Fast-food workers, "We Are Worth More!"

[Moadar]

If you consider a country whose wealth is in the hands of only a microscopically small minority a "rich country", then sure. I don't, though. Not when you've got a few hundred million "non-rich" people.

That's the truly funny part. The ultra rich gladly screw over those with less while they somehow brain washed the poorer into defending them and their greed.

[Endus]

I do not see any reason kids, seniors, ect need to make a livable wage, doing entry level work.

There's two options;

1> Pay them a living wage
2> Expect someone else to make up the difference when you don't, meaning you're shunting off the maintenance requirements of that individual onto someone else (like the taxpayers).

The latter is the unreasonable option. There's no reason not to pay those people a living wage.

Hell, if I had my druthers, I'd push for a basic income system, and everyone would be getting their living wage direct from the government. Everyone, including the unemployed. Including kids in school. Everyone. Children would get a reduced amount until they hit 18 or are emancipated or orphaned, but everyone would be getting their basic income. I recognize this is a much more extreme proposal, however, so I usually stick with the living wage as a minimum wage, because that's just making the current system functional, rather than an all-new system.

There is no justifiable reason to deny people a living wage.

These jobs werent intended for parents or adults though. They were intended(outside of management) for high schoolers and retirees. These people need to shut up and get a real job.

This is just objectively false, on its face, and also ignores that "real jobs" are not in infinite supply.

[Aerion1]

These jobs werent intended for parents or adults though. They were intended(outside of management) for high schoolers and retirees. These people need to shut up and get a real job.

Those jobs aren't intended for anybody. They exist to exploit people and generate giant profits. Please leave and rethink your life. Maybe get an education. Because anybody who subscribes to that "get a real job " crap can't be very intelligent or educated.

[Themius]

That's the truly funny part. The ultra rich gladly screw over those with less while they somehow brain washed the poorer into defending them and their greed.

That's because they're all temporarily embarrassed millionaires.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Hell, Ill go ahead and make this all a little more personal for me. I work in Security, I sit and basically watch an entire mall ALL day, for shoplifters for basically anything, that requires to dispatched.


I make $23 and hour, of course I have worked at this job for almost 12 years, and Really it is all I ever wanted to do, I started out here at like $6.25, taking what hours I could going to different facilities owned by the company, but honestly now I basically do what is essentially a job almost anybody could do with the right experience and training, but A lot of people don't because either A. They don't want to be here, and B. Because they have the wrong mentality. We aren't cops, but at the same time we do actually have to do our jobs and monitor the property. That being said, I still don't think we should be hiring people on as guards for $7.50 an hour, because I realize that really isn't a lot to live on, and because of that we get a lot of high turn over.



Recently though we had hired on a few more new people at about $10.00 and I can tell you from first hand experience, the candidates improved, So if i found out that tomorrow the starting wage was $15 and Hour, I wouldn't complain, and I wouldn't feel that I am due some kind of Extra raise because of it.

[Tastyfish]

If you consider a country whose wealth is in the hands of only a microscopically small minority a "rich country", then sure. I don't, though. Not when you've got a few hundred million "non-rich" people.

Judging by all the conversation in this thread thats never going to change.
too many people think they are going to be or are that microscopically small minority or are going to settle for being close, so fuck everyone else.

[Khoranth]

There has to be work to get. Our unemployment/underemployment numbers, and our incarceration rates, both show there aren't.

Again, people refuse to accept the fact that millions of legal immigrants are here, doing non-college, good paying jobs, that just require a little bit of training, or knowledge above the level of an entry level job.

This is a lie being repeated over and over in this thread. It is just sad to me that so many Americans, stuck in entry level jobs,believe college is the only path to a livable wage. It is this lie being told over and over " no good jobs, unless you have a degree". it makes me so sad that people are convinced of this. I just wish this lie would disappear.

I guarantee you many of the low paid,entry level job working people are not even aware of the untold amount of good paying, non-college, jobs. I just wish our gov't would stop giving work visas for these jobs, and then companies would be forced to go recruit and train these people.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I don't need more than one LFR to know that college is not quite in everyone's wheelhouse. Further, people graduating right now are having a hell of a time finding work, almost across the board.

We simply don't need as many people to produce what we consume anymore. We will need even less in the future.

That's why the minimum wage thing is so short-sighted. It's a a symptom of the far larger "We don't have any fucking jobs" issue that is beginning to crash down on us.

Yeah Video games and anecdotal experience is a great source to judge if the populace over all is fit for college.

[Khoranth]

There's two options;

1> Pay them a living wage
2> Expect someone else to make up the difference when you don't, meaning you're shunting off the maintenance requirements of that individual onto someone else (like the taxpayers).

The latter is the unreasonable option. There's no reason not to pay those people a living wage.

Hell, if I had my druthers, I'd push for a basic income system, and everyone would be getting their living wage direct from the government. Everyone, including the unemployed. Including kids in school. Everyone. Children would get a reduced amount until they hit 18 or are emancipated or orphaned, but everyone would be getting their basic income. I recognize this is a much more extreme proposal, however, so I usually stick with the living wage as a minimum wage, because that's just making the current system functional, rather than an all-new system.

There is no justifiable reason to deny people a living wage.



This is just objectively false, on its face, and also ignores that "real jobs" are not in infinite supply.

You didnt mention the 3rd option, help get them into better paying, non-college, jobs. Considering that in the USA, millions of immigrants our here legally doing these "real jobs" we obviously have a good supply.

[Tastyfish]

That's the truly funny part. The ultra rich gladly screw over those with less while they somehow brain washed the poorer into defending them and their greed.

Back in the day the way you created an uprising was the middle and lower uniting against the upper. You burn the top part and everyone moves up a step.
The upper end has the middle so fixated in fear and greed on the poor, they have ensured that mode of them being unseated won't happen again. Your actual ally in, "US VS THEM" is not people above you, but below.
Under you is the true test of everything that makes a good person good. It's never not been that way, which is why it's silly when people get all crazy that those with less want a step up.

[Masark]

You didnt mention the 3rd option, help get them into better paying, non-college, jobs. Considering that in the USA, millions of immigrants our here legally doing these "real jobs" we obviously have a good supply.

So deport all the legal immigrants or what? If a job is occupied, it kinda isn't available for some unemployed or underemployed person to fill.

[Moadar]

Back in the day the way you created an uprising was the middle and lower uniting against the upper. You burn the top part and everyone moves up a step.
The upper end has the middle so fixated in fear and greed on the poor, they have ensured that mode of them being unseated won't happen again.
Your actual ally in, "US VS THEM" is not people above you, but below.

So true. It boggles my mind that middle and lower class people defend someone who actively buys politicians in order to make things better for them and worse for everyone else.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Honestly I find it amusing people that demonize education one minute then promote it the next as long as its the right kind of education.

Regardless to how expensive college is, or how ill advised going to school for some dead fields.


EDUCATION is actually ALWAYS a good thing, especially a Liberal Education where one exposes one self and mind to new ideas and different concepts, even though that notion scares some folks.

[Endus]

You didnt mention the 3rd option, help get them into better paying, non-college, jobs. Considering that in the USA, millions of immigrants our here legally doing these "real jobs" we obviously have a good supply.

You just said those jobs weren't available, because they're already taken.

You're arguing as if employment was infinite. It isn't. Your argument is a fantasy world that doesn't exist.

[Hammerfest]

You wouldn't know what far left was if I dropped the collected works of Karl Marx on your unhelmeted head.

I'm pretty confident I know what I'm talking about. I picked up a lot from my marxist professors in college and I live in Wisconsin, where the seat of power is Madison (or "Moscow West")... where the protests of the Left have been crystal clear... not to mention highly acerbic and disgusting.

[Khoranth]

So deport all the legal immigrants or what? If a job is occupied, it kind isn't available for some unemployed or underemployed person to fill.

No, didnt say that, but we could stop the policy of bringing more in, or stop renewing visas, for non-college jobs, and then companies would be forced to go recruit and train people out of entry level jobs. We bring in almost a million legal immigrants a year, many are here so that companies can save a little money on training. It is fucking ridiculous.

- - - Updated - - -

You just said those jobs weren't available, because they're already taken.

You're arguing as if employment was infinite. It isn't. Your argument is a fantasy world that doesn't exist.

To be clear:I am arguing millions of these jobs do exist, and are more created every year, but the US govt gives companies visas, so they can save money on training

[Chrysia]

I'm pretty confident I know what I'm talking about. I picked up a lot from my marxist professors in college and I live in Wisconsin, where the seat of power is Madison (or "Moscow West")... where the protests of the Left have been crystal clear... not to mention highly acerbic and disgusting.

1. Your "Marxist professor" isn't actually someone in power.
2. The stringently Liberal elements you'll sometimes find on campus generally hate the Democrats, the actual "Liberals" in power, because the Democrats are a center-right party and have been since Clinton, at least.

[Tydrane]

Nobody is arguing for the elimination of wage inequality, or that skilled positions shouldn't be paid more.

Yes, those other people will demand more money, too. This is the goal. To raise wages. It isn't just about those making exactly minimum wage. It's about raising the wage floor that the wage distribution is based off of. Of course that will echo up the wage ladder. That's intended, and desirable.

Maybe for anyone still foolish enough to believe a Keynesian approach to anything would ever actually work...

[bergmann620]

There's two options;

1> Pay them a living wage
2> Expect someone else to make up the difference when you don't, meaning you're shunting off the maintenance requirements of that individual onto someone else (like the taxpayers).

The latter is the unreasonable option. There's no reason not to pay those people a living wage.

Hell, if I had my druthers, I'd push for a basic income system, and everyone would be getting their living wage direct from the government. Everyone, including the unemployed. Including kids in school. Everyone. Children would get a reduced amount until they hit 18 or are emancipated or orphaned, but everyone would be getting their basic income. I recognize this is a much more extreme proposal, however, so I usually stick with the living wage as a minimum wage, because that's just making the current system functional, rather than an all-new system.

You don't find it odd that #2 is unreasonable (in your words), but your preferred solution is a more extreme version of #2.

#2 is basically Obamacare for wages, on the path toward single-payer.

[Gavilrain]

Maybe for anyone still foolish enough to believe a Keynesian approach to anything would ever actually work...

Because Reaganomics has proven to be oh so successful.....