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  1. #161
    Listening to feedback =/= we're going to change it.

    Even if you provide well thought out ideas and put it to blizzard perfectly and it's 100% civil and clear. They do NOT have to listen to it, what they will most likely do, is take note of it and save it for later if they believe it warrants a second review and maybe take some ideas out of it.

    A lot of players bitch and moan about specs and never give constructive criticism about it. They say things like "Subs will drop" to try and get others to jump on the bandwagon.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by alucardtnuoc View Post
    Listening to feedback =/= we're going to change it.

    Even if you provide well thought out ideas and put it to blizzard perfectly and it's 100% civil and clear. They do NOT have to listen to it, what they will most likely do, is take note of it and save it for later if they believe it warrants a second review and maybe take some ideas out of it.

    A lot of players bitch and moan about specs and never give constructive criticism about it. They say things like "Subs will drop" to try and get others to jump on the bandwagon.
    If Celestalon had said "thanks for the feedback we'll look in to it" the issue would not have arisen. Oh and for the umpteenth time no-one said subs will drop.

  3. #163
    Bloodsail Admiral Zenway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alucardtnuoc View Post
    Even if you provide well thought out ideas and put it to blizzard perfectly and it's 100% civil and clear. They do NOT have to listen to it, what they will most likely do, is take note of it and save it for later if they believe it warrants a second review and maybe take some ideas out of it.
    You mean wait until it's too late? Yeah that sounds smart.
    Still not seeing the reason behind inviting all the top monks if you're not gonna listen to them at all and just do your own retarded thing.
    Thank god for Jim Sterling

  4. #164
    Scarab Lord Zka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Hmm, okay. In which case why should players waste their time testing and feeding back the results of their testing to Blizzard?
    Because 1) feedback is heard and listened to. Not all the time, but generally. 2) testing is fun.

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  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post

    Yeah you see none of them insulted Celestalon nor did any of them threaten to unsub or ask Blizzard if they play the same game as they do. Perhaps you should rely on actually reading what was written rather than assumption?


    Perhaps you need to work on that reading yourself. His 'threats like that' comment was a direct reply to this:

    "maybe when the ww numbers start to drop you guys will agree. Blizzard sold us a "fast pacing street fighter style"."

    Oh look, its someone vaguely threatening to stop playing their toon (and suggesting lots of others will as well) because they don't approve of the current direction of the class/spec. He even goes as far as to say 'you will agree' when that happens, meaning 'when we all stop playing WW you will agree with the way we think it should be' - even though they aren't the people designing the game.

    So yeah, I feel pretty damn validated. Maybe it wasn't a threat to unsub (I never said this specific example was, btw) but it was still a threat. In this case, that lots of players will drop WW until Blizzard agrees with them.

    So yeah. You have very little room to talk about reading and assuming.
    I'm not a defender of Blizzard, I'm an opponent of stupid.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Zka View Post
    Because 1) feedback is heard and listened to. Not all the time, but generally. 2) testing is fun.
    1) Clearly it is not, the twitter conversation is a prime example other notable examples of feedback being ignored are Dks being OP when they were introduced, the difficulty of heroics not being addressed before almost 2 million customers left and Ghostcrawler made a fool of himself gating rewards behind two lots of rep at the beginning of MOP.

    2) No doubt for some it is but I would imagine that the amount of fun derived from it is diminished when the results are routinely dismissed.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    If you don't want Blizzard to treat you like a child don't act like a fuckin' child.
    Bingo. It's basically the equivalent of a child saying "well if we can't play the way I want to, I'm not going to play with you anymore." Can you blame Blizzard if they're sick of hearing that line all the time over the past ten years?

  8. #168
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    Well as far as I see things it's like this. Fanbase whines, Blizz are being stone faced. in short both are assholes. true this is blizzards game but at the same time they should have more respect for their fans. Likewise Fans need to stop thinks that they own this game and have the right to boss the devs around because they play and pay, ergo think that they have more of a say that the devs. WTF, this is just making matters worse both for themselves and the ones on both sides who don't want to behave like asses but are just as much or even more affect that the arguing parties.

    Simply put it takes two to tango and the sooner folks understand it, that better for us all.
    Power never corrupts but it brings out ones true self. Think about that for a moment.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Perhaps you need to work on that reading yourself. His 'threats like that' comment was a direct reply to this:

    "maybe when the ww numbers start to drop you guys will agree. Blizzard sold us a "fast pacing street fighter style"."

    Oh look, its someone vaguely threatening to stop playing their toon (and suggesting lots of others will as well) because they don't approve of the current direction of the class/spec. He even goes as far as to say 'you will agree' when that happens, meaning 'when we all stop playing WW you will agree with the way we think it should be' - even though they aren't the people designing the game.

    So yeah, I feel pretty damn validated. Maybe it wasn't a threat to unsub (I never said this specific example was, btw) but it was still a threat. In this case, that lots of players will drop WW until Blizzard agrees with them.

    So yeah. You have very little room to talk about reading and assuming.
    Yes? And? That does not fit in with you said. He is not insulting Blizzard, he is not threatening to quit nor is he questioning whether Blizzard are playing the same game.

    Oh look, it is someone pointing out that in its current state, due the problems they have been pointing out, WW is not a "fast pacing street fighter style" as sold to them by Blizzard. He is not threatening to quit the class at all he is saying that the class does not work as it is supposed to. Are you suggesting that players who are looking for a fast paced class will continue to play it when they find out it is anything but?

    His sentence begins with the word "maybe" so it does not mean "'when we all stop playing WW you will agree with the way we think it should be" as you claim.

    I am glad you feel validated although all you have so far proved is that you have not understood what was written.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    1) Clearly it is not, the twitter conversation is a prime example other notable examples of feedback being ignored are Dks being OP when they were introduced, the difficulty of heroics not being addressed before almost 2 million customers left and Ghostcrawler made a fool of himself gating rewards behind two lots of rep at the beginning of MOP.

    2) No doubt for some it is but I would imagine that the amount of fun derived from it is diminished when the results are routinely dismissed.
    3) Blizzard employees have flat out said that they didn't change blatantly broken things because they don't believe that the info gathered in beta is indicative of how the game will play out on live, despite many, many examples of the opposite being true

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    3) Blizzard employees have flat out said that they didn't change blatantly broken things because they don't believe that the info gathered in beta is indicative of how the game will play out on live, despite many, many examples of the opposite being true
    I'm not sure I follow this assertion, since the whole purpose of a Beta is to test and determine how things will play out on live. Add to the fact that they've already tuned and re-tuned a variety of things (from class skills to NPC abilities to zone changes) based on player feedback from within the Beta? On the face of it your claim makes no real sense.
    Look at these eyebrows! They're attack eyebrows. You could take bottle tops off with these. They’re cross. Crosser than the rest of my face. They’re independently cross. They probably want to cede from the rest of my face and set up their own independent state of eyebrows.

  12. #172
    Bloodsail Admiral Dipstick's Avatar
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    Sometimes I think the devs listen to much. Who would want to watch a movie by Quinton Terantino if he polled the audience to make every decision?

    1. Should Jules curse?
    2. Should Jules shoot the dealer guy?
    3. Should Jules say he doesn't like pork?

    And then there would be a huge flame war on the Terantino forums about each response.

  13. #173
    Since I was threatened with an infraction for pointing out a moderators mistake I might as well take them up on their offer.

    I just made this thread cause I knew it would get a lot of pages of replies, I actually dgaf what blizzard says and think people that do listen and follow what they say are nerds and I just made this thread to troll.

  14. #174
    The Lightbringer Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    If Celestalon had said "thanks for the feedback we'll look in to it" the issue would not have arisen. Oh and for the umpteenth time no-one said subs will drop.
    He provided two direct answers why it works this way and they continued. Think of it like this.

    Why is flying bring removed Blizzard? To encourage world pvp and design a better questing process.
    But Blizzard the removal of flight slows down the game. While that may be, it allows us to design content to be paced appropriately.
    When everyone quits because they can'y fly you'll change your mind.

    People have this idea that if you insult a company via twitter they will cave. In many cases they do.
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  15. #175
    Legendary! Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumbasta View Post
    "I'm not going to play it!" is a childish and useless argument.
    Not really, although the person stating the above should elaborate. What specific mechanic changes make the class less fun for him to the point of wanting to reroll.

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  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    Because their fanbase treats them like that. If you don't want Blizzard to treat you like a child don't act like a fuckin' child.

    When does dealing with a corporation mean you are entitled to act like a whiny turd
    Amen. No need to fill out 10 chars.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    He provided two direct answers why it works this way and they continued. Think of it like this.

    Why is flying bring removed Blizzard? To encourage world pvp and design a better questing process.
    But Blizzard the removal of flight slows down the game. While that may be, it allows us to design content to be paced appropriately.
    When everyone quits because they can'y fly you'll change your mind.

    People have this idea that if you insult a company via twitter they will cave. In many cases they do.
    You must have read a different set of tweets from me. He completely denies that there is a problem a with WW being slow paced.

    The topic of flight has and is still being discussed to death, there is a 500+ page thread in WOD section if you wish to join in with it, nor is your example using flight a accurate reflection of what was actually said about WWs.

    There were no threats made so I guess once again we're back to you having read different tweets from me.

  18. #178
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    You must have read a different set of tweets from me. He completely denies that there is a problem a with WW being slow paced.
    That's because he doesn't believe 6.0 WW is a slow-paced spec, and from what I've seen he's right. WW was slowed down a little, but not that much. People vastly overexaggerate how dramatic the changes to the spec's speed were (i.e. claiming it's as slow as rogues or Ferals, which it's definitely not).

    And people completely ignore that they are going from end-of-expansion-high gear levels to entry-level gear levels and also losing reforging, which vastly reduces their haste. If it was possible to test WW in WoD's final raid gear levels, it would probably be just as fast as today. Heck, if you jump into a Proving Ground on live, where your gear is dropped to 463, it probably feels even slower than it does on beta.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    That's because he doesn't believe 6.0 WW is a slow-paced spec, and from what I've seen he's right. WW was slowed down a little, but not that much. People vastly overexaggerate how dramatic the changes to the spec's speed were (i.e. claiming it's as slow as rogues or Ferals, which it's definitely not).

    And people completely ignore that they are going from end-of-expansion-high gear levels to entry-level gear levels and also losing reforging, which vastly reduces their haste. If it was possible to test WW in WoD's final raid gear levels, it would probably be just as fast as today. Heck, if you jump into a Proving Ground on live, where your gear is dropped to 463, it probably feels even slower than it does on beta.
    Now if only they had discussed the very issues you've just claimed they ignored - oh look - they did! Seriously read the tweets before commenting.

  20. #180
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Now if only they had discussed the very issues you've just claimed they ignored - oh look - they did! Seriously read the tweets before commenting.
    I follow Celestalon's twitter and his replies to 99% of the WW feedback has been fine. He only got snarky with the ONE GUY who threatened that the spec population would drop as a result of the changes, which falls into my overexaggeration comment above (the whole "sold us a fast-paced spec" thing is ridiculous, because the spec wasn't slowed down that much).

    Seriously, if you want to get into a "READ WHAT HE SAID" war, go read his full comment history instead of that one tweet.

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