Nagrand Spoilers! (OMG)

[Derah]

how long has garrosh been back there? like did he teleport to draenor 20 years ago and they just got around to invading or what? (like is he 100 years old now?)

He was teleported 30 years ago, to an alternate timeline where the horde was forming, but still hadn't partaken in the demon blood, or replaced all shaman with warlocks.

We get teleported 28 years ago to that same alternate timeline, so Garrosh has been there for two years already making changes to the past.

Garrosh without the Purple Jello Suit managed to take down Cairne in a 1-on-1. He's not a shabby fighter.

Actually no. Cairne was wiping the floor with Garrosh's face during the entire fight. Garrosh was only able to land 1 lucky strike that barely managed to scratch Cairne, but since his axe was poisoned (without him knowing it) that scratch managed to paralyze Cairne, leaving him open for garrosh to cleave him in two.

Before he got that lucky scratch however, he was fighting as hard as he could and wasn't doing anything at all to Cairne, whereas the old bull was absolutely pummeling Garrosh and wasn't even tired.

[Daez]

So it took 25 of us in SoO but here it only takes 1 person? Alrighty then!

We must have severely weakened him enough to that he decided to die.

[Alexeht]

That's pretty anticlimactic tbh. Does he at least have his soul ripped out of his body by Gul'dan or something?

I really hope this is what happen in cut scene, or cinematic

[Deleted]

Garrosh is still the one that made the Iron Horde start up and supplied it with all the technology.

Which came from Azeroth.

What are the chances the draenei will get the Grom kill anyway?

I do don't futurology.

[Deleted]

My shaman seemed to do just fine in SoO.

Because Gameplay > Immersion. "Hey let's make Shamans completely useless in the Garrosh fight. Nobody will care anyways.."

At this point it's just whining for the sake of whining.

Thrall started this and it IS HIS RESPONSIBILITY to End it. Anybody else killing Garrosh means, that somebody took his responsibility, but that's not Thrall. He carried the weight with him and as you see that when you actually try to talk to him after the - nyi - Cutscene. You don't have any reason to take it from him, Thrall put him in command and everyone else who suffered from Garrosh, if anything, should blame Thrall - I don't see any reason why they couldn't or shouldn't. Thrall was close as fuck to our timeline's Grom and it's HIS son. The Son of the nuthead that was close to bringing the orcs (or part of them) back into the Legions fold and the nuthead that redeemed himself the same night, by sacrificing himself in an act to kill Mannoroth, right there for Thrall to see. And you can't undo that one, I don't recall any other Character ever coming close to Grom's heroic redemption that day (correct me if i'm wrong). As much as you guys dislike Thrall - This moment and this kill both BELONG to Thrall no matter how you turn it. And that's the end of that. Blame them if he goes for the kill on AU Grom (which should honestly go to Durotan or Yrel). But not for this one.

[tumppu]

Good. I do hope they bury him somewhere accessible within the game, so I can go dance on his grave.

[Deleted]

I don't know why, we were doing fine fighting Garrosh Then Thrall comes in after we do the work and takes the glory from us. We shouldn't have even fought Garrosh at all, just had Thrall run up and challenge him instead of that whole 5 minute fight where we don't even get the kill.

DOING FINE?! Was your Quest bugged or anything? You don't do fine, when you stand there getting punched bloody by Garrosh, at the fucking same time (Durotan/Player // Yrel/Player). You where doing fine until THAT moment, but no, you did not so fine in the long run.

[Wyrt]

Which came from Azeroth.

Which fucked over the draenei more than anyone else.

Thrall started this and it IS HIS RESPONSIBILITY to End it.

If it really had to be Thrall they could have at least done it without making Durotan, Yrel, and the player look like wimps.

[Deleted]

Which fucked over the draenei more than anyone else.



If it really had to be Thrall they could have at least done it without making Durotan, Yrel, and the player look like wimps.

Look at it from this side: Where was Thrall when we attacked Grommashar? His beloved wife was there.. yeah. But where was he until he showed up at the top of the Fortress? He clearly wasn't ready for it at all. He knew all the way that it would come to this moment, that somebody had to do it and if so, that it should be him, since he has full responsibility for what Garrosh did after he made him Warchief. Normally something like that bites. And seeing him come up in the Moment we needed him the most (remember: the moment he showed up, Garrosh was pretty much beating you to death with his bare fists) just seems pretty logical. And a Mak'gora even more so. Nobody else could come to harm. It's him and Garrosh, alone. He was ready to end the life of his close friend's son.

Edit: And of course it's bad both ways. You see Garrosh and then all the sudden Thrall and he's dead? Not that intriguing. It's healthy to let us at least TRY on our own, to take him down. But it's also healthy and logical that somewhere inbetween Thrall stops being a fucking emo and steps up to take up his responsibility, instead of letting us end it FOR him (if at all for him..).

[Velshin]

Exactly, and thats why its wonderfully poetic.

When Garrosh first appeared in nagrand, I'm certain few gave a shit then about who he was, especially alliance who never did the questing for horde in nagrand.

Since that time, he's had an impact on the story in a major way, and his actions has effected many characters, Varian, Jaina, Saurfang, Vol'jin, Anduin, Tyrande, Greymane. If any of these characters had ended Garrosh, all the other fans of the other characters who didn't get the kill would have been calling it bullshit their fav character didn't get the kill in and whine about it.

People don't care about story in this instance, they only care about their fav character being relevant.

If Vol'jin had been the one to find Garrosh and bring him into the horde, I'd have agreed he should be the one to finish off Garrosh, or if it were Saurfang who did it, same thing, but wasn't any of them, it was Thrall. He started it, he ended it.

Indeed the more I think about that final mak'gora between Thrall and Garrosh the more I remember how wise Cairne was and he was so close to end Garrosh life back then in the shattering novel. I wish blizzard explain and tell us how Thrall felt during that last duel to the death with Garrosh in a short story or a novel because ingame we can't see what goes inside lore characters minds.

[LazarusLong]

Which fucked over the draenei more than anyone else.



If it really had to be Thrall they could have at least done it without making Durotan, Yrel, and the player look like wimps.

Yes, I think they should change that part too.

[docterfreeze]

Warsong Lumber camp was destroyed at the end of the questing arc for the Alliance, which begins with repelling the attack on Astranaar (which was where the Horde quests ended). The Horde are pushed out of Ashenvale entirely and by the events of Tides of War and Theramore's destruction Ashenvale is firmly in Night Elven hands.

failed, Jaina, Vereesa and Shandris Feathermoon all escaped, Horde fleet was decisively destroyed and Northwatch was rebuilt. Theramore was destroyed but the objectives Garrosh wanted to achieve didn't happen, and it cost a huge amount of Horde lives.


Alliance was strangely absent from that conflict but it resulted in Orgrimmar being invaded


Well now you know the whole story

I don't have any alliance characters so I only saw the part where horde collected some lumber, killed an ancient and a ton of elves. Didn't know bout the rest. Apparently of you only play one faction the story can be quite misleading.

I still think theramore was a success. The goal was to eliminate the biggest alliance threat that was nearest to orgrimmar, they did just that.

Traitor horde and alliance were in the process of invading orgrimmaar long before garrosh got the heart.

[Derah]

Warsong Lumber camp was destroyed at the end of the questing arc for the Alliance, which begins with repelling the attack on Astranaar (which was where the Horde quests ended). The Horde are pushed out of Ashenvale entirely and by the events of Tides of War and Theramore's destruction Ashenvale is firmly in Night Elven hands.

So much stuff wrong.

First off, the warsong lumber camp WAS NOT destroyed. It expanded in case you didn't noticed. And while you get a few quests where you kill some of the forces there, its still standing at the end of the day. True, the horde attack on Astranaar was repelled, but then again, the alliance attack on Splintertree outpost was repelled by horde forces too.

HOWEVER, the horde managed to succesfully take Silverwind Refuge from the alliance, completely decimated the Sentinel attack on the Mor’sharn Ramparts, reinforced Zoram'gar Outpost, and overall made a significant increase of their forces in the area.

I have no idea why you say that they were completely pushed out during Tides of War. Some citation is gonna be needed for that.

As for this part:

failed, Jaina, Vereesa and Shandris Feathermoon all escaped

You are assuming that the entire reason the siege happened at all was to exclusively remove jaina. It wasn't. Jaina was just one out of many objectives. just because she and vereesa and shandris escaped, doesn't mean the siege of theramoore "failed".

, Horde fleet was decisively destroyed and Northwatch was rebuilt.

I like how you completely skip that the alliance lost A HUUUUUUUGE chunk of their generals. Yes, a whooping total of three escaped, but most of the others died. And a large bulk of their own forces did too, since the alliance sent everything they had at theramoore. The victory may have been costly to the horde (as they lost a fleet, and whatever ground forces were in the city during the blast) but in no way was the alliance the victor there, because ground troops can be replenished, but trained, seasoned generals? you don't get those on every corner.

Theramore was destroyed but the objectives Garrosh wanted to achieve didn't happen

Again, you're assuming that his sole objective was the removal of jaina. And it wasn't. The biggest objective was to remove theramoore as a vital port that the alliance was using to stage multiple attacks on the horde on many different fronts. And in that regard, the attack was a smashing success. Every single objective that was planned for the siege was brought to fruition, with very few exceptions. Sure, some of the generals escaped, but most didn't.

and it cost a huge amount of Horde lives.

it cost an even bigger amount of alliance lives.

[Darth-Piekus]

Attacking Theramore was the biggest mistake Garrosh ever made. It staged the beggining of the end of his war because not only did he managed to unite the Alliance even more he alienated the rest of the Horde even more. He also managed to turn some neutral factions against him like the Kirin Tor.

[Lumineus]

DOING FINE?! Was your Quest bugged or anything? You don't do fine, when you stand there getting punched bloody by Garrosh, at the fucking same time (Durotan/Player // Yrel/Player). You where doing fine until THAT moment, but no, you did not so fine in the long run.

contrived [kuh n-trahyvd]
adjective
obviously planned or forced; artificial; strained: a contrived story.