Eve... how is it an RPG?

[Wilian]

An RPG isn't defined solely by character customisation. EVE allows you to role play much more effectively than WoW for example.

Defining your character to fulfill different tasks via leveling and customizing it's skillsets, attributes and abilities is the core element of an RPG. Anything beyond that is basically larping in in-game setting.

[Deleted]

Defining your character to fulfill different tasks via leveling and customizing it's skillsets, attributes and abilities is the core element of an RPG. Anything beyond that is basically larping in in-game setting.

We can spend the whole thread dancing on the head of a pin regarding what makes an RPG but that would be boring and pointless.

For people who like to Role Play, EVE is one of the best games out there.

[Dezerte]

First, debate or otherwise, I'm seriously not getting this. I've heard someone try to explain how they define Eve as an RPG and my response was head shaking.

I don't particularly care if it is or isn't but for the sake of argument, if it is, how can Mario not be considered and RPG then? And I suppose that's where I get at the heart of it. I'm confused (I've only ever seen Eve played) where the RPG comes from. I mean, we don't consider Starcraft an MMORPGRTS do we?

First and foremost, how would you define an RPG?

[Lathais]

It has stats and skills that you level up, a currency system, upgrades and better ships to buy. I think RPGs are mostly defined by leveling up, whether that be levels or a skill based system. Mario has no stats or skills, it's just a basic platformer. Also, in Eve, there are huge guilds(I think they are calld corporations or something) that Role Play within them. You have a choice to be a pirate, a merchant or a number of other things. There is lots of choice in how you play the game. In Mario, you complete level 1, then level 2 and eventually get to the end of the game. Sure, you can decide to skip a few levels here and there, but you still just beat the levels in order.

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We can spend the whole thread dancing on the head of a pin regarding what makes an RPG but that would be boring and pointless.

For people who like to Role Play, EVE is one of the best games out there.

For people who like to Role-Play in a space setting maybe. I love to Role Play, I hate Eve. I prefer Dungeons and Dragons for my Role Playing.

[Deleted]

Hell if you use your head, you can Roleplay a game of Twister...

No wait, that was foreplay. Nevermind me.

[Wilian]

Hell if you use your head, you can Roleplay a game of Twister...

No wait, that was foreplay. Nevermind me.

You can still wear Pokémon suits just fine.

[hakujinbakasama]

First and foremost, how would you define an RPG?

Perhaps that is even more of an issue. I suppose it's imprinted biased. Like many people I presume, I was told that Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, D&D, VtM, and the ilk were RPGS. I still to this day have a hard time agreeing that WoW is an RPG (Due to consistent fifth wall breaking).

I suppose, at the heart of it, I have a problem with most games being claimed as RPGs as the individual player often has very little to no effect on the outcome of the game beyond it's completion. Again, I've not played EvE personally as its has never seemed to have anything interesting to provide my library. However, that doesn't mean I hate or bash the game. I don't own Madden 186-49-B.... doesn't make it bad just not my flavor. That doesn't dictate that I'm not confused by seemingly arbitrary descriptions. Again, I'd easily agree the WoW shouldn't be considered an RPG (as many other titles.) Is Minecraft an RPG? It has most of the elements listed elsewhere in this thread. The system tools are there for each person to create their own character history and purpose as well as role-play with others. Like I said before, why isn't GTA? The Witcher is but GTA isn't?

[bbr]

First, debate or otherwise, I'm seriously not getting this. I've heard someone try to explain how they define Eve as an RPG and my response was head shaking.

I don't particularly care if it is or isn't but for the sake of argument, if it is, how can Mario not be considered and RPG then? And I suppose that's where I get at the heart of it. I'm confused (I've only ever seen Eve played) where the RPG comes from. I mean, we don't consider Starcraft an MMORPGRTS do we?

How is it NOT an RPG?
Do you even know what RPG means?

It's a MMORPG even, to be exact.

[Halicia]

Perhaps that is even more of an issue. I suppose it's imprinted biased. Like many people I presume, I was told that Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, D&D, VtM, and the ilk were RPGS. I still to this day have a hard time agreeing that WoW is an RPG (Due to consistent fifth wall breaking).

I suppose, at the heart of it, I have a problem with most games being claimed as RPGs as the individual player often has very little to no effect on the outcome of the game beyond it's completion. Again, I've not played EvE personally as its has never seemed to have anything interesting to provide my library. However, that doesn't mean I hate or bash the game. I don't own Madden 186-49-B.... doesn't make it bad just not my flavor. That doesn't dictate that I'm not confused by seemingly arbitrary descriptions. Again, I'd easily agree the WoW shouldn't be considered an RPG (as many other titles.) Is Minecraft an RPG? It has most of the elements listed elsewhere in this thread. The system tools are there for each person to create their own character history and purpose as well as role-play with others. Like I said before, why isn't GTA? The Witcher is but GTA isn't?

In Eve, you Play the Role of a singular character in the Game, whose ruleset is based on traditional roleplaying elements like skills, levels, and experience. Also, when Eve initially launched, there was less blurring of lines in the MMO market, there weren't MOBAs, or MMORTS, or MMOFPS. It was simply MMORPG. Since most every element of an MMORPG is present in Eve, it makes more sense for them to advertise as that then to try to define some new genre unique to them.

GTA is a shooter with a storyline. You don't get to actively choose the direction of the story or alter your characters in ways significant to the RPG genre.

Its not simply a matter of 'if i put chocolate syrup on vanilla ice cream, why isn't it called chocolate ice cream ?', the majority of it is vanilla ice cream, so thats what its called.

[YouAreAllWrong]

EVE is a Massively Multiplayer Space simulation game that has RPG elements.

Guess most people never heard of space sims and have a funny idea of what a RPG is.

[Deleted]

An RPG isn't defined solely by character customisation. EVE allows you to role play much more effectively than WoW for example.

And also buy monocles for 75$.

[blackblade]

First, debate or otherwise, I'm seriously not getting this. I've heard someone try to explain how they define Eve as an RPG and my response was head shaking.

I don't particularly care if it is or isn't but for the sake of argument, if it is, how can Mario not be considered and RPG then? And I suppose that's where I get at the heart of it. I'm confused (I've only ever seen Eve played) where the RPG comes from. I mean, we don't consider Starcraft an MMORPGRTS do we?

Generally speaking, and RPG is a character driven title with a primary focus on character progression. They take most of their major hallmarks from actual Role-Playing-Games, like D&D.

In EVE, your primary focus is obtaining personal wealth while improving various skills that will qualify you to fly various different classes of ships.

It's very similar, in essence, to a game like Skyrim or Fallout; except instead of being solo, it's almost entirely player generated content.

Mario, on the other hand isn't about character progression. The goal of the game is to avoid or clear hazards while working to reach the end of a given stage.
Call of duty isn't an RPG, because the primary focus is eliminating the other team (in MP) or reaching the end of a stage (in SP), the RPG elements are an afterthought and while they're a driver for lots of people, it's more about filling an XP bar up than "progressing your character". I would wager that player avatars in shooters are not avatars at all, excepting maybe games closer to Borderlands, if not simply because you can interact with NPC's and there's a semblance of storyline.

[kail]

An RPG seems to be an umbrella term that many people define differently. Does having levels and stats make a game an RPG? Does character choice? Open world? Compelling story?

Try looking at games that are labelled as RPG like Final Fantasy, Diablo, and Elder Scrolls. They are different enough that it doesn't seem to take a lot of "DnD features" to be considered an RPG. Plenty even consider Pokemon an RPG.

EVE has the ROG elements of character advancement, choice, and some story telling.

One game I like to compare to for RPG reference is the ever famous DnD, which involved character enhancement and endless choices with possibilities dictated by chance.

[Deleted]

Hell if you use your head, you can Roleplay a game of Twister...

No wait, that was foreplay. Nevermind me.

Good one, but still, it's the truth. You can roleplay Solitaire if you want to. It's just that EVE gives a decent existing framework for roleplaying, whereas Solitaire does not. If you've been a real roleplayer, played real PnP RPGs (or even LARP), you should know that the whole concept of RPG in computer (or console for that matter) games is very shallow. Still, within that concept, EVE is an RPG.

An RPG seems to be an umbrella term that many people define differently. Does having levels and stats make a game an RPG? Does character choice? Open world? Compelling story?

Well, an RPG game should be one where you yourself actually roleplay. That's what the name implies; "Role-Playing Game." There's a difference between "playing a role", and "roleplaying" in computer games though, which is where this misunderstanding comes from. If you start playing Diablo for example, you'll be "playing the role" of the barbarian, for example. You won't, however, be roleplaying the barbarian. That's where computer RPGs fall short of being actual RPGs.

However, games where you actually roleplay and not just play the role are very far and few between. In WoW, for example, most of the people play the role of their character. Very, very few of them, however, roleplay their characters.

Since that's the case, since computer games are basically unable to be actual roleplaying games, the term "RPG" in the computer game world has been taken to mean shit like "yay I raised a level and got a new skill, this is an RPG." And that's OK, I guess, as long as one knows the distinction between real roleplaying and computer RPGs.

EVE, however, gives a very good framework to actually roleplay. It may be missing some of the "RPG" elements which many other faux-roleplaying games on computers have, but you can definitely roleplay in it.

[Wilian]

EVE is a Massively Multiplayer Space simulation game that has RPG elements.

Guess most people never heard of space sims and have a funny idea of what a RPG is.

There is nothing simulator-like in EVEs gameplay, while on the other hand it's gameplay is entirely defined by how you build your character which is the core element of RPG

[mickybrighteyes]

How is it NOT an RPG?
Do you even know what RPG means?

It's a MMORPG even, to be exact.

Hell I'll even agree that WoW isn't very RPG-like these days. Feel like about as much character building as mario sometimes.

[YouAreAllWrong]

There is nothing simulator-like in EVEs gameplay, while on the other hand it's gameplay is entirely defined by how you build your character which is the core element of RPG

Again, people don't know what a space sim is.

Space simulation games are not simulation games in the strict sense. It's just a term used to describe the genre. Character development, is not strict to the RPG genre. Space sims focus on trading and combat on a sandbox universe where you work your way up, making money, exploring, gaining in status, making career choice etc. Games like Elite, the X series, Freelancer etc.

EVE is a Massively Multiplayer Space Simulation game.

[Wilian]

Again, people don't know what a space sim is.

Space simulation games are not simulation games in the strict sense. It's just a term used to describe the genre. Character development, is not strict to the RPG genre. Space sims focus on trading and combat on a sandbox universe where you work your way up, making money, exploring, gaining in status, making career choice etc. Games like Elite, the X series, Freelancer etc.

EVE is a Massively Multiplayer Space Simulation game.

..Do you know what else is common in Elite, X series and Freelancer etc? They actually try to simulate how it is to fly in space via direct inputs. Like flight simulators. Henche space simulators. There's nothing like that in EVE, absolutely nothing. Just because game has economy doesn't make it a space simulator. That'd be economy simulator for you.

And character developement is the defining aspect of RPG, there's no going around that one.

[Deleted]

Again, people don't know what a space sim is.

Space simulation games are not simulation games in the strict sense. It's just a term used to describe the genre. Character development, is not strict to the RPG genre. Space sims focus on trading and combat on a sandbox universe where you work your way up, making money, exploring, gaining in status, making career choice etc. Games like Elite, the X series, Freelancer etc.

EVE is a Massively Multiplayer Space Simulation game.

You truly are all wrong in this case. In case you want to continue claiming space simulators aren't in fact space flight simulators then by all means, please come up with some proof other than your personal opinion. Burden of proof and all that.

Here's one of the first space (flight) simulators: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Space_Simulator

See the name? Space simulator. And no, things haven't changed in the past 20 years. Sorry. EVE is a click-to-move game. It's not a space simulator. That's that.

[YouAreAllWrong]

..Do you know what else is common in Elite, X series and Freelancer etc? They actually try to simulate how it is to fly in space via direct inputs. Like flight simulators.

Uhm, no they don't. They are far from it and their point was never to simulate how to fly in space.
Not really sure why you insist so much. It's not like I said something preposterous. EVE is considered a MMO space simulation game since it came out.

Character development is one of the fundamental aspects of the RPG genre, however other genres have that aspect without them being RPGS. Just like shooting is a fundamental aspect of a FPS, while other games can have shooting without them being a Shooter game etc.

You truly are all wrong in this case. In case you want to continue claiming space simulators aren't in fact space flight simulators then by all means, please come up with some proof other than your personal opinion. Burden of proof and all that.

Here's one of the first space (flight) simulators: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Space_Simulator

See the name? Space simulator. And no, things haven't changed in the past 20 years. Sorry. EVE is a click-to-move game. It's not a space simulator. That's that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_f...simulator_game
Realistic Simulation =/ Space sim.