[Holy] Mastery, Crit, or Haste

[Loltrain]

Hey guys,
So I've gotten a little tired of the standard mastery stacking. I've been stacking crit with Unyielding Fate (The two set) and Infusion of Light making Holy Radiance and Divine light pretty consistently great. Most my heals in 10M Heroic have been Eternal Flame which lead me to believe that a double heal was better than a bigger bubble. But this is only true when people are actually taking enough damage to have the EF tick heal like in Heroic. Thoughts or numbers?

[Varabently]

My issue with crit is that it overheals and it's unreliable.

My issue with haste is it increases throughput, but increases mana output too (you're casting faster, so you can fit more casts in a given time period). I guess you could argue it only increases mana output if #1 mana is a problem or #2 you are casting 100% of the time (which you probably arent).

So I settle for mastery. The downside of course is that it doesn't work with EF ticks, so that's kind of shitty. I haven't healed heroics, so I can't comment there.

[Loltrain]

I have about 40% crit and mastery fully raid buffed. With that 25% extra crit with holy shock, it's pretty reliable. I agree that over healing is a problem, but it doesn't seem too extreme. I stay around where our holy priest is.

[Freia]

Where are your logs? You are gearing for a 2 piece that is likely not even providing you that much healing. And if you are trying to gear for Eternal Flame, haste breakpoints are a greater increase than crit is.

[Loltrain]

I can't post links yet, but it's US silvermoon dead rabbits. I feel if you focus on mastery, the eternal flame tic isn't very useful. Might as well go selfless healer. The two piece is 25% extra healing and the infusion of light reduces cast time by 1.5 sec. I can get it to proc nearly every holy shock, so six seconds. I just fill with eternal flame then divine purpose procs and holy light. I was actually going to reforge up to the 35% haste break point. I'd only lose about 3% crit and 2% mastery with my current gear.

[nightfalls]

Short answer: You're wrong, and Freia is right.

Longer answer: You're wrong, and Freia is right, and if you try to stubbornly defend being wrong even more you'll probably just end up embarrassing yourself, so I'd just take Freia's word for it.

[Loltrain]

I'm just wondering why.

- - - Updated - - -

And I'm sorry, I don't value what you say just because you say it.

[nightfalls]

re: infusion

Here's two of your logs. Take a look and tell me where your infusion granting spells are on the totem pole:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3283&e=3824
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=11887&e=12553

re: crit gemming

For throughput the best gem is generally seen as intellect. Critical Strike has a horrendously low scale factor. Haste gives you a higher value from Spirit of Chi-Ji. Take a look at this log and look at your overheal abilities and which ones are the only low ones.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3283&e=3824
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6031&e=6433

re: your totally irrelevant personal experience.

Keeping up with a holy priest is not an accomplishment. Especially not one as awful as he is. You don't want to sink yourself to that level.

re: off topics and a good reason why your personal experience is so irrelevant.

1) You're using Divine Purpose which is bad already. 7 procs over 9 minutes, such amaze, much mind-blown, wow.
2) You're casting Holy Light which is just a terrible ability to use. Again, see above look at where it sits on the totem pole.
3) Really if you're having as much trouble as your guild is on Galakras you should be trying to help your NPC's AVOID taking fractures instead of smashing Beacon on them at the expense of your raid stability.

edited: re: valuation

That's fine, you can continue thinking what you want, but performance logs, unless tampered with, don't play favorites and speak for themselves. Right now yours aren't nearly good enough to help defend anything.

[Loltrain]

Thank you, that's what I wanted. I wasn't trying to tell you why I was better, I was trying to get you to tell me how I was bad. I appreciate your input, thank you again.

[nightfalls]

It's fine to challenge others' thinking in general, just keep in mind though that there's a lot more "I think this" than actual evidence in the world hence the general annoyance when people do challenge.

Most of the "conventional" thinking now isn't because people are blindly listening but because we've been doing this raid for nearly a full year now and people have already figured it out due to numerous trial and error attempts + math spreadsheets that have started pretty much a full year ago since the PTR/changes were announced.

If you think to challenge a full year's worth of work by people who are on the top end in the world, you'd better have a good reason, and personal experience unless it just happens to beat the top world players' personal experience generally isn't going to cut it.

Otherwise keep in mind literally anybody can be like 'OMG I HAS AN IDEAZ' and then stubbornly refuse to listen to any reason, so don't expect a lot of patience.

[Deleted]

I can't post links yet, but it's US silvermoon dead rabbits. I feel if you focus on mastery, the eternal flame tic isn't very useful. Might as well go selfless healer. The two piece is 25% extra healing and the infusion of light reduces cast time by 1.5 sec. I can get it to proc nearly every holy shock, so six seconds. I just fill with eternal flame then divine purpose procs and holy light. I was actually going to reforge up to the 35% haste break point. I'd only lose about 3% crit and 2% mastery with my current gear.

Keep in mind that my point of view is from a 25 man raider. Crit and Haste are extremely poor stats compared to Mastery. The issue is that paladin spells as a whole are much weaker/way less mana efficient then those of other healers.

You might look at Mastery and EF ticks and say: well mastery doesn't even work with this, shit stat. And that is true, but in 25 man at this point very very few EF ticks would heal(passed shaman healing rain,disc shields, druid mushrooms,rejuvs, 25 man raid tranq&co, and healing cloaks). I would argue very very few ticks of EF heal in 10 man also now. 35% haste breakpoint will just bring you 1 EF tick extra(over the 13 you have by almost default) will that 14th tick actually do work?

I'm sure crit sounds nice, with the 2p and all. But 1% crit is really expensive statwise, and you have ~50% chance to crit with Holy Shock by default(average @ trinket proc+raid buffs+food+flask+normal gear+5% crit buff+25% holy shock buff). Will adding 5% chance to crit more really give you a much higher uptime on the 2p when you need it?

This is all ignoring that every 2 minutes for 20 secs you have 20% more haste/crit via Divine Favor, for times you really need them in.

Meanwhile Mastery will never overheal, it will rarely fall off and it doesn't get worse the move you have.