Spriest Identity Discussion

[Deleted]

My interpretation (or simply what I like to believe) regarding priests:

In the universe there is something, or there is nothing at all. There is energy, light, matter, or there is not. There is the Light or there is the Void, and all living beings, as being born of the light, are unable to view the Void, as in the act of viewing it, it causes it to exist, which it does not.

Priests in WoW are energy manipulators, something akin in the manner of an arcanist, yet they use sheer inner strength and belief of their understanding to make it happen in a manner of mind over matter. Rather than channelling magics they are capable of manipulating their own energies to influence the bodies of others. They view how the light warms the morning, causes the plants to grow; they force their very essence to mimic that force on a tiny scale to accomplish what they see as the will of the light. To create, and heal. They do not require runes or symbols - they require only the knowledge and the strength of will to force it to happen from the depths of their souls. This applies to both Holy and Shadow priests in different ways. Tenacity - the sun will shine each day despite what evils befall Azeroth, and with its mimicry, a true priest will apply such determination and unwavering strength to persist until their goals are done. Respect - to understand and respect the light's ability is key. The light is a burning fire of energy - one that can be used to destroy or to create. Compassion - those of the holy light choose to manipulate its existence to spread peace and compassion - to protect and to heal, to bring joy.

Despite being a shadow tenet, power is key to a priest. Light is the power. Their soul is the power. Knowledge is the power. Note how a priest's spells do not refer to light - they are wielding it for other purposes, not using it directly:
A priest will cast: Penance, Serenity, Sanctuary, Heal, Flash Heal, Binding Heal, Prayer of Healing.
A paladin will cast: Divine Light, Holy Light, Flash of Light, Holy Radiance, Light of Dawn.
You can tell from this that paladin will channel the light and throw it around with good intentions, but little understanding. They channel it and hope and have faith that it will do what they want - a priest requires no such imprecise work. They use the light, yes, but as a power source to do as they please and will to happen, and that is the difference between them.


So what then? Is a shadow priest? What is it they do? Where do they draw their power from?

As Yva has decribed many times, I believe that all priests in some way or another begin on the holy side of the coin. They spend their years meditating on the nature of the soul, of desire, of will and of the universe. Like any other bunch of aspiring priests, only a few will come to the true comprehension of the strength of will. Of those, a few will come to question "If the light is everything around us - imbued in every molecule of life - then what is its absence?" "I use the light within myself and expel it with my will to others to assist them in their hours of needs - what if I took it from them by force?" Most priests will be terrified of the thought and shy away from such a horrific notion, but others will not. Others will be curious, because they understand the power within themselves - but what if they could have everyone else's too?

A shadow priest becomes familiar with The Void. WoW Lore states the The Great Dark Beyond as the "space between worlds" and personally I don't buy some of this wishy-washy world and universe talk; I've decided to read between the lines myself. In my interpretation The Void, The Great Dark Beyond are a singular thing, and it is indeed the space between worlds, as it is the last vestiges of the vast nothingness that existed before the universe exploded into existence. Before the creation of light, energy, matter and time there was the void; a vast gnawing nothingness that spanned to eternity and infinity, yet did not. A paradox that we cannot quite understand with our human minds, attuned to the laws of physics in our own universe. Now, there is light, energy and matter everywhere. It is chaotic and it creates - it permeates to the deepest parts of interstellar space - photons whizzing through space. However, in the space between worlds - there are large areas of nothingness. Where not a photon passes, and there is only vaccum. There is nothingness. In these spaces, reflected in the viewing of a black hole (though I am aware that a black hole does indeed have mass and energy), there appears to be nothing, but an infinite maw. This is where a shadow priest draws their power from.

I don't like the idea that shadow priests "draw" power from anything but themselves, nor that priests in general do. I like to believe that all power comes from themselves, and they use the framework of an idea or a thought as a pattern for their power. A shadow priest has come to understand the nature of nothingness and in the process the void. The Void is not meant to be seen, as I pointed out above, but shadow priests through sheer desire have come to comprehend a mere fraction of its power - the power of a supermassive black hole, and how it could swallow up a universe. Such knowledge would drive most insane - again reducing the number of potential shadow priests, and yet a small few, are capable of maintaining their mind with such ken, which changes them forever.

A shadow priest realises that the void has the capacity to destroy entire universes and create them - it is the ultimate god-like power - and they want it for themselves. While a holy priest emulates the sun, they emulate the black hole. Sucking in the life and light around them - forcibly stealing the light from others and using it to fuel their own power. I believe that the "mind" and "insanity" aspect of crippling their foes is very simple - they are a shadow of the void themselves, and their mere existence in such a form is enough to drive lesser minds into the ground. "Mind blast" "Mind Flay" "Mind Spike" "Insanity" are not glowing beams of mind-stuff - but interpretations of how they expose the weakened psyche of their foe to what they are, what they have become and what they know.

A shadow priest does not need anything to kill you. It need you to know about nothingness, and watch you slowly kill yourself as you fail to cope with the comprehension.


This is really poorly written as I've not had enough coffee yet, but it's the jist of my thoughts on the matter.

[SomethingWycked]

Yva, your first few posts pre-argument were a delight to read. I'm going to be saving that text because it very neatly and effectively captures the coolness of the Shadow Priest, and why I've mained one since Vanilla (since the Priest patch that made Discipline a genuine thing, and made my old main, my first 60, a Rogue, have fits when dueling Priests lol).

I'd like to share a link that, while it doesn't deal directly with the identity of Shadow Priests, it definitely has strong bearing on the concept of Void vs. Light and illuminates (haha) the discussion:

Tinfoil Hat Edition of Know Your Lore- What if Sargeras was Right?
http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/04/29/kn...ras-was-right/

The article summed up (spoilers?) if you don't want to read a few pages of excellent writing: there can be no shadows without light; there can be no Light without Void. Sargeras must have wondered why the Titans' work of ordering the universe out of chaos was a necessary or even a good thing. What if the Titans completed their work and eradicated all of the chaos in the universe? What would we have then? Sargeras must have seen that there must be a balance, a cycle, chaos to order and back and forth, and he "went mad" and turned against the other Titans, undoing their work and creating a healthy cycle.

So must it be with Light and Void, Priests that use Holy magic and Priests that use Shadow. I'd like to think that Shadow Priests have had similar enlightening moments as Sargeras likely did.

[Larynx]

Despite being a shadow tenet, power is key to a priest. Light is the power. Their soul is the power. Knowledge is the power. Note how a priest's spells do not refer to light - they are wielding it for other purposes, not using it directly:
A priest will cast: Penance, Serenity, Sanctuary, Heal, Flash Heal, Binding Heal, Prayer of Healing.
A paladin will cast: Divine Light, Holy Light, Flash of Light, Holy Radiance, Light of Dawn.

It's worth noting that this is because, lorewise, not all priests use the light. That's why the Light is almost never/never referenced for player priest abilities. Trolls use their Loa, Night Elves use Elune, Tauren use An'she, Humans use the Light. That's part of why priest lore is so strange, because priests from different races are so different. That was probably a lot of inspiration for why priests used to have unique racials (starshards, etc).

edit: and the Great Dark Beyond is literally just space. That's it. No reading between the lines is necessary.

[XangXu]

I've always thought of Shadow Priests as a kind of... Black sheep to the church. While the church acknowledges the ideology and importance of darkness from a balance point of view, priests who walk this path won't be taken that seriously by their peers.

Their power comes from beyond the veil of death, a place where even the most powerful creatures fear because they know that the veil of death is the END of their existence... The end do consciousness, the end of known reality....


While warlocks are bust summoning demons and the like, shadow priests are busy showing their enemies glimpses beyond that veil, and that kind of knowledge, to know what death is before you get there...

That is enough to damage anyone.


I think that shadow priests have a much greater understanding and respect for death, since they have seen it first hand... And their minds remain intact..


Mostly

- - - Updated - - -

I also thought they might be based on the Grim Reaper myth in our culture. You know... Dark brooding beings of darkness who guide souls into the unknown after death...


Death and Dying are a huge part of The Light, people just don't want to talk about.

[Deleted]

I've always thought of Shadow Priests as a kind of... Black sheep to the church. While the church acknowledges the ideology and importance of darkness from a balance point of view, priests who walk this path won't be taken that seriously by their peers.

I doubt this is true. Any reference to the lore that you can substantiate the assertion with?

[Yvaelle]

I doubt this is true. Any reference to the lore that you can substantiate the assertion with?

Priests use both Holy and Shadow magic interchangeably - Shadowpriests can Flash Heal and Renew, and Holy Priests summon Shadowfiends, Void Tendrils, and can Psychically Scream.

All the priest NPCs in WoW, with the exception of Velen (but this will likely change in WoD when we see him in combat) - apply both Shadow and Holy magic. This is distinct to Paladins, who are a schism of Clerics that worship only the light, and restrict themselves only to Holy magic.

There is also the origin mythos of the warcraft universe mentioned earlier, "It is said that in the beginning there was Light and there was Void and a time long ago, the two collided in the abyss of the Great Dark. As a result, infinite worlds spiraled out into the newly forming cosmos." Both Light and Void, that is the nature of reality.

There's also a quest (I believe while unlocking Twilight Highlands on Alliance?) where Anduin implies they are both aspects in equal measure - which in context is a nod at the misguided zealotry of Stormwind's Paladins.

Finally, there is the official description of the Priest class:

"As light cannot exist without darkness, and darkness without light, some priests tap into shadow to better understand their own abilities, as well as the abilities of those who threaten them."


So, XangXu is right about Priests being ideologically distinct in their recognition of the symbiotic duality of Light/Void. Regarding Human and Dwarf Priests - because of the dominant role of Paladins within their cultures - they do not overtly discuss their recognition of the Void - but they do clearly recognize it, and practice it's use.

Other Priests (Undead, Trolls, Night Elves, Blood Elves, Goblins, probably even Gnomes) however exist in cultures where Shadow magic is less taboo: it is simply a part of reality.

[Deleted]

You misunderstood what I was referring to. I take issue with the following: "priests who walk this path won't be taken that seriously by their peers." What is it that seems to prove this true? If anything, a person with an understanding of dark power that is able to manipulate minds and hearts, inflict suffering, etcetera - would be taken seriously for a certain.

[Yvaelle]

If anything, a person with an understanding of dark power that is able to manipulate minds and hearts, inflict suffering, etcetera - would be taken seriously for a certain.

Agreed

I did address that in the last two paragraphs though - Human Priests seem to covertly practice Shadow magic amongst their own order, but do not overtly do so - likely due to Stormwind being ruled by Paladins (and a dumb Warrior on the throne, but idiot-warrior-kings seems to be a recurring theme in Azeroth).

So, Humans might not take Shadowpriests with the same reverence afforded the church - if anything they are pariahs - but it's not the case for all Priest factions.

[Deleted]

So, Humans might not take Shadowpriests with the same reverence afforded the church - if anything they are pariahs - but it's not the case for all Priest factions.

Indeed. There is a deep-rooted suspicion among the other folks of the church or individuals in the human society that revolves around respect, fear, and generally doubt of the Priests who possess Shadow powers. In addition to fearing misuse of their talents, there is also a dimension of respect toward these people, as they they have managed to hold onto the good and healing in spite of possessing damaging, pain-inflicting abilities.

[Dierdre]

So, Humans might not take Shadowpriests with the same reverence

Why, they even have the audacity to bench us every now and then.

[Blackmorgrim]

With the talk of Shadowpriests, the void, and black holes... my mouth watered at the idea of Shadow getting the ability Black Hole from D3's wizards... replace Divine Star with the opposite of Halo! (And finally give priests an ability that moves people!)

[Yvaelle]

With the talk of Shadowpriests, the void, and black holes... my mouth watered at the idea of Shadow getting the ability Black Hole from D3's wizards... replace Divine Star with the opposite of Halo! (And finally give priests an ability that moves people!)

I want that so much

@Celestalon @FlayerInTheMist suggested we replace Divine Star with a Black Hole that creates a Reverse Halo. Please?

Why, they even have the audacity to bench us every now and then.

Ya humans are terrible people, I would never follow one - so my GM is a Nelf.

I propose Space Goats and Nelves split off and make our own faction - possibly with cute gnomes (humans can keep the ugly ones)

[Morthulo]

I don't really have a comment on the identity of the SPriest, but I have to say that I am a little saddened to not see more SPriest players around. It feels almost like people have abandoned the spec. I might do 3 LFR runs in a night and might only see one other SPriest, sometimes none!

I don't feel the SPriest hits hard, but I sure love the spec.

[Calamari]

Yesssssss their tears give me POWER.

Upcoming new Shadow Priest Interface leaked: