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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Buildapanda View Post
    They don't believe people are serious?[/url]
    No. They know people are serious, they just don't give a piss because it's a tiny fraction of their playerbase bitching online and doesn't actually affect them in any way, shape or form.

    This is not how Blizzard treats "their fanbase." A vocal minority of internet whiners are not their fanbase.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerchunk View Post
    No. They know people are serious, they just don't give a piss because it's a tiny fraction of their playerbase bitching online and doesn't actually affect them in any way, shape or form.

    This is not how Blizzard treats "their fanbase." A vocal minority of internet whiners are not their fanbase.
    That thought the same about those who whined about hard heroics and mandatory dailies look where than got them.

  3. #123
    Deleted
    I find it hilarious when people pick on every word that Blizzard says, you do know they are humans right? Heck if I got so many retarded tweets to me every single day I would of said way more than that. I'm sure all who disagree with this are always calm, never get angry and sit there buttoned up right till their neck thinking "right is time to sue them"... just pls.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by lyphe View Post
    You can't design a game or class by reacting to all comments and suggestions. You can take input when it's constructive and legitimate, which Blizz has always done - but otherwise you need your own vision and you need to stick to it.

    And I love how you quote the Blue's answer to a cynical tweet from some random guy and hold it up as an example of their lousy customer service. Do you play other games? Because I do. I've played most mmo's. And if you think Blizz treats their fans badly, you sir, need to go educate yourself.

    Finally and regarding your completely ridiculous claim about how Blizzard treats fans vs stock holders ( are you 5 years old? ) ... I'll tell you what Buildapanda ... go buy some Blizzard-Activision stock and then ask them to change the monk class. Know what they'll tell you? The same thing they told the cynical tweeter. They don't treat their stockholders badly and they don't treat their fans badly either.

    Grow up.
    The irony in your response is that the mature thing he could have done was ignore it. Since he did not -- he was, in the standard stereotypical Blizzard attitude, arrogant.

    To respond to how they treat people, do you recall Ghostcrawlers Blog about abusing the "noobs" if they are bad?

    Tip: If you have to tell someone to grow up after attacking them.. you *may* want to consider spending a few moments doing some introspection.

    The issue they often run in to is making the game for *for them* and not the players. As I noted earlier, this happened with Cata. The people who were skilled at the game and had a good guild LOVED this game. The newer players or players who had to pug strongly disliked it to the point it cost millions in subscription losses. Blizzards response for three patches was something to the effect of "mock them so they get better!" -- up until some point where they did a 180 and made Dragon Soul which was incredibly easy. In fact it was so easy (by some standards) that it almost appeared like a passive aggressive move on their part. I'm not saying it was *trivial* mind you, I'm saying *relative to previous raids in that expansion* it was pretty dang easy. In fact, I knew guilds who could down Deathwing but STILL couldn't down any of the last bosses on former tiers of that xpac.

    This isn't to say the person who tweeted at Celes is correct, it's just to say that the arrogance Celes shows is not uncommon and *has* bitten them to the tune of *millions*.

    Odds are the player is misinformed. So let's sit and think about that -- how does one get so passionate *and* misinformed? I would suspect a break down in communication... Celes would be wise to read "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and to carry it as a Bible. Use Twitter as practice to work on his people skills. Unless, of course, he plans on having his position at Blizzard until he retires. Then he can ignore maturing and nurturing his people skills as much as he'd like.

    Perhaps a better response he could have had was "Why do you feel that way?"

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotcha View Post
    I still dont get how this is a threat? Its more of a 'what will it take for you to re-examine?"

    We can read into both tweets and misconstrue them to try and justify either side of the argument. But bottom line is:

    1.There was a constructive thread of feedback, on a spec which has very low numbers.
    2.These people were invited to play in the Beta and give their feedback.
    3.Celestions response is to accuse players of spreading rumors, and their observation are wrong period. End of conversation.

    So I ask you where was Celestions constructive feedback? Where were his numbers to back up his claims?

    He is a representative of the company, and one of high profile with exposure to some of the most dedicated (and hopefully valued) customers. It is his responsibility to remain professional throughout and keep the company and his personal reputation intact. He lost all credibility when he resorts to being insulting and condescending.
    Hunters feel slow also right now because you need somewhere to scale as the expansion goes on.

    So if you've been providing forum feedback then you're doing what Blizzard has asked. Taking to twitter/social media when the forums aren't getting your changes implemented is like going to mom when dad says no. Celes clarified Blizzard's stance on being energy capped. Players don't agree with this.

    Player makes threat that when everyone stops playing WW maybe we'll get our way. That's what it translates to.

    Plus there's still lots of balance tuning yet to do.
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  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenway View Post
    All of that supporting evidence and theorycraft is already done and posted.
    Then post that instead of "do this or I quit." Or, better yet, if you can't/won't do that don't talk to them at all because you make the rest of us look bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    Player makes threat that when everyone stops playing WW maybe we'll get our way. That's what it translates to.
    Used to see this style of posting a lot on the Customer Support board on Battle.net and almost universally you'll have people advise that person to quit.
    Last edited by arcaneshot; 2014-07-29 at 11:54 PM.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by DomesticViolence View Post
    It's one person threatening to leave the class if they don't get what they want, and Blizzard says they aren't swayed by threats of this kind.
    I'm actually thinking of not buying the expansion AT ALL due in part to the monk changes, and in a small part the feral druid changes. But primarily the monk changes.
    Let me explain so I don't sound like a spoiled brat.
    Been playing the game game since it came out, every expansion, understandably the game starts to get old. That being said, the WW monk in MoP was some of the most fun game play I've ever had and I LOVED the class.
    So here is this amazingly fun class that I really go into and now they are changing it in ways that I (and others) do not like.

    In WoD I get the following changes and spell removals:

    -Jab: Increased to 50 energy. That's 2 jabs and you're out of energy, or OOM so to speak. WTF.

    -Ascension: Energy regen nerfed. This combined with Jab = WW monk play style turns to a waiting game. There are other melee like this. If I liked the design, I would play those melee and not love my WW monk. Bliz says this is needed and a good change and we won't notice. I disagree and say F U Bliz.

    -Grapple Weapon: Ranged disarm (this makes sense since all disarms are leaving, however, another issue is that disarms probably should have stayed in the game, but that's another topic)

    -Sparring: parry boost. Just helps me live longer, not a huge deal, but nice to have had.

    -Swift Reflexes: A very unique damage source from parrying and worked well with Sparring. I loved this ability even though it was passive. Very useful in my opinion.

    -Healing Sphere: A very unique healing spell, that was very useful in providing instant or delayed heals on the move. Being replaced with a SHITTY ASS NORMAL HEAL.

    -Spinning Fire Blossom: A very unique ranged attack and is a skill shot. This is almost unheard of in WoW. This spell's damage was nothing to be scared of but it did allow for rooting ranged targets. A very rewarding spell for a skilled player, but you would not always land it, especially if the opponent juked. This removal is the one that broke the camels back so to speak. I love this spell. It has saved my ass so many times. So rewarding to land in a BG. Plus if you download the mod Hadouken, when you shoot it you feel like you are Ryu in street fighter.

    See a trend? The unique stuff that made the class different and fun is being changed into the same old bland shit other classes have.

    I could list the druid changes I hate but the monk changes are the main ones that have me upset, and why I still haven't pre-ordered the game and am on the fence if I'm am even buying it.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Dotcha View Post
    How about a non-douchey and condescending response instead. You know some middle ground.
    You know what? I'm honestly tired of the attitudes people take when dealing with corporations and customer service. It's time for the public to grow up and grow a pair. There's no need to be appalled and insulted when somebody is less than pleasant when dealing with you. Obviously politeness (on both ends) goes a long way towards getting things done, but I don't get why people who work customer service for a business are automatically expected to have a happy-go-lucky, yell-at-me-all-you-want, must-smile-no-matter-what attitude. Have you ever worked customer service? It is easily one of the least rewarding and terrible jobs a person can have just because of the attitude that you have to be all smiles and take people's crap, but you're not allowed to show any kind of frustration or anger. It's exacerbated a thousand fold when either A) you work for a big corporation that you have no personal attachment to, or B) Your primary job isn't even customer service (ie, Celestalon.) It's time to just deal with it when devs get snarky because they've been far more transparent, open and concise with us during WoD development than they ever have been in the past.

    So my OT response would be yes, the answer seems to be a bit snippy. But they get people threatening to quit over XX class change probably 100 times a day. That sort of feedback is not constructive nor does it ever lead anywhere. Do you know how many times I've heard friends of mine complain about a class change and yet, a year later, here they are still playing the same class. The threats are meaningless and the feedback is useless. I challenge you to see those types of responses 100 times a day and not eventually grow a little snippy.

  9. #129
    Herald of the Titans Tech Priest Bojangles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcaneshot View Post
    Then post that instead of "do this or I quit." Or, better yet, if you can't/won't do that don't talk to them at all because you make the rest of us look bad.
    It's all been posted already. What part of that did you not get?
    The initial post wasn't a "Do this or I quit" post either. It was suggesting that removing the very reason people play WW means a lot of people are going to find a new class. Which is genius because monks are the least played class to begin with. Christ.
    -=From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the blessed machine. Your kind claimed your flesh as if it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass that you call a temple will wither, and you will beg my kind to save you... But I am already saved..... For the machine is immortal=-

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenway View Post
    It's all been posted already. What part of that did you not get?
    The initial post wasn't a "Do this or I quit" post either. It was suggesting that removing the very reason people play WW means a lot of people are going to find a new class. Which is genius because monks are the least played class to begin with. Christ.
    Except it wasn't said in a helpful manner. Saying "Maybe when WW numbers drop you guys will agree" is basically implying "My opinion on how the class feels right now is representative of the entire WW population, and you guys are clearly ignorant."

  11. #131
    just delete monks and pandaren from the game. MoP was all just a bad dream
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  12. #132
    Herald of the Titans Tech Priest Bojangles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wowalixi View Post
    Except it wasn't said in a helpful manner. Saying "Maybe when WW numbers drop you guys will agree" is basically implying "My opinion on how the class feels right now is representative of the entire WW population, and you guys are clearly ignorant."
    It's hard to get anything across properly on Twitter. Everyone is gonna interpret it differently.
    If you've visited the WW Feedback threads then that guy's opinion IS representative of the Windwalkers in Beta.
    -=From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the blessed machine. Your kind claimed your flesh as if it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass that you call a temple will wither, and you will beg my kind to save you... But I am already saved..... For the machine is immortal=-

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenway View Post
    It's hard to get anything across properly on Twitter. Everyone is gonna interpret it differently.
    If you've visited the WW Feedback threads then that guy's opinion IS representative of the Windwalkers in Beta.
    "Celestalon, please take a look at the WW class forums. Much discouragement with the status of WW atm."

    Only took 100/160 characters.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldrad View Post
    -Jab: Increased to 50 energy. That's 2 jabs and you're out of energy, or OOM so to speak. WTF.
    True, except then you get several GCDs of energy-free abilities, during which energy regenerates. And WW has multiple free abilities to supplement that with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldrad View Post
    -Ascension: Energy regen nerfed. This combined with Jab = WW monk play style turns to a waiting game.
    Irrelevant since no WW playing at a decent level should be using Ascension anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldrad View Post
    -Healing Sphere: A very unique healing spell, that was very useful in providing instant or delayed heals on the move. Being replaced with a SHITTY ASS NORMAL HEAL.
    A valid concern, but WW's self-healing is already much higher than that of most other specs, and they can tune the remaining instant heals higher if survival becomes a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldrad View Post
    -Spinning Fire Blossom: A very unique ranged attack and is a skill shot. This is almost unheard of in WoW. This spell's damage was nothing to be scared of but it did allow for rooting ranged targets. A very rewarding spell for a skilled player, but you would not always land it, especially if the opponent juked.
    This is really one of the few ability removals that I really disagree with, too. I can understand that the ranged root may have been too much for a highly mobile spec when they're reducing mobility across the board, but it was nice to have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldrad View Post
    See a trend? The unique stuff that made the class different and fun is being changed into the same old bland shit other classes have.
    The only case of this happening from what you listed was Healing Sphere, and that was only because you could pre-cast them and save them for when you needed them. Everything else you listed was either generic or using mechanics that other spells already had.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Why should they listen to it? How is threatening Blizzard going to bring about the right changes? Who would respond well to "we'll all stop playing!" every time someone doesn't agree with the smallest change. Good on Blizzard for standing up to dicks.
    Well players have done it and Blizzard has responded in favor to such. While negative things tend to stand out more than some of the more positive and quickly handled issues there is still quite a bit of big things with lots of threats and even griefing done by players that resulted in action of favor of the disgruntled party even if it was a minority. It is fairly expected from the playerbase to act hostile towards Blizzard to get anything out of them even an answer that Blizzard had been holding back.

    Blizzards prior choices to cater to such hostility rather than focus on more constructive level headed discussions is of their own fault.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2014-07-30 at 02:28 AM.

  16. #136
    I might have just missed it, but on the subject of the tweets themselves, there's a rather good question:

    Rogues and Feral both save up energy to use on cooldowns/finishers that require energy to power them up or to have enough to push into a small window, but Windwalkers only use energy to build a secondary resource that is used to do damage and thus pooling doesn't do anything like that, so why would they want to pool energy in the first place? Windwalkers don't have a finisher and their +60% damage cooldown can be activated all the time depending on mastery levels as it has no actual cooldown.
    Last edited by WanderingBreezes; 2014-07-30 at 03:03 AM.

  17. #137
    "Fix my spec or I'll quit."
    - Beast Mastery Hunters, circa 2008

    "Fix my spec or I'll quit."
    - PVE Frost Mages, circa 2009

    "Fix my spec or I'll quit."
    - Enchancement Shamans, circa 2010

    "Fix my spec or I'll quit."
    - Unholy Death Knights, circa 2011

    "Fix my spec or I'll quit."
    - Beast Mastery Hunters, circa 2012


    "Fix my spec or I'll quit."
    - Demonology Warlocks, circa 2013

    "Fix my spec or I'll quit."
    - Shadow Priests, circa 2014


    Stuff happens. Every spec's DPS will suck sooner or later.

    Except Arcane. Two buttons is hard...

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  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Just go Brewmaster and be an overlord tank.
    Currently on the Beta we're not the best, Druid & Death Knight beat us by a mile and we're taking a lot of damage and our raid utility has been destroyed. Our Statue no longer gives Guard to raid members, we've lost Avert Harm and our own Guard ability may have 2 Charges but on a health pool of 300K+ it only gives a ~30K shield, and our Expel Harm is equally as lame.

    Who knows how it'll turn out after more tuning and changes, but currently we're not that strong.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Why should they listen to it? How is threatening Blizzard going to bring about the right changes? Who would respond well to "we'll all stop playing!" every time someone doesn't agree with the smallest change. Good on Blizzard for standing up to dicks.
    The flip side is.. why should they not? If the game play feels so bad that players would not want to play it (since numbers at present are irrelevant still) then that is a serious issue that should not be ignored. Depending on why people say it. Havent really tried windwalker, i tried mist fistweaving for leveling some weeks ago and it felt kinda nerfed (yes i used the right stance) or perhaps better said as.. weaker in both selfhealing and damage than a disc priest hitting random keys but that is numbers so *shrugs* might even be changed by now, who knows.

    Anyhow to the point.. to the extent that issues are real they should listen because if the class fell into abandonment the time spend would have been wasted. Also if the issues are somewhat real they will end up having to fix it later. Of course some people just exaggerate issues and some whine about numbers which atm is pointless

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarkan View Post
    The flip side is.. why should they not? If the game play feels so bad that players would not want to play it (since numbers at present are irrelevant still) then that is a serious issue that should not be ignored. Depending on why people say it.
    It doesn't matter why they said it, it matters HOW they said it.

    Think about it; would you be more willing to someone that thinks you're wrong for eating a burger and lays out reasons why, or someone who threatens to slash your tires for eating the burger?

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