right place outright buffing. Its potential damage is huge, it covers a massive area and has a decent slow attached to boot. Any changes to make it more useable will probably have to come at a cost to its power, and thats fine but it would average out more as rebalancing the skill rather than just buffing it. I'd much prefer it to be a skill you could actually use without being insta-gibbed, even if that does come at a cost of some of its raw power.
Alternatively she could also use a buff small to her move speed and/or base stats. At the moment shes slow, extremely fragile and has poor damage and as strong as her skill set is, it doesn't make up for all of these weaknesses by itself.

I'd also like to see something done with Vanguard, it gives you barely more than the sum of its components and quickly loses its relevance for most heroes. Most of the time I feel as if you're better off getting a Mek instead. Maybe letting you disassemble it would make it a more worthwhile pick up, so you can reuse the components for better items later on.

Early push might also see some of its heroes nerfed some.

I don't see this happening, outside of Lycan perhaps. I think that early pushing should be one of many viable ways to achieve a win, and I don't think its really been dominant enough for nerfs to early pushers across the board.