Property>Life=Violence

[Mayhem]

I think you're getting confused by the word property(or maybe the word territory?). Property is that which you own(land, goods, etc...). Territory is an area(land) that you own.

we were talking about animal territory

[Hyve]

that´s only modern societies though, which is funny, because the argument is that it´s natural while indigene people mostly have no concept of property/ownership

Indigenous tribes in parts of the world have been killing (and eating) their enemies for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

i don´t know, what? how did you come to that thought from my quote?

I've not been in the whole conversation, so not quite sure what you've said in totality, just stating that Animals do have a right to their territory because without them large sections of eco-systems could (and have / do) collapse.

[Mayhem]

Indigenous tribes in parts of the world have been killing (and eating) their enemies for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

could you please stop quoting me when you´re unwilling to follow the discussion? what has this to do with property and ownership?

I've not been in the whole conversation, so not quite sure what you've said in totality, just stating that Animals do have a right to their territory because without them large sections of eco-systems could (and have / do) collapse.

yes, animals need a place to live

[spinner981]

Sometimes property = life. Not all the time of course, but I don't think it is fair to refer to all non-living things as mere property, when many of those things are necessary to life in general and others are necessary to modern life in specific.

[Annoying]

SPOILER ALERT.......it has always been that way.

Both you and OP are right. To an extent. It has always been that way. And the world is shrinking. We just get to hear about everything now.

[brimdog]

I read the news a lot. A LOT a lot. Politico, Bloomberg, Wallstreet Journal, BBC, New York Times, Mother Jones, Forbes, WaPo, HuffPo, etc. etc.

But the point is, with all of the world's problems, I think I'm beginning to see a pattern...

The common theme is that the world is shrinking, and when people value property above life, violence ALWAYS breaks out. Gaza, Russia, oil, airplanes, human trafficking, you name it.

Do you notice this effect? Can it be fixed? Personally, I think it goes beyond abstractions like morality and statehood. I think it's human nature.

Then consider such abstractions to be, rather, phenomenon, albeit not a tangible one, in a material sense. When we think of concepts like morality we cannot constrain them to have existence only within a man made timeline.

To answer your last questions: Yes, I do, yet it is the perversion of the phenomenon we know as Dignity that causes such issues to seed within Humanity. This issue can only be broken by ending the cyclic suffering that is the perversion of dignity via experienced external variables.

[SomethingWycked]

There is no such thing as a natural right.

Humans are animals, and like the vast majority of animals with two forward-facing eyes and sharp teeth, we are predatory animals.

Violence is natural to humans. Peace, civility, and respect have been created for the social well-being of the human herd.

People who believe otherwise cry foul when one group of humans violates the peace, but they believe wrongly.

Unless an individual human is on the moral level of Ghandi or Mother Theresa, every individual human is one sufficiently stressful event away from becoming violent.

[Aeula]

It shouldn't be fixed, it's human nature doing it's work, I always value my property over those who try to steal/damage it, sadly my country has stupid laws which prevent me from protecting my property.

[Frogguh]

Wait, I thought reason and evidence proved that religion was the cause of every evil in the world? So confusing.

[Dhrizzle]

I read the news a lot. A LOT a lot. Politico, Bloomberg, Wallstreet Journal, BBC, New York Times, Mother Jones, Forbes, WaPo, HuffPo, etc. etc.

But the point is, with all of the world's problems, I think I'm beginning to see a pattern...

The common theme is that the world is shrinking, and when people value property above life, violence ALWAYS breaks out. Gaza, Russia, oil, airplanes, human trafficking, you name it.

Do you notice this effect? Can it be fixed? Personally, I think it goes beyond abstractions like morality and statehood. I think it's human nature.

Those abstractions are an extension of human nature, and human nature manifests in many ways, we're just as (if not more) likely to come together in cooperation than we are to engage in violence.