Fast-food workers, "We Are Worth More!"

[Endus]

To be clear:I am arguing millions of these jobs do exist, and are more created every year, but the US govt gives companies visas, so they can save money on training

Those jobs aren't empty, and millions of people are born every year, in America, too.

Again; your argument is predicated on the idea that employment is an unlimited resource, which is false.

[Hammerfest]

1. Your "Marxist professor" isn't actually someone in power.
2. The stringently Liberal elements you'll sometimes find on campus generally hate the Democrats, the actual "Liberals" in power, because the Democrats are a center-right party and have been since Clinton, at least.

I suppose the Pope's an Islamist too, right?

[Masark]

Maybe for anyone still foolish enough to believe a Keynesian approach to anything would ever actually work...

What would you prefer? Austrian school?

[Gheld]

I don't need more than one LFR to know that college is not quite in everyone's wheelhouse. Further, people graduating right now are having a hell of a time finding work, almost across the board.

We simply don't need as many people to produce what we consume anymore. We will need even less in the future.

That's why the minimum wage thing is so short-sighted. It's a a symptom of the far larger "We don't have any fucking jobs" issue that is beginning to crash down on us.

Oh my god he stepped away from the tea party nonsense for a second.

So your point is that minimum wage is short-sighted because the issue is that a consumer based economy can't sustain itself indefinitely? But we're talking about 'Murica! The economy can do whatever it wants! We don't need a nanny state directing the economy! Don't tread on me!

So what should be done? Abolish the minimum wage, so that manufacturers can pay american citizens 1 dollar a day to manufacture goods so that they can be consumed by a different country (because let's face it, at a dollar a day you ain't going to be consuming much) which can afford to?

Here's the scoop sunshine; back in the early industrial era, there were lots of manufacturing jobs in the west, but they all paid peanuts. People started revolting all over the world and all of the 19th century "tea party" types had no choice but to act like they gave a shit about their workers in order to avoid being executed by angry mobs.

The first and second world war conveniently allowed unprecedented levels of state intervention in the economy at just the right time in order to artificially prop up the manufacturing sector, hence the era of "Good manufacturing sector jobs" but as that state intervention waned the incompatibility between humane working conditions, and a manufacturing based economy became more and more apparent. And now that state intervention is almost entirely gone, and *poof*

There's 1 of 3 things a country can become now (ignoring the middle east oil countries):

#1. A desolate, underpaid third world manufacturing country.
#2. A naive happily placated with all the fatty foods and flashy electronics while ignoring the fact that they are slowly self destructing country.
#3. An "abandon ship" country. One that lets go of all of the old paradigms and makes or breaks itself on a future of sustainability, and unsubscribing from the religion of economics.

If your jobs come back tea party style, it will be because your children will be making cheap 5 dollar "made in america" t-shirts for naive newly fattified korean consumers.

[Endus]

Maybe for anyone still foolish enough to believe a Keynesian approach to anything would ever actually work...

There's nothing wrong with Keynesian theory.

You don't find it odd that #2 is unreasonable (in your words), but your preferred solution is a more extreme version of #2.

#2 is basically Obamacare for wages, on the path toward single-payer.

Not exactly. The reason my #2 was unreasonable was not that the government provided the support, but that the employer shunted the burden for their employee's maintenance onto the government. A basic income system involves the government assuming that responsibility completely, so there's no betrayal of principle, which was the issue with #2 in the first place.

[Chrysia]

I suppose the Pope's an Islamist too, right?

No? How do you get that from what I said?

[Doctor Amadeus]

Trickle down economics, is not what you think is actually trickling down.

[bergmann620]

Yeah Video games and anecdotal experience is a great source to judge if the populace over all is fit for college.

So, when people say "You should go to college!", you say that not everyone can do that...

When people say, "Not everyone can go to college!", you say, "Your anecdotal experience..."

Which is it? Is college a universal solution to low-paying jobs? Or is it a solution limited to those that have the skill and ability to complete a college degree?

[MikeBogina]

a lot of the Mcdonalds here now have these little computers at the door where you can order, its much easier, quicker and less stressful than trying to order at the counter. still needs a person to cook the food for now, but the servers at the counter are easily replacable by machines.

You need someone to monitor it and every fastfood I've been to always has one person working the front counter. Not like walmart where you have 1 person monitoring 8 self checkouts. cutting down 7 workers.

Let me know when a machine makes the burgers and drinks


"I said lite ice you stupid machine. LIGHT ICE!!" - me in the distant future

[Chrysia]

So, when people say "You should go to college!", you say that not everyone can do that...

When people say, "Not everyone can go to college!", you say, "Your anecdotal experience..."

Which is it? Is college a universal solution to low-paying jobs? Or is it a solution limited to those that have the skill and ability to complete a college degree?

Skill, ability, and financial security. Also, if everyone goes to college, there will be too many people with at least some degrees, severely deprecating the value of those degrees. You'd create a new floor set of jobs that is behind a four-year pay wall.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Job pay isn't just about skill, but other things like the amount of responsibility and even retainability factors. Who cares if you retain a burger flipper...dime a dozen, but that security guard that you spent time and money to train and has been here for years is worth a few extra bucks to not have to replace with someone else. It might be worth a few extra bucks to entice that guard to stare at his monitors a little harder. Maybe this security guard needs a Secret clearance and responsible for securing classified buildings. So it isn't always just skill that goes into play.

Yeah well I understand throwing money at a problem doesn't solve the problem, when the problem isn't money, but the problem with Wages for people in Fast Food is money, not their personal life style choices.

[Deleted]

Let me know when a machine makes the burgers and drinks

Buddy, we've got machines that can build cars. I think, if someone truly wanted, they could make a robot that makes a damn burger.

[Gavilrain]

Buddy, we've got machines that can build cars. I think, if someone truly wanted, they could make a robot that makes a damn burger.

Excuse the news source: http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/...afety-recalls/

Now imagine if them robots undercooked a few hundred burgers and people ended up with salmonella...

[MikeBogina]

Buddy, we've got machines that can build cars. I think, if someone truly wanted, they could make a robot that makes a damn burger.

Let me know when though, k pal.

[Doctor Amadeus]

So, when people say "You should go to college!", you say that not everyone can do that...

When people say, "Not everyone can go to college!", you say, "Your anecdotal experience..."

Which is it? Is college a universal solution to low-paying jobs? Or is it a solution limited to those that have the skill and ability to complete a college degree?

Not being able to go to college because you can't afford to, and not being able to go to college because you're dumber than a rock are to different things. Education is a reward in and of itself, despite what financial benefits are realized right away.


More doctors going to medical school, means more people in possession of possibly life saving medical information. More people going to school Engineering, means more people capable of understanding complex systems. Education is great thing but it is not the only thing, and the decision to go to college shouldn't be about money, which is WHY IMO College degrees are almost worthless in some fields.

[Total Crica]

Excuse the news source: http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/...afety-recalls/

Now imagine if them robots undercooked a few hundred burgers and people ended up with salmonella...

kinda like when them robots pump out a few hundred faulty tires and people end up in car crashes?

[Deleted]

Let me know when though, k pal.

OK bub.

http://singularityhub.com/2013/01/22...gers-per-hour/
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-te...gers-a-minute/

There ya go.

[Masark]

I think, if someone truly wanted, they could make a robot that makes a damn burger.

They apparently have, though it seems to be getting about as much traction as slicks in the rain.

[ItachiZaku]

I make $23 and hour, of course I have worked at this job for almost 12 years

I feel safer.

[Doctor Amadeus]

kinda like when them robots pump out a few hundred faulty tires and people end up in car crashes?

That is because people who think Robots are magically going to appear to replace everybody over night, are out to lunch. Any cost saved on hiring humans, will be realized in the cost to maintain and power robots.