CC break abilities should mostly be pre-emptive?

[gestapo]

Seeing the recent change to tremor (excellent change) and the removal of barkskin from Feral makes me believe that they want to take WoD in the direction of having CC breaks being used in anticipation or pre-emptively. Currently, it feels like there isn't much thought put into some cc breaks where it's simply get cc'd - use cc break.

How does the pvp community feel about this? I think even if we can't make all cc breaks preemptive use, they should be changed - for e.g. Warrior berserker rage is a prime candidate for being balanced better.

[Deleted]

Seeing the recent change to tremor (excellent change) and the removal of barkskin from Feral makes me believe that they want to take WoD in the direction of having CC breaks being used in anticipation or pre-emptively. Currently, it feels like there isn't much thought put into some cc breaks where it's simply get cc'd - use cc break.

How does the pvp community feel about this? I think even if we can't make all cc breaks preemptive use, they should be changed - for e.g. Warrior berserker rage is a prime candidate for being balanced better.

I agree. With a new expansion coming where lots of CC has been removed and/ord been merged in DR-category
there is simply no logic for having the same amout of cc-breaks left in the game.

Also on beta we can now see dispels having 2 charges via a glyph.

Im all for removing cc-breaks. Trinket should be enough in WoD.

[Deleted]

I am fine with this as long as CC breaks on damage, yes fear I am looking at you so if you hit me while I am feared then CC is over. It happens with polymorph so why not fear?

One argument for that is that polymorph brings you to full HP and fear doesnt.

[Speaknoevil]

Fear breaks from damage, it is threshold based so that DoT effects don't make the ability useless.

Obviously.

So, so, so, so obviously.

[Wheetos]

definitely increases the skill cap of respective classes, plus im fed up of shaman being so easy to play

[gestapo]

Also, wasn't the culprit warrior fear not breaking on damage more so than lock/priest? I think polys healing effect could stand to be lowered as well?
The shaman change was a good one. Are there any other obvious offenders?

[Rorke]

Someone explain to me why the Tremor change is so good. To me it's just a big "fuck you" to Resto Shamans in particular. Yeah sure Tremor break was powerful, but that was their gimmick for a long time. I guess it needed to change because they had to nerf CC for whatever reason. Oh wait, they nerfed CC across the board because "that's what the playerbase wants" and this is supposed to be "good for the game."

Yeah we'll see how that turns out. Less CC = more time spent on mashing pve rotations is really how its going to turn out. I have no idea where this "let's hate CC" train of thought from the playerbase came from. It's dumb because mindless CC has been apart of this game for a long time.

I don't know why people still think that spammable CC and CC breaks require no skill. How is taking things away by pruning class toolkits and forcing casters to stand and cast make the game harder? I feel as though its the reverse, the more buttons, the more power classes have, the higher the skill floor and cap is.

Also, wasn't the culprit warrior fear not breaking on damage more so than lock/priest? I think polys healing effect could stand to be lowered as well?

Warrior fear just needs to be thrown back on a 3 minute cool down and cost 30 rage. They're never going to fix the stupid random fear stun from it even though in cata it would break from getting hit by a pebble. Warrior fear is also not the same as a normal fear because its considered a "physical fear" so you can't immune it through anti magic defensive abilities.

[Ramaloce]

I think it's a long overdue change and I hope every single cc break follows this route (Trinket being the obvious exception), even Will of the Forsaken (and I main forsaken).

[Rorke]

Will of the Forsaken shouldn't even be in the game. It's easily the most overtuned racial in the game.

[Theed]

All ccbreaks should become pre emptive. But holinka said they currently do not have this plan.

https://twitter.com/holinka/status/493792167454728192

This comment has not been discussed much. I think without the changes classes with ccbreaks will have a major advantage.

[Grinderofl]

In that case CC's should no longer be instant. None of them. That includes the warlock talents, and fear should just become a talent. Psychic scream is already down that route.

[Theed]

In that case CC's should no longer be instant. None of them. That includes the warlock talents, and fear should just become a talent. Psychic scream is already down that route.

Almost all instant cc has been removed (PoM Sheep, NS Clone etc.) and has a cast time now or requires melee range (Psychic Scream). The exception is melee cc.

[Deleted]

There is still alot of instant cc but its a step in the right direction and hopefully more instans will be nerfed soon.

[Shamanegans]

Will of the Forsaken shouldn't even be in the game. It's easily the most overtuned racial in the game.

Not a patch on the human racial. The human racial allows every single class that plays a human to hit harder then any other race at PvP. WotF is strong yeah but it's by far not the most powerful.

Oh wait, they nerfed CC across the board because "that's what the playerbase wants" and this is supposed to be "good for the game."

Yeah we'll see how that turns out. Less CC = more time spent on mashing pve rotations is really how its going to turn out. I have no idea where this "let's hate CC" train of thought from the playerbase came from. It's dumb because mindless CC has been apart of this game for a long time.

The fact "mindless" CC has been part of the game so long just proves the point that it needs to go, the hate of this came from the fact that you can be endlessly CC'd which is not fun gameplay. You could roll fear > Stun > Cyclone all day on each other because they are different diminishing returns, it just gets a bit pathetic to enter an arena and be CC'd the entire time till the match is over. Now the fact that stupid Shivara pet from warlocks just sleep training you all day coupled with fear and stuns is just so damn broken that I would actually like to play my toon when I face a warlock team in arena please?

So in my eyes yes the removal of CC and DR sharing is the best thing that could happen just now in terms of PvP.

[TJ]

They should all be pre-emptive, having it otherwise just makes it mindless to play like a BM Hunter roflstomping you constantly due to having 2 breaks and a pet on you.

[Theed]

They should all be pre-emptive, having it otherwise just makes it mindless to play like a BM Hunter roflstomping you constantly due to having 2 breaks and a pet on you.

Agree. It promotes mindless playstyle aka popping cds and using ccbreaks on cooldown.

- - - Updated - - -

About Burst of Speed

@holinka:

It's energy cost was increased to 20 in the latest Warlords build.

https://twitter.com/holinka/status/494479601377095680

.. does not really solve the issue of burst of speed.

[gestapo]

https://twitter.com/holinka/status/494479601377095680

.. does not really solve the issue of burst of speed.

So much this. Hopefully it can be addressed properly.

On the matter of cc, I think it would be wise to look at it as a whole, like some posters have suggested. Given the changes classes with instant cc break talents stand to benefit too much from WoD pvp and that must change. I'm not sure what the solution is, but i'd rather have it alter the talent in some way than actually adjust resource costs/cooldowns in an attempt to balance it.

For e.g. Burst of Speed could be changed to a high energy cost root break with a cooldown instead of being a sprint (something they have) + snare removal that can be spammed. Increasing the energy to 20 will do nothing.

[Wow]

For e.g. Burst of Speed could be changed to a high energy cost root break with a cooldown

Oh so you want to change it back to what it use to be and make it worse even though no one took it when it broke roots..

Bos isn't fixable and with the fact cloak and dagger is a dead talent just redo the whole tier into a step tier and make step base and make everyone happy.

The change to 20 energy is pretty clear they don't want to kill the talent because they know no one took it at 30 energy and no one took it when it cost 60 and broke roots.

Pretty much every idea in those tweets would make it a dead talent that's why I say just redo the tier.

Edit : I see holinka confirmed what I said on the costs.

You people aren't going to get what you want unless they are willing to make it a dead talent or redo the tier.

[gestapo]

make it a dead talent or redo the tier.

It's ridiculous on live, but this is probably the best option.

[Rorke]

Not a patch on the human racial. The human racial allows every single class that plays a human to hit harder then any other race at PvP. WotF is strong yeah but it's by far not the most powerful.

Human racial is fine. More damage means nothing in the meta level of pvp. Defense always wins this game and while in the scrub brackets the human racial good for that "extra damage" it's worthless against good players.

Will of the Forsaken is literally a free defensive fear break for anyone playing undead. Fear is the most powerful CC in this game and for a race to have the ability to break it is ridiculous. I don't understand why people don't play undead Warrior/DK because when you stack Berserker Rage/Lichborne/ with Will of the Forsaken, its overpowered as hell against classes that rely on a fear.

Humans just get more damage. More damage doesn't matter when everything at top level play is optimized to the point where CC breaks are more important than damage. I'm not saying the human racial is bad, its just powerful. There's a difference between being powerful and overpowered.

The fact "mindless" CC has been part of the game so long just proves the point that it needs to go, the hate of this came from the fact that you can be endlessly CC'd which is not fun gameplay. You could roll fear > Stun > Cyclone all day on each other because they are different diminishing returns, it just gets a bit pathetic to enter an arena and be CC'd the entire time till the match is over. Now the fact that stupid Shivara pet from warlocks just sleep training you all day coupled with fear and stuns is just so damn broken that I would actually like to play my toon when I face a warlock team in arena please?

So in my eyes yes the removal of CC and DR sharing is the best thing that could happen just now in terms of PvP.

A lot of people keep wanting them to remove or nerf everything. The more you take away from the game, the less things classes can do and the smaller the skill cap is. Yeah sure some CC is mindless, but the more CC that is in the game, the more demand it requires out of people to play and communicate better. There's a reason why so many Godcomp teams suck against KFC teams at lower mmr. It's because they can't coordinate CC effectively. CC chains do equal skill.

The less CC there is, the more time people will just spend tunneling pve rotations and the less risk there is to play aggressively. This entire restructure of this games pvp ultimately benefits melee as positioning will have less of an impact in the game with less CC.