Next hot spot; Libya

[Deleted]

Next hotspot? Welcome to 2011.

[Puupi]

Next hotspot? Welcome to 2011.

Well it has been quite quiet in Libya until very recently.

[Deleted]

Well it has been quite quiet in Libya until very recently.

No. Hell has been brewing since the end of the revolution.
Quite and "I didn't read about it" aren't the same thing.

[Puupi]

No. Hell has been brewing since the end of the revolution.
Quite and "I didn't read about it" aren't the same thing.

Yeah it has been "brewing".
2011 revolution, 2012 Benghazi attack, then it has been rather quiet until April/May 2014.

[cFortyfive]

Why the hell they killed Gaddafi?

Something something "tinfoilhead" oil conspiracy.

then it has been rather quiet until April/May 2014.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-ci...lence_in_Libya we might have different opinions on quiet. I don't even want to know what else is going on there.

[dd614]

Which you won't hear about because Obama is responsible for the disaster there. Media ignore mode: activate!

[Dethh]

Something something "tinfoilhead" oil conspiracy.

Ok all knowing one, why was he killed?

[Deleted]

Yeah it has been "brewing".
2011 revolution, 2012 Benghazi attack, then it has been rather quiet until April/May 2014.

No. Unless you consider constant fighting between militias and army "quiet".

- - - Updated - - -

Something something "tinfoilhead" oil conspiracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-ci...lence_in_Libya we might have different opinions on quiet. I don't even want to know what else is going on there.

Well... international oil companies were actively supporting rebels. It's not a secret nor a conspiracy.

[Dethh]

No. Unless you consider constant fighting between militias and army "quiet".

- - - Updated - - -



Well... international oil companies were actively supporting rebels. It's not a secret nor a conspiracy.

Personally I think it had more to do with the Dinar becoming gold but that's tinfoil hat I guess.

[Olo]

Personally I think it had more to do with the Dinar becoming gold but that's tinfoil hat I guess.

France and the UK pushed the US into libya to prevent the dinar going on the gold standard?

[Deleted]

France and the UK pushed the US into libya to prevent the dinar going on the gold standard?

The us has been in since the beginning and the major contributor to the operation.

[Deleted]

I seriously believe helping removing Kadhafi from power (actually letting him get killed) was a mistake for Libya.

Sure he was a madman responsible for a few acts of terrorrism and shit but reading on what he has done for his country, Lybia became the richest country in Africa, education was booming, he even relaunch the project of united states of Africa which would have probably helped solve all the mess in warring countries in Africa.

I mean, yes libians probably suffered under his regime, but is it better now? was it really worth it ? Libya is at war since then without any sign of improvements toward peace and stability.

IMO the lybian rebelion should have stayed a lybian problem without any international intervention.

[Olo]

The us has been in since the beginning and the major contributor to the operation.

Because neither france or the uk has/had the logistical capabilities to pull it off. They were still the countries that most strongly advocated the intervention. Libya is an European interest, not an american one.

I seriously believe helping removing Kadhafi from power (actually letting him get killed) was a mistake for Libya.

Maybe, or it could be another syria.

Sure he was a madman responsible for a few acts of terrorrism and shit but reading on what he has done for his country, Lybia became the richest country in Africa,

Lots of sweet crude and a small population. Not much of an achievement.

relaunch the project of united states of Africa which would have probably helped solve all the mess in warring countries in Africa.

Lol what?

I mean, yes libians probably suffered under his regime, but is it better now? was it really worth it ? Libya is at war since then without any sign of improvements toward peace and stability.

France/uk/us didn't start the revolution. Would it be better if they didn't step in and the conflict was still raging?

[Kuax]

What's going on is we have a number of unrelated wars going on at the same time . . . pretty much the same as any other point in history, only now we have the Internet and TV telling everyone about all of it.

While I agree that this isn't WW3, I just couldn't point that there is a certain nation which is involved in all of that shit (except maybe Central Africa, I have no knowledge). Too bad UN is pathetically useless organization to even make a formal slap on the wrist. \-:

Consider a draft DID happen.

- Internet would explode into anti-Government rallies and anarchist riots. The Internet can rain hell on 2 teenaged girls for burning a tortoise, imagine what it could do unified for something as extreme as forced war participation.
- Most young adults are already anti-war, pro cultural diffusion and anti-political agenda. Not to mention they have millions of potential contacts all across the Earth. I could chat with a Russian right now in the click of a button.
- Politics have become such a popularity contest that announcing a draft could devastate a political party. Imagine if Obama, in all the political scandals that came with him, signed a draft under the command of congress.
- The United Nations didn't exist in WW1 and WW2.

I just don't think a draft is even possible.

Yeah, broken keyboards would surely change everything. The idea that public opinion can actually achieve anything without support of those in power is nothing more than a pipe dream. Plus propaganda machine would likely ensure that there will be a significant amount of people, who would support a draft.

[Deleted]

Because neither france or the uk has/had the logistical capabilities to pull it off. They were still the countries that most strongly advocated the intervention. Libya is an European interest, not an american one.


Maybe, or it could be another syria.

Lots of sweet crude and a small population. Not much of an achievement.

Lol what?

France/uk/us didn't start the revolution. Would it be better if they didn't step in and the conflict was still raging?

Not at all. Europe "lost" Libya. Their market is inaccessible now. Not only that. Have a look at gas ducts going from Algeria to France. We should have done that with Libya too.
The us had been in there since the beginning. Who ever coordinated this did not do a favour to Europe.

Another Syria? What do you mean? Syria IS Libya. If Gaddafi wouldn't have been killed it would have gone exactly the same way.
Both secular nations both with a strong Islamic opposition some of which extremist.

If assad dies tomorrow, Syria turns exactly into the Libya of today.

A secular country with a high human development index in the middle of North Africa? Quite an achievement. Qatar is way richer and still way way more unforgiving and brutal.

Yes, foreign powers played and supported the local malcontent. Same with Syria, Ukraine, Iran, Afghanistan.... it's a sound tactic. Divide et impera.

[Tierbook]

The us has been in since the beginning and the major contributor to the operation.

If by major contributor you mean we payed for it yes, not much beyond that.

- - - Updated - - -

While I agree that this isn't WW3, I just couldn't point that there is a certain nation which is involved in all of that shit (except maybe Central Africa, I have no knowledge). Too bad UN is pathetically useless organization to even make a formal slap on the wrist. \-:



Yeah, broken keyboards would surely change everything. The idea that public opinion can actually achieve anything without support of those in power is nothing more than a pipe dream. Plus propaganda machine would likely ensure that there will be a significant amount of people, who would support a draft.

That's the difference between the US and Russia I suppose, there's a reason we left Vietnam and it's not because it was a military loss.

[cubby]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...source=twitter

"Rocket ignites blaze near Tripoli airport, Libya in chaos"



In addition to Ukraine, Syria, Gaza, Iraq, Central Africa....there is Libya.

The situation keeps intensifying every day there. I wonder how bad the situation is going to go soon....


Are we already in WW3 without really understanding it?

I'm not really sure anything can be hotter than the Gaza strip. I mean, sure, it's looking pretty bad in Libya, no doubt, but the Gaza area is like a walking pressure mine.

[Tierbook]

I'm not really sure anything can be hotter than the Gaza strip. I mean, sure, it's looking pretty bad in Libya, no doubt, but the Gaza area is like a walking pressure mine.

What's going in Syria is much worse, ISIS seems to be walking all over the other forces.

[Kuax]

That's the difference between the US and Russia I suppose, there's a reason we left Vietnam and it's not because it was a military loss.

And what use Vietnam was for US? I'm not too informed about it, but afaik it was quite stupid proxy war between US and USSR. If my understanding is right, public opinion mattered very little here, because that war wasn't beneficial in first place. The difference between US and Russia is that US has better PR to convince the masses that their intentions are pure.

[Olo]

Not at all. Europe "lost" Libya. Their market is inaccessible now. Not only that. Have a look at gas ducts going from Algeria to France. We should have done that with Libya too.
The us had been in there since the beginning. Who ever coordinated this did not do a favour to Europe.

The fact that their goals haven't (yet) been realized doesn't change the fact that it was European interest, along with liberal interventionist on both sides, that led to outside intervention.

Another Syria? What do you mean? Syria IS Libya. If Gaddafi wouldn't have been killed it would have gone exactly the same way.

I agree. It would have probably been much worse - like Syria is now