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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    I don't understand why they must spend tons of time each expansion to basically rewrite our classes...where is the value in having to "relearn" classes each and every bloody expansion?

    Maybe they'd have loads more time on their hands if they didn't do this and simply allowed us to play the class we play the way that we have been for the past expansion.
    They aren't doing it to force players to relearn classes, they are doing it because they are refining how the game works and plays. Blizzard has been quite explicit especially in this beta about what their thought process is and why they make some of the design decisions that they do. Perhaps try reading more of that and whining mindlessly less.

    I'm not even sure why this is even a complaint now when much of the current work on Wod involves new systems and tweaks to existing systems. The real class tweaking and tuning hasn't even started yet and won't until after raid/pvp testing begins.

    There is also the fact it is their game to design as they wish. You don't get to decide how classes play and never have and this isn't how any game has ever worked before so I don't know why Blizzard catches hell for daring to design the game like any other game designer would.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lunchbox2042 View Post
    It feels like they've given up on putting out quality and have decided to just put out what's done.
    Based on what exactly? Mindless hate?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarch the Subduer View Post
    What does that have to do with anything though? That never was the case, yet it's still quite obvious that this ""beta"" is being rushed in comparison. Honestly it feels more like an alpha, they started 'stress testing' before they even managed to get a stable build out.
    Why the fuck wouldn't it matter? What is on beta realms now is NOT the current state of Wod. A majority of builds never even get pushed to beta realms because they are tested internally. Every single time one of you doomsayers starts up moronic bullshit about the beta, the very next build that gets pushed makes all of you look like the mindless haters you are.

  2. #42
    I think they're feeling some pressure with the stutter-step they hit from losing staff members. They're going to lean back harder than before on 'fix it after release' this time, I'm betting.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monksrus View Post
    I saw this and was quite surprised to be honest: https://twitter.com/Bashiok/status/490187297519042560

    I dont know exactly what those faction outposts will look like (maybe theyll be better than how they sound?) but in every expansion Blizz have made time to create a decent faction hub. The fact that many people see WoD as having far fewer features than previous xpacs and that a lot of people will be spending much of their online time there doesnt sound too good....

    If theyre diverting resources by creating lite versions of faction hubs, what are they spending their resources on? Do you think some other game's internal development is hogging those resources or maybe updating the character models is taking up all the art team's time?

    Considering where the expansion is in development right now and after playing beta, this is the first time an xpac feels "rushed" to me :S
    Yay I made a comment on this same thing. If you notice Talann Leighton about 6 comments down from bashiok... thats me. Just as Draekin pointed out, I feel like they are trying to come up with any excuse they can instead of just admitting they are cutting corners because they feel the pressure of the new MMOs.

    I believe the real question will be, what is the subscriber count at right now and is that influencing their decision to cut content and release the game sooner?

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by WanderingBreezes View Post
    There's a fairly good chance of that not being far from the truth considering the unspoken delay from the beginning of this year. Repeating myself, I know, but people keep forgetting about this.


    Warlords of Draenor™—Scouting Report [January 16th]
    At Blizzcon, we were told that beta was "sooner than we think" (I believe this was on the front page of this website).

    Like I said awhile back, there's definitely something messed up internally that stunted the development of this expansion. Perhaps it was people leaving for other companies or having to reorganize design teams coming in from Titan. Hopefully, they've got it together now so they can actually work on the expansion efficiently.

    Luckily, they're pushing out content like the Gaze of the Black Prince buff that's keeping a lot of people entertained in the meantime.
    Last edited by Pennoyer; 2014-07-21 at 04:08 PM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarch the Subduer View Post
    They can both rush content and be too slow with releasing it, which in this case is what seems to have happened, because it feels as if they didn't actually start developing it until a few months ago.
    Because i'm sure that converting your entire game into another format is gonna be a cakewalk, and only take atleast 2 weeks time.
    People were crying in waits for CRZ, and think it takes 2 devs around 1 month just to seamlessly merge 7 servers together, without any technical problems arising at all.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monksrus View Post
    Ok I should add this is the first wow beta Ive ever been in....but it feels more like an alphas to me - maybe my conception of what levels alpha/beta should be at during development isnt realistic?

    Maybe I dont have a good grasp of art team resources and how long certain things take to make but we're just talking about capitol cities. They have made good ones until now and suddenly were going to get tents on the outskirts of Ashran - this really does feel like cutting corners considering we're not getting a whole slew of features either instead.

    Imaging wotlk without Dalaran or tbc without shattrath but rather some huts and vendors in their place.....wouldnt be quite the same.

    I find it funny that they have still managed to crank out lots of store mounts/pets in the last few months though.
    "Lots of store mounts/pets in the last few months." What constitutes lots? A handful in the last several months?

    I think you're being unreasonable, actually. I personally didn't find Shattrath to be all that great. Shattrath was more or less just a large circular structure that was convenient to stay in because of it's location and it was home to the forced grind faction of the expansion. Design-wise it was pretty barebones. Dalaran was at least a lot more complex and felt like a city.

    As unpopular as the idea is, I feel that having the small base of operations on the outskirts of the PvP zone is more authentic than if we just showed up on Draenor and camped out in a major lore area. We're supposed to be just getting there to stop the current threat, so it makes more sense that we just have a little fortified encampment rather than a full on city. Would I like a giant city? Yup. Am I sad/angry/emo/ranting on tumblr that I'm not getting one? Not really. At the end of the day they could just put a signpost down with a repair/reagent vendor crate on the ground, some portals nearby, and an innkeeper and it would be good enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by talann View Post
    I feel like they are trying to come up with any excuse they can instead of just admitting they are cutting corners because they feel the pressure of the new MMOs.
    I don't like to get into the drama-y aspects of posts like this, but I just have to ask as someone who has tried every new MMO in the last year aside from ArchAge ... *WHAT* pressure from *WHAT* MMOs? ESO was a colossal failure sadly, and my high pop at launch Wildstar server is already a ghost town. WoW is still the only relevant MMO as sad as that is.
    Last edited by RoKPaNda; 2014-07-21 at 04:11 PM.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monksrus View Post
    I saw this and was quite surprised to be honest: https://twitter.com/Bashiok/status/490187297519042560

    I dont know exactly what those faction outposts will look like (maybe theyll be better than how they sound?) but in every expansion Blizz have made time to create a decent faction hub. The fact that many people see WoD as having far fewer features than previous xpacs and that a lot of people will be spending much of their online time there doesnt sound too good....

    If theyre diverting resources by creating lite versions of faction hubs, what are they spending their resources on? Do you think some other game's internal development is hogging those resources or maybe updating the character models is taking up all the art team's time?

    Considering where the expansion is in development right now and after playing beta, this is the first time an xpac feels "rushed" to me :S
    It makes me wonder as well. Considering that WoD has been in development for such a long time, I really don't understand why they have to cut content. I pointed this out in another thread: I sincerely believe they've got organizational problems. They can't organize. They're too big. Work isn't being done.
    Why? I have no idea. But that's the impression I'm getting.

  8. #48
    Of course it feels incomplete, it's beta. We don't even have access to all the zones yet. Blizzard betas are not marketing betas, they are actual betas with features broken, things missing, and incomplete content. Blizzard betas take forever, we see this every time there is a new expansion. Blizzard makes changes, they remove some features, put others on hold until the end of time (I'm looking at you dance studio).

    Hundreds of people make threads just like this one complaining about something. I think you guys forget about the Cataclysm alpha/beta where they had to rework most of old Azeroth. Now that was a long beta. Guys, go play a different game. We're going to be in 5.4 a very long time. Tell you what, go check out this game while you wait. http://www.archeagegame.com/en/

    The game is ArchAge, it's a great game, lots of fun. A true open world, class system is solid. HUGE on crafting. Naval warfare.

    There is always GW2, ESO, Rift, Tera, Aion. Just stop with these threads, please.

  9. #49
    The philosophy "it's done when it's done" is easier to implement when the stakes are smaller. Like with a new game, at most you'll have a few loud pre-order people shout if the game is delayed.

    At this point with wow they also have to measure in the amount of time it has been since their customers / subscribers have had new content, previous promises of faster content. And the effects on the company's worth, if they decide to "push" the release past their already planned and paid for deadline.

    Pushing the deadline further will cost you money in form of: loss in subscription numbers/possibly permanent loss of subscriptions + Developer wages.
    And all you get is
    A shinier product, in this case: People will be afk in karabor/bladespire instead of Ashran camps And You'll be building your garrison in any zone as promised, but ultimately you'll still only have one garrison, and it will contain the same buildings regardless of wether you wanted to build it in frostridge or tanaan jungle.

    When you push a deadline, you're literally just throwing away money, unless you recieve a large enough boost in sales compared to if you didn't push the deadline.

    Getting wod in the hands of the players is better overall for

    1) Impatient players looking to play the next installment of an old series, many of which will jump straight to endgame regardless of where the capitol cities are.

    2) Sales now, so you can fund the next project you're going to be working on.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by g01851 View Post
    What they should have done is started with basic faction hubs, then add features with patches in WoD, i.e. 6.1, 6.2, 6.3 etc. A faction 'garrison' of sorts.

    They've done this before, right? Why not now. Would add something to each patch.
    Probably because they already have other content and features planned for Wod patches. I don't know, just a thought. People need to lay off the armchair developer nonsense.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennoyer View Post
    At Blizzcon, we were told that beta was "sooner than we think" (I believe this was on the front page of this website).

    Like I said awhile back, there's definitely something messed up internally that stunted the development of this expansion. Perhaps it was people leaving for other companies or having to reorganize design teams coming in from Titan. Hopefully, they've got it together now so they can actually work on the expansion efficiently.

    Luckily, they're pushing out content like the Gaze of the Black Prince buff that's keeping a lot of people entertained in the meantime.
    the thing it was, it was going to come out sooner then we thought. they then went and redid things because they didnt like them, which put them behind.
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratyrel View Post
    Imo players will be spending a lot of time in their Garrisons as well; the lack of a unique faction hub may not be as problematical,
    One might say it's even intended that players be in their Garrisons, not in the hubs.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarch the Subduer View Post
    They can both rush content and be too slow with releasing it, which in this case is what seems to have happened, because it feels as if they didn't actually start developing it until a few months ago.
    And yet the experience of people who are actually in beta is vastly, vastly different from your very biased negative view of it. I'm sorry but people like you are absolutely full of it.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    I don't understand why they must spend tons of time each expansion to basically rewrite our classes...where is the value in having to "relearn" classes each and every bloody expansion?

    Maybe they'd have loads more time on their hands if they didn't do this and simply allowed us to play the class we play the way that we have been for the past expansion.

    my thought on this is if they never changed classes and just kept the same old same old this game would of died from not being intervative enough long ago

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    One might say it's even intended that players be in their Garrisons, not in the hubs.
    Yet they have said time after time that they didn't like player housing because they felt people would not interact with the community anymore. I don't have a source but I am fairly certain they have said this. I am just paraphrasing.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Monksrus View Post
    Ok I should add this is the first wow beta Ive ever been in....but it feels more like an alphas to me - maybe my conception of what levels alpha/beta should be at during development isnt realistic?

    Maybe I dont have a good grasp of art team resources and how long certain things take to make but we're just talking about capitol cities. They have made good ones until now and suddenly were going to get tents on the outskirts of Ashran - this really does feel like cutting corners considering we're not getting a whole slew of features either instead.

    Imaging wotlk without Dalaran or tbc without shattrath but rather some huts and vendors in their place.....wouldnt be quite the same.

    I find it funny that they have still managed to crank out lots of store mounts/pets in the last few months though.
    I think it is funny that you people hang on to this Blizzard store hate to justify your ignorant rants on topics you clearly don't know one fucking thing about.

    The whole point of a beta is that it is software that is a work in progress which Wod clearly is. Trying to claim it is an alpha (while stating you don't have any clue what you are talking about no less) says more about your motivations than your ignorance.

  17. #57
    My impression is that they're simply weary of WoW at this point. It's a dated game that is still doing very well for itself but the current team of developers just seems to lack the passion and enthusiasm of those who have departed over the years. Though even after eleven months without any fresh content there's plenty of people rushing to defend Blizzard and so they can essentially get away with it.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Naxere View Post
    I wonder if Alex Afrasiabi is having flashbacks to his EQ: Gates of Discord days.
    We could only hope. Although GoD was a train wreck OoW, the expansion released following it, was in my opinion one of the best EQ expansions.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    On karabor/bladespire they are taking hits because it's something they showed at Blizzcon and then, nine months later, casually said "Oh yeah, not doing that." Part of the anger was dropping it, but a good chunk of it was Mumper's casual tweet about it followed by Lore's bullshit explanation which was an obvious lie. If they'd come out and said "Look, we really hoped to do this, but nailing the models, the dungeons and the raids has set us back and it's not going to happen, we're sorry about that" a lot of the annoyance would have been muted. Especially if they'd committed to opening them in 6.1 or something. I've always felt that the flight issue was due in part to the fact that to give us flight they have to 3D render the world and that perhaps they didn't have time. I still think that's the case for 6.0/WoD release.

    GC has said in the past that design at Blizzard is very consensus driven... that could be part of the issue. No matter how good your development team is, you have to finish the design and give it to them far enough ahead that they can actually build it.

    Class-wise I also wonder why they feel the need to mess with things that aren't broken like Moonkin, etc. Yes, it feels new... but GC again noted that one of the reasons people gave for quitting was having to relearn, again, their class.
    The fact that you and others routinely use words like "anger" in regards to a video game just shows many of you seriously need to take a step back and get some perspective. Attitudes like yours are why Blizzard keeps us at arms length.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by talann View Post
    Yet they have said time after time that they didn't like player housing because they felt people would not interact with the community anymore. I don't have a source but I am fairly certain they have said this. I am just paraphrasing.
    Perhaps they think that Timeless Isle style interaction is sufficient (or even preferable, compared to standing-around-a-city and spamming Trade Chat interaction). So maybe the hub shrinkage in WoD can be attributed to the success of the TI experiment.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

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