Eve... how is it an RPG?

[Deleted]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_f...simulator_game
Realistic Simulation =/ Space sim.

You don't get it. A game which uses Newtonian physics, such as I-WAR 2, is a "realistic simulation" game, whereas a game which doesn't give two shits about physics, but is still a "flight simulator", such as for example any Star Wars game, is a "non-realistic space sim." In both cases you still fly a spaceship, which is what's being simulated.

In EVE you don't fly jack shit. You click on a target and away your unit goes. As far it's mechanics go, it's a single unit RTS. Not a space simulator. The only thing EVE simulates is clicking on shit on the screen.

[Vargur]

Yeah, I had this argument about 12 years ago. At that time I argued that the only way for something to qualify as an RPG was for your choices to actually have an effect.

I think any player's choices in EVE can have a profound effect. Especially the leadership ones. And to a unfathomable greater extent than any other MMO in existence.
You forgot to pay rent by 1 ISK? Entire regions can fall.
You misscalculated a jump? It can backfire into a 100,000$ worth of losses space battle.

[Slant]

People are using the terminology wrong, as usual on the internet...

RPG is not any game in which you play a role, it's specifically something resembling the playstyle of the olden days with pen and paper RPGs like D&D. Of course you play a role when you play a space sim. Even in Counterstrike you play the role of counter terrorist or terrorist. You're roleplaying. But that doesn't make CS an RPG. An RPG needs the core philosophy of pen and paper in the mechanics. You needs character sheets with stats on them that can be manipulated, equipment with some kind of meaningful choice, combat that includes a dice roll philosophy to take those stats into account (no, not actual dice rolls in computer games, but the computer does them in the background for you). In RPGs the gameplay is somewhat indirect, although games like Tera are blurring the lines these days... So did the ME series, although I would clearly label that as an RPG.

Is WoW an RPG? Yeah it kinda is, even if it's moving further away from being an RPG each expansion. Is CS an RPG? Fuck no, there are no dice rolls at all, emphasize is on aiming and movement skills rather than meaningful character choices, etc.

Is EVE an RPG? Not at first, you'd say... but I could make an argument for it being an RPG if you think about it...

You're a pilot with a character sheet. You have TONS of skills to max out (I heard it would take more than 10 years to max out everything?) You may not be able to equip your character itself much (you can buy implants and shit, so there's even that), but if you look at the ships and how they can be outfitted, it's everything as complex as outfitting a character on a D&D sheet.

You have other classic RPG elements like quests, reputation, commerce...

It's not the most obvious choice to introduce someone to the concept of RPG, but the key elements of classic RPGs are in the game, even if they're hidden smartly inside a science fiction universe. But since ME, everybody agrees that RPGs are not limited to a fantasy setting, so that's okay, too.

Funny, when I saw this thread my immediate reaction was "Fuck no..." but having written this post I had to change my opinion. This topic ain't as stupid as it looks at first glance!

[YouAreAllWrong]

You don't get it. A game which uses Newtonian physics, such as I-WAR 2, is a "realistic simulation" game, whereas a game which doesn't give two shits about physics, but is still a "flight simulator", such as for example any Star Wars game, is a "non-realistic space sim." In both cases you still fly a spaceship, which is what's being simulated.

In EVE you don't fly jack shit. You click on a target and away your unit goes. As far it's mechanics go, it's a single unit RTS. Not a space simulator. The only thing EVE simulates is clicking on shit on the screen.

Apparently you don't get it, because you're stuck in the term simulation. The core aspect of Space sims like Elite and the more recent X rebirth is NOT the flight. Is the exploration, trading/economy and combat in a sandbox environment. Input method has nothing to do with this genre. They are not trying to simulate how you fly in space. All of them are Sci-Fi and far from realistic. It's the characteristic I described above that make this specific genre. EVE is one of them.

[Wilian]

Apparently you don't get it, because you're stuck in the term simulation. The core aspect of Space sims like Elite and the more recent X rebirth is NOT the flight. Is the exploration, trading/economy and combat in a sandbox environment. Input method has nothing to do with this genre. They are not trying to simulate how you fly in space. All of them are Sci-Fi and far from realistic. It's the characteristic I described above that make this specific genre. EVE is one of them.

Thank you for clearing my mind after all these years, it's all clear to me now. Transport Tycoon is a Bus-Simulator game.

[Slant]

Apparently you don't get it, because you're stuck in the term simulation. The core aspect of Space sims like Elite and the more recent X rebirth is NOT the flight. Is the exploration, trading/economy and combat in a sandbox environment. Input method has nothing to do with this genre. They are not trying to simulate how you fly in space. All of them are Sci-Fi and far from realistic. It's the characteristic I described above that make this specific genre. EVE is one of them.

The core aspect of games like Elite and now Star Citizen is exactly that you are flying in space. It may be more or less realistic than true space flight, but it's still the point of buying those games. Things like exploration, commerce and combat are important for any MMO that means to engage in long term motivation so that's hardly an argument for anything. The input method is exactly what makes these games what they are. Just dismissing that because it doesn't suit your argument doesn't make you right.

[FeverRay]

I don't really consider it to be one.

[YouAreAllWrong]

Thank you for clearing my mind after all these years, it's all clear to me now. Transport Tycoon is a Bus-Simulator game.

Mock me all you want, I didn't create the term myself. I grew up with it. I didn't personally classify EVE as space sim. Every Space sim fansite lists EVE as a space sim. Even the freaking EVE wikipedia page says "genres: Space simulation,MMORPG" . Do you find it unfortunate? That's fine. Just because you guys are not familiar with this genre, doesn't make it wrong.

[Deleted]

Mock me all you want, I didn't create the term myself. I grew up with it.

As is with so many things, this happens to be a genre that is being applied to games that it doesn't really apply to. In other words, stupid people are stupid. What you can do, however, is not perpetuate that stupidity.

[Deleted]

If ever space flight becomes as commonplace as in EVE or X series or any of the space "simulators" I guarantee you they will not involve "Flying around with direct inputs" They will be completely computer controlled (like Star Trek) and navigation will be done by plotting a destination and speed, and the computer will handle all the acceleration, corrections and stopping.

I would say, that of any space game "simulator" EVE is the closest to how space ship control will look.

[Hubbl3]

You're a pilot with a character sheet. You have TONS of skills to max out (I heard it would take more than 10 years to max out everything?)

More like 20++ years if CCP does not implement new skills.

There are several players in this game who play since 2003 and who have not nearly completed all skills.

Here is one http://eveboard.com/pilot/Dr_Caymus

Just look at the skills, LOOK AT THEM!

[Dhrizzle]

More like 20++ years if CCP does not implement new skills.

There are several players in this game who play since 2003 and who have not nearly completed all skills.

Here is one http://eveboard.com/pilot/Dr_Caymus

Just look at the skills, LOOK AT THEM!

375 skills trained, for a total of 250,000,000 skillpoints.

[haxartus]

I've never seen a game with a better risk/reward system. I've lost up to 2 billion in a second due to a simple mistake (jumping directly to gate on an empty system). 2 billion back then was equal to 4 PLEX or about $60. But if I didn't make this mistake, I would have made 1 billion in profit.
And I did, the next week I did everything perfectly and I actually pulled off some pretty crazy and risky things and I made 5 billion.