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  1. #41
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Isn't the majority of Hearthstone done with commissioned fan-art anyway?
    pretty sure all of hearthstone's card art was taken from the WoW TCG. Not really "fan-art."
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
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  2. #42
    They sure expanded games anyways!

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    They sure expanded games anyways! Compared to years ago when they had wow and sc

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  3. #43
    Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm have separate teams from wow who were recruited to them not transferred to them

  4. #44
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrinvisable2 View Post
    Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm have separate teams from wow who were recruited to them not transferred to them
    Well, a few were set to those teams as a build up, rest recruited. Though, moving some shouldn't be felt so much as people seem to believe. They were after all moved a while back.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrinvisable2 View Post
    Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm have separate teams from wow who were recruited to them not transferred to them
    I disagree, I have read many times about people getting transferred to go to X. I don't doubt that they hire new people, but to say they don't transfer any over is disingenuous.
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  6. #46
    Warchief MickM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phookah View Post
    Those art resources wouldn't exist if those games weren't around.
    Maybe a few would have joined the WOW-team, but that's it.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    pretty sure all of hearthstone's card art was taken from the WoW TCG. Not really "fan-art."
    Right and that art wasn't done by blizzard artists. Which is what I meant. Fan art probably wasn't the best term.
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  8. #48
    I think Wrath just had more appeal to it than the others. It was dark, it was cold, it consisted of undead -- Lich King was the psuedo-good guy gone bad/mad with power, all the makings of a great story line. Don't think "epic art" had much to do with that really.
    Last edited by hollafame; 2014-07-24 at 09:03 AM.

  9. #49
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollafame View Post
    I think Wrath just had more appeal to it than the others. It was dark, it was cold, it consisted of undead -- Lich King was the psuedo-good guy gone bad/mad with power, all the makings of a great story line. Don't think "epic art" had much to do with that really.
    I do think WotLK's art appeal had something to do with it, or at least, how they handled it. Most notably, EVERYTHING was massive. Everything was built up to be as, dare I say, "realistic" as possible.

    The fortifications of Icecrown spanned the entire zone. The titan ruins of Ulduar were suitably... titanic. The entirety of Zul'drak was built up as a giant city, with unique sub areas for relevant parts of an empire. And even the zones without such prodigious architecture were suitably huge as well... you had the towering walls of Howling Fjord, the massive forests and rolling cliffs of Grizzly Hills, the enormous trees and swamps of Sholazar, etc, etc. In addition, the zones were so richly detailed and diverse even within themselves that they most of them never felt like they were just bland, rolling zones. (Save for some like Borean Tundra and the middle area of Dragonblight.) On top of that, zones had "food webs." The NPC animals wandering around weren't just quest fodder, they legitimately looked like they "belonged" in each zone. Grizzly hills is a freakin' beautiful example of this. Bears fished the rivers. Wolves stalked the woods. Deer roamed the forest. Horses galloped through the meadows. Eagles and hawks soared the skies. Shoveltusks wandered the plains. THAT'S a convincing food web.

    BC can hardly claim any of that. You had some large architecture here and there, like with Black Temple, but those largely just sat alone in zones. In addition, zones had very little diversity within themselves... Hellfire was basically charred red dirt as far as the eye could see. Nagrand was basically "rolling green space mulgore." Even Zangarmarsh, my favorite BC zone (largely attributed to the fact that it was the only one that actually looked "alien" without being a charred hellscape ) was pretty consistent through and through... and when you did have diversity in zones, like Blade's edge with the differences of forest and desert, they just kind of came off as patchy and separated, as opposed to being legitimate different areas because no common theme "united" them. And then speaking on details... there was basically no "foodweb" at all outside of Zangarmarsh. And while I'd give some leeway to zones like Hellfire, Netherstorm, and Shadowmoon because they're in thorough disarray (though the proliferation of boars is somewhat strange,) Zones that were at least some degree of "intact," like Terrokar, Nagrand were all pretty flat and non-diversified. ALL throughout Nagrand, you basically had three animals... clefthooves, Elekks, Talbuks, and Owls. And even if we were to forgive the fact that they placed a pretty hum-drum azerothian animal, the owl, as one of their major "species" on their alien world, there were no predators at all... I think putting the warp stalkers or Ravagers in the zone would have seriously helped in its diversity. In addition, the Owls bring up another point... Dropping the old, tired Azerothian animals we'd been dealing with for 60 levels as "alien" creatures didn't do them much service either. At least for some of them, like Chimaeras and Raptors, they bothered to give them new models (which were about 1000 times cooler looking,) and those were all right... but we were still dealing with regular old owls, and regular old spiders, and regular old lynxes and regular old wolves. And that seriously hurts the notion of an "alien" planet. (WotLK, I guess, was able to skirt this because it was actually ON azeroth, and it made sense to have Azerothian animals traipsing about.)

    Cataclysm can claim the "good WotLK design" for some of its zones. As much as people might "dislike" Uldum or Vashj'ir for their questing or movement dynamics, respectively, I can't say I've EVER heard anyone complain about the scenic design of the zone. Vashj'ir was suitably massive, with towering coral and Night elf ruins. Uldum had the lush areas along its rivers, along with the Tol'vir architecture, both the old and the new in addition to the sweeping deserts. And both had a prodigious amount of wildlife and other little details. Deepholm I'm a little less emphatic about... it was big, and huge, but more or less it was just giant and gray, with a few pockets of interesting design areas (of course, my view might be skewed by the fact that I sat in sat in it for entirely too long waiting for Aeonaxx to spawn.) Twilight Highlands and Hyjal are where I feel Cataclysm fell a little flat... they had a few "corrupted" areas, but beyond that, they both felt like one-trick pony areas that didn't really offer us anything we hadn't seen before.

    And we can apply this to MoP too. Take Jade forest for example. Extreme levels of detail. Gigantic architecture. It mixes it up between cliffs, towns, ruins, bamboo forests, and Jungles to save from getting repetitive. And as a result, I'd say it's a great zone. Some of the others, though, like Dread Wastes and Townlong, just fall into the pit of "bland repetition."
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2014-07-24 at 09:51 AM.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
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  10. #50
    Bloodsail Admiral Manabomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    The reason why art takes longer to make is because of the methods they use for the new high-fidelity artwork.

    In Vanilla and TBC, the models were pretty much made the same way as Warcraft 3 models. Textures were hand-painted from scratch.

    Now all models require a High-poly model to be made, which is used to create the textures and specular maps. Having a High res model makes the lighting and colors more consistent overall, as well as gives the artist more control over the quality and look of the models.

    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125737 Shows the different parts to the whole. This process easily takes at least 3X the amount of work that it used to in the old days. The end result is a much cleaner, consistent product. There's no going back to the old methods, because literally hand painting a picture on a model. Now we have models that have consistent lighting because they are literally based off a high-res model.

    As for throwing more artists at the 'problem', the bigger the art team gets, the more lead artists, and in turn more managers and meetings they will need. It's not an ideal solution to throw more cooks in the kitchen when they're all working together to make one big cake.
    This is a misconception with management on any general term. You don't have all your cooks in the same kitchen doing all the same thing for the project. You have your team A of cooks going for the base and your team B of cooks going for the middle. You have teams of artists dividing and conquering over different aspects of the project and have an upper management of senior artists overlooking the entire project.

    As long as artists are trained and are capable of drawing and rendering Blizzard art (which is basically a prerequisite walking in the door) the system works, and this goes for not only artistry or culinary fields, but almost every field on the planet. It's called synergistic labor. The excuse that more won't be better is a lack of knowledge on how to properly manage individuals within a company.
    Reduce- Iconic class abilities, complexity and meaningful rotations, usefulness of any one class in a raid group
    Reuse- A continent from 3 expansions ago, a story arch from 3 games ago, characters that would otherwise be dead
    Recycle- A beaten to death plot-line, the nostalgia goggles for TBC, bossfight mechanics that make patchwerk seem complex
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  11. #51
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    This is a misconception with management on any general term. You don't have all your cooks in the same kitchen doing all the same thing for the project. You have your team A of cooks going for the base and your team B of cooks going for the middle. You have teams of artists dividing and conquering over different aspects of the project and have an upper management of senior artists overlooking the entire project.

    As long as artists are trained and are capable of drawing and rendering Blizzard art (which is basically a prerequisite walking in the door) the system works, and this goes for not only artistry or culinary fields, but almost every field on the planet. It's called synergistic labor. The excuse that more won't be better is a lack of knowledge on how to properly manage individuals within a company.
    If you make the layers of a cake in three different places, you run the risk of making three different layers that don't go together very well.

    Same thing with "divide and conquering" art projects.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    This is a misconception with management on any general term. You don't have all your cooks in the same kitchen doing all the same thing for the project. You have your team A of cooks going for the base and your team B of cooks going for the middle. You have teams of artists dividing and conquering over different aspects of the project and have an upper management of senior artists overlooking the entire project.

    As long as artists are trained and are capable of drawing and rendering Blizzard art (which is basically a prerequisite walking in the door) the system works, and this goes for not only artistry or culinary fields, but almost every field on the planet. It's called synergistic labor. The excuse that more won't be better is a lack of knowledge on how to properly manage individuals within a company.
    9 Women can't make a Baby in 1 month....some tasks are not easily/possible to be devided. Also at some stage it's not possible any longer to align Status and to do's on the different things. Believe me - I do this for a living since 15 years...

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