Mob tapping system stays, Blizz feels it encourages social gameplay

[Barkloud]

This mechanic should have been turned off years ago. It makes me hate seeing other players in game.

Blizzard Post: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...549?page=7#138

There's no question that when spawning or quest objectives are not handled properly on our side, the tap system can create negative and anti-social experiences, wherein seeing players of your own faction nearby becomes a nuisance. We very much want to limit and rectify those situations. The most helpful thing you can do in that regard during beta is to bring to our attention specific quests or areas in which you felt competition for spawns was overly detrimental to your experience. We have a number of ways of fixing those problems, ranging from simply adding additional spawns, to dynamic spawn thresholds that ramp up density as player density increases, to making specific targets open tap.

The main reason we don't embrace a fully open-tap world is that we feel that those mechanics are asocial. To be fair, that is certainly better than antisocial - no question there, and antisocial experiences usually reflect spawning and mechanics that we need to adjust. However, while a world in which everyone runs around damaging things a few times (or however much is needed to qualify for credit) may be one in which you don't feel bad about other players being around, at some point it also makes those players nearly indistinguishable from NPCs or bots with decent AI. You don't need to talk, or ask if someone has room in their group or would like to join yours. You just attack a few times, and then move on.

On the other hand, mob tagging rules inherently reward and encourage social gameplay. Even in solo areas like daily quest hubs in Mists, we'd commonly see transient pickup groups form for the sake of efficiency, and stick together through that hub or maybe even another ("hey, anyone up for Klaxxi after this?"). But once again, it's incumbent upon us to make sure that we avoid situations where that is outweighed by negatives like competing for underspawned quest targets or objects.

Philosophically, for a while now, we've made sure that any time multiple players are sent to kill a single specific target that has a respawn timer (be it named quest boss, world boss, or an event like the Battlefield: Barrens commanders in patch 5.3), the mob is open to credit for all. We're certainly open to extending that treatment where it makes sense, and where it serves to improve the overall experience. But I wouldn't expect a wholesale overhaul of our tap mechanics in the near future.

Mod Edit: Added formatting for Bluequote to improve clarity.

[ro9ue]

I personally think Blizzard is just flat out wrong. I've played multiple MMOs with open tap and it made a much more socially friendly environment.

[SL1200]

Sometimes I wonder if the developers are playing the same game I am. That, or they play on their own private server that's not extremely overcrowded like Area52-us is. Everything is so crowded and it's so hard to find anything to kill that it just becomes un fun.

[Deleted]

Dunno. When i played in GW2 and Wildstar basically noone wanted to group up as "we dont need to group just hit it to get credit". So i can easily see the thought behind the Blizzard decision.

[Skillslam]

Blizzard decides what is good and bad. That's all you need to know, so be thankful

[Denkou]

I think it goes both ways. I think tagging can encourage social gameplay.

For instance: player A sees player B killing a mob he needs to kill. Player A invites player B to a group, they quest together, social gameplay is achieved.

-or-

Player A sees player B killing a mob he needs to kill. He thinks, "screw this guy, he's taking my mobs," doesn't invite him to group, finds another area with mobs and quests by himself.

Ultimately its up to the players themselves to make that decision. It does seem that social gameplay is a thing of the past. When I first started playing years ago, it seemed like players were generally more open to grouping with strangers, but these days it appears more and more players would rather do their own thing.

[Ihnasir]

I know some of the rares and quest "bosses" in Frostfire were open tap, and it encouraged people to at least come together, help out, and buff each other.

[jadedfuture]

I agree on Blizzards behalf on this one. Seems like a logical point.

[Blufossa]

Dunno. When i played in GW2 and Wildstar basically noone wanted to group up as "we dont need to group just hit it to get credit". So i can easily see the thought behind the Blizzard decision.

??? But those mobs require 2-5+ people to actually kill them. Then you say "thanks" and go on your merry way. What's the big deal?

I think it goes both ways. I think tagging can encourage social gameplay.

For instance: player A sees player B killing a mob he needs to kill. Player A invites player B to a group, they quest together, social gameplay is achieved.

-or-

Player A sees player B killing a mob he needs to kill. He thinks, "screw this guy, he's taking my mobs," doesn't invite him to group, finds another area with mobs and quests by himself.

Ultimately its up to the players themselves to make that decision. It does seem that social gameplay is a thing of the past. When I first started playing years ago, it seemed like players were generally more open to grouping with strangers, but these days it appears more and more players would rather do their own thing.

In WoW currently, it's mostly #2.

In WildStar it's: Player A sees Player B killing mobs for X quest, runs over and assists them without ever grouping. Both get their quest done and move on. Big deal.

[foxHeart]

Mob-tagging doesn't encourage socialization any more than implementing a queue system for 5 player content. Often times people join, get things done, then leave immediately after (or even before, for some) loot gets handed out without even saying word, most times. You can't really encourage people to be social as much as they believe you can. You can encourage people to join up for more efficient questing/farming, but even then the people who are social will continue to be social in that environment while people like me will say as little as they need to because they're not looking for e-buddies.

[snuzzle]

I personally think Blizzard is just flat out wrong. I've played multiple MMOs with open tap and it made a much more socially friendly environment.

Seriously. Open-tap is asocial? Finders keepers is more social? Are they playing the same game we are?!

I can't even count the number of angry, profanity-laced whispers I've gotten over the years when I accidentally grabbed a mob or node someone else had their eye on. Or the amount of times I've sworn to myself when some dingus comes racing in to tap the node I was clearing to while I'm fighting the three mobs who were guarding it.

When the world is open-tap, players are more likely to pitch in and help just for the heck of it. We don't need to all get the gold or even the XP, but as long as we all get the quest complete, that's fine with me.

This is one thing Blizzard is just flat out wrong on, and they're so backwards on it that it's positively baffling to me.

[Granyala]

I personally think Blizzard is just flat out wrong.

I agree and it's very sad that they don't see it.

I rather snipe mobs via DoT spam than group up with randoms.
Esp when I am waiting for a dungeon queue during questing.

[Awbee]

The thing is, you often simply don't want to actually literally group up with other players. When you're queuing for a dungeon or raid or scenario, grouping with another player for questing will kick you out of that queue. No one wants that. Or you might want to play on your own time, going for coffee breaks every 10 minutes without having to pay attention to the tempo of another person in your party.

Open tagging just induces friendly, social gameplay. Not overly social like actual grouping, but as I just explained, a lot (probably most) players don't want to group up when out in the world, anyways. But they'd certainly be up for helping that person over there kill some mobs, working on some quests together, then parting ways again. That's how I've experienced in GW2, it's a very relaxed, social, friendly athmosphere, and that's amazing. The tagging system in WoW is one of the things that stuck out the most to me, like a sore thumb, when I returned to WoW a couple months ago. It feels unnatural, anti-social, and makes you avoid other players.

Grouping also feels ... divided, and small. So you're in a group with one or two other players, but then you encounter another group, and then you start battling for tags again. In games like GW2, everyone is in your group. All the players in the game are on your side, and theoretically and most often practically helping you when you meet them out in the world.

Hope Blizzard will one day change their minds on this, it would absolutely improve the game, in my opinion.

[Galbrei]

It makes sense to limit open-tag in my opinion, I do hope they leave it on for rares.

[Granyala]

Dunno. When i played in GW2 and Wildstar basically noone wanted to group up as "we dont need to group just hit it to get credit". So i can easily see the thought behind the Blizzard decision.

That's the whole point. Forcing rigid group setups in the open world is unnecessary, detrimental even if you have other, conflicting systems in place. (Dungeon queue gets reset when you change group status)

This is just unnecessary frustrating design.

[Denkou]

In WoW currently, it's mostly #2.

In WildStar it's: Player A sees Player B killing mobs for X quest, runs over and assists them without ever grouping. Both get their quest done and move on. Big deal.

Yes, it is mostly #2, and yes, the tagging system is a little archaic in this day and age. But, like I said, in the end its up to the player. If more players would take the initiative and invite strangers to groups rather than whispering them and cussing them out when they steal a quest mob, well, that would be mutually beneficial to both parties. But, with the playerbase the game has now, it seems like people would rather get angry and throw tantrums rather than try to be nice to strangers.

I'm not saying that open tagging doesn't promote social gameplay. Both types of tagging can go both ways. Open tagging is just a little more easy since you don't have to group, but then again, is that really social? Players can just run up to mobs that are halfway dead, attack them once, then keep running and find another mob, without ever talking to the person that was killing it in the first place.

We can complain all we want about the game being social or antisocial or immersive or what have you, but at the end of the day its on us to create the social environment that we want. You may not agree with the system, but that doesn't mean there aren't ways to make it a social game. I don't know about everyone else, but I'll be the guy inviting people that are killing my quest mobs to a group so that we can play and quest together without getting mad that we're stealing each other's mobs.

[Wondercrab]

Wow. Just wow. I think I've run out of tolerance for the design philosophy of WoD completely at this point. They just seem intent on preserving archaic systems in the game that have widespread negatives for the sake of facilitating some incredibly minor and subjective positive -- not to mention that the way they facilitate these things is to force them rather than to offer compelling reasons for players to engage in this type of behaviour of their own accord.

Wouldn't it be a novel idea to allow players to choose how and when they socialise with others, rather than attempting to force it by throwing clunky and cumbersome game mechanics in front of them? The correct way to encourage social interaction is to make players feel like they're rewarded for engaging in it, rather than making them frustrated by the existence of other players when they don't.

[darkwarrior42]

For the sake of social gameplay? Mob tagging is, in part, responsible for while I react with such negativity to seeing other people questing in the same area as me; because it just went from "relaxing questing" to "compete for mobs or wait for respawns". Attempts to group sometimes lead to a party that works together, but just as often leads to the person I invite using that time to take kills because I stopped to send an invite.

So now, I just go for the kills myself; I'm aware that this perpetuates the problem, but I'm not willing to put myself at a disadvantage for the sake of other people, particularly when, thanks to CRZ, most of the time those people are from other servers and I'll never see them again anyways. They might as well be NPCs, for as much relevance as they'll hold to me after the questing is complete.

[Barkloud]

Dunno. When i played in GW2 and Wildstar basically noone wanted to group up as "we dont need to group just hit it to get credit". So i can easily see the thought behind the Blizzard decision.

I think groups for outdoor content is a dated mechanic. i get it for instances, but not open world questing.

I played with people in Wildstar for long periods without grouping. We were all on the same quest lines.

In WOW it is a nightmare seeing people.

[Dilbon]

Forcing people to group is not social gameplay.