Did WW survivability get nerfed for WoD?

[Deleted]

Hi, guys,

I have a question to the ones in beta:

How is WW survivability compared to live, considering that spheres were replaced by 30energy/1.5sec cast Surging mist?

[Babylonius]

I'd say survivability is exactly the same, ToK does the same thing, all our defensives remain unchanged, as does our mobility. It's just our self-healing which isn't much to rely on most of the time. We do still have EH and the 45 talents that all provide some self-healing too.

It's hard to says how the self-healing is really affected till they start tuning numbers.

[Gurg]

I'd say survivability is exactly the same, ToK does the same thing, all our defensives remain unchanged, as does our mobility. It's just our self-healing which isn't much to rely on most of the time. We do still have EH and the 45 talents that all provide some self-healing too.

It's hard to says how the self-healing is really affected till they start tuning numbers.

This. Monks feel pretty much the same, maybe a bit slower since cost of Jab went to 50e (up from 40e) but gameplay wise were close to what are they on Live currently.
New talent, Chi Explosion (replaces BoK) makes rotation a bit more fluent as it can be cast from 1-4 chi. When cast with 3chi it generates 1chi, its Combo Procs refund 2chi back, which makes chi generation a bit more easy. Tigereye brew generation went to 1stack per 6chi (up from 4chi) but with higher chi generation it feels the same.
Second talent worth noting, Serenity, makes us burst on demand, with 1.5m CD.
Since we lost Healing Sphere our self healing went down a bit. Its compensated somewhat with Surging Mist that we got, but in current build its minor healing and hardly ever valuable to keep it on your active action bar.

Currently due to lower haste all energy classes feel slower, but overall Windwalker monks suffer minor changes and gameplay feels the same/similar as on Live.

Biggest Monk changes hit Mistweavers who are, currently, in odd place.

[Deleted]

Since we lost Healing Sphere our self healing went down a bit. Its compensated somewhat with Surging Mist that we got, but in current build its minor healing and hardly ever valuable to keep it on your active action bar.

I agree with everything but this. Yes the healing is low (I'd compare it to current ele shaman healing surge), but still pretty good: at least in a pvp setting, I see beta streamers using it in arena for pretty good results (especially considering your teleport is much more random to predict because there's no longer a cast time on it).

[Babylonius]

How the healing is now may not be the same when its live as there hasn't been a numbers tuning pass yet. This makes it almost moot to talk about the numbers of the abilities/heals. Theoretically moving from an instant cast heal to a cast time lowers your survivability to a degree regardless of the numbers; you can be interrupted and have to stop moving making you an easier target. However, until they start tuning numbers its impossible to tell how it will be when its live.

[Deleted]

Thanks all for the replies.

I just stumbled upon a change that seems too significant to ignore, because it will boost survival greatly - FSK and roll can be controlled, i.e. used around corners. Any word on if this is official or a bug? Because I didn't find it in the official patch notes

[Totaltotemic]

Thanks all for the replies.

I just stumbled upon a change that seems too significant to ignore, because it will boost survival greatly - FSK and roll can be controlled, i.e. used around corners. Any word on if this is official or a bug? Because I didn't find it in the official patch notes

It's a bug, been confirmed a few times.

[odoylerules]

It's the best bug ever. We need to stop talking about it so Blizzard forgets to fix it.

[Valsh]

I don't understand how it is the same. I'm not in beta so I can't play it myself to find out, but there have been a number of changes to Windwalker survivability aside from the chi sphere.

-Sparring has been removed. - I loved this ability. Yeah yeah it was innate so it didn't change playstyle at all, but I loved the flavor around it and the increased 15% parry chance against 1v1 mobs. Plus, I don't think anything could beat deflecting a spell with your hands when you had it glyphed.

-Swift Reflexes has been removed. - Another ability I loved the flavor of. Fighting a handful and watching my character constantly counterattacking them was pretty cool thanks to the unique animation, plus it provided a flat 5% parry increase.

So, serious question, how is our suvivability not reduced? On live I can solo all of Ulduar 25 man (including Yogg-Zero) and Lich King 25m Heroic as Windwalker without any problems, but from the looks of it I lost about 20% parry and I don't see anything compensating it.

What I found I find odd is that Celestalon was specifically asked about sparring long before patchnotes dropped and he stated that it hadn't turned out quite like they hoped and it was weaker than they wanted so they would likely buff it and/or our suvivability in some fashion. But that has yet to happen.

I'm pretty much completely dissatisfied with all Monk changes up to this point. The coolest most unique lore/flavor abilities are getting cut (CLASH WHYYYYYYY) and some of them have nothing to do with "ability bloat" (i.e. passives - sparring/swift reflexes). Then they nerf energy regen and from everything I have read it is a very slow playstyle now, the complete antithesis of why I rerolled from my warrior that I had played since vanilla. I like high speed playstyles and from the sounds of it they ruined that part of Monks.

So again, since I can't play it myself, how is our no lower when we have lost close to 20% mitigation? I ask as there may be some under the hood mechanic reworks that I am not seeing.

You're really putting too much stock into swift reflexes/sparring, it's not even 5% of the reason you're able to solo Ulduar 25. They've taken the route of making all old content a joke by making players deal increased damage to any creature lower level than them.

Having done the (untuned) heroic dungeons on beta so far and the raid tests that have been available, windwalker survivability feels just like it does on live minus the self-healing. They might adjust that in the upcoming balance patches or they might just leave it as it is, it also sucks not being able to self-heal whilst moving/autoattacking with healing orbs not a big fan of surging mist.

Between touch of karma, diffuse magic, fortifying brew, zen meditation, instant transcendence and FSK/Roll mobility we're still have far more survivability than 90% of other classes.

[Callimonk]

I'd say survivability is exactly the same, ToK does the same thing, all our defensives remain unchanged, as does our mobility. It's just our self-healing which isn't much to rely on most of the time. We do still have EH and the 45 talents that all provide some self-healing too.

It's hard to says how the self-healing is really affected till they start tuning numbers.

Honestly, and don't quote me on this, we'll more than likely be using EH almost on CD. Sure, Jab still gives 8% CB procs, but without the added dmg from 2pc, I think that it'll balance out just fine with the 10e we'd be saving from EH being used.

[Imbalanced]

Honestly, and don't quote me on this, we'll more than likely be using EH almost on CD. Sure, Jab still gives 8% CB procs, but without the added dmg from 2pc, I think that it'll balance out just fine with the 10e we'd be saving from EH being used.

Agreed assuming the healing is effective of course. Which should be often in the new model.

[Babylonius]

Honestly, and don't quote me on this, we'll more than likely be using EH almost on CD. Sure, Jab still gives 8% CB procs, but without the added dmg from 2pc, I think that it'll balance out just fine with the 10e we'd be saving from EH being used.

That's an interesting thought. Safe to say it would have to do slightly more than 4/5 the damage of Jab to be worth it?

[Imbalanced]

That's an interesting thought. Safe to say it would have to do slightly more than 4/5 the damage of Jab to be worth it?

It's stronger than that when you factor in the 10 energy saved as chi

On the other hand doesn't jab costing 50 energy make those combo breaker procs more valuable?

[Callimonk]

It's stronger than that when you factor in the 10 energy saved as chi

On the other hand doesn't jab costing 50 energy make those combo breaker procs more valuable?

It does - thus why it's more kind of a guess. I haven't had a chacne to test it, as I haven't had a working computer for around a week. Still, CB procs happen infrequently enough that I think EH at 40e is fairly balanced against Jab, even while doing about the same amount of dmg. Plus, your healers will love you.

Edit: also, EH still hits harder.

[Ulfhedinn]

Can't really say anything about healing since all healing is getting a nerf. Really need to see all the classes in their finished state to know how healing for Monks is.

[Weriik]

I can't help but believe that ToK is going to be weaker than it was. I know they doubled health pools for PvP reasons but surely raid damage in the higher difficulties will still have mechanics that deal well over 50% of a target's life, right? If that isn't the case I don't know how stuff is even meant to be dangerous. Mechanics that we could 100% or almost fully negate with ToK will be eating past into the absorb and well into our lifebars.

[Deleted]

Mechanics that we could 100% or almost fully negate with ToK will be eating past into the absorb and well into our lifebars.

I think that was one of the main reasons it got nerfed. It was incredibly strong as a personal CD, allowing to completely negate some mechanics. On top of that, it adds a little damage - quite a big amount if used on very strong abilities in combination with other def-CDs (e.g. Siegecrafter belts).