Thoughts on joining and not finishing?

[Koryn123]

I put in the effort for what would give me rewards, just Galakras, then I left.

[evansp]

When I pug normal or flex I usually stay at least till the wing I joined is complete. Im a resto shaman and want the shield off of immer so I do it on flex and normal every week so I can cry when I dont get it but I don't leave after that boss, I at least stay and finish the wing. Of course I am a healer and they are marginally harder to replace then a dps but I have no issue with leaving after a complete wing. Outside of that shield I just do flex and normal for BOA's.

[shise]

Well, sure tehy were rude, but you were looking for it m8.

First, tell everyone about your plans.
Second, don't join a group which expects you to clear just for a boss you need.

Another option is just don't make a post about this since it's obvious, you simply know what you get into when you do this.

[Denkou]

This can be a tricky topic.

As others have said, most groups expect you to stay for the duration of the run if you join, or at least the majority of it. It's perfectly understandable that sometimes things out of your control may cause you to leave early, i.e. your spouse had to stay late at work so you have to go pick up the kids instead, stuff like that. It's also not uncommon for people to leave if a group is wiping over and over and cannot seem to get past a certain encounter; leaving after one or two wipes is usually considered rude, but if the group is wiping four, five, six-plus times while making little improvement, I think most would agree that it would not be rude to leave in that case.

In your specific case, I can see why the group would be upset. You came in for one boss, which you guys killed easily with only one wipe, and then left. If you plan to only stay for one or two bosses or until a certain time, it would be a good idea to let the raid leader know when you join their group, in order to prevent things like this in the future. Unless the group says something like "SoO at Gal, doing Gal ONLY" or "Fresh SoO, first 4 bosses only", then you should expect and prepare to stay either until the end of the instance or when the raid leader calls it.

Now, in your defense, the other people in the group shouldn't have made such a big deal out of it and shouldn't have verbally attacked you as much as they did. You said that you joined via OQ and that you were 4th on DPS, which means that they can replace you easily. If you had been a tank or a healer, that may be a different story, as those roles are generally much more difficult to replace, but as a DPS, there are always a dozen waiting to take your spot.

At the end of the day, its just a game, but its also an investment of time from all raid members involved. Nobody should get too upset over it, but everyone should also try to be as respectful and considerate of how they act in a group setting. Don't sweat it too much, just try to communicate your intentions more clearly in the future.

[ThePants999]

Look, OP, it's pretty clear that whether consciously or subconsciously, you already knew that you were in the wrong. Otherwise...

I said something like "Thanks for the invite, it's getting late and I got to get to bed. Good luck, and good night all "

...you would have said something like "Thanks for the invite, that was the only boss I needed. Good luck, and good night all " But no - something in you stopped you from giving the real reason. Why might that be, do you think?

[bmjclark]

I'm a little surprised people got as mad as they did. I lead (co-lead really, myself and a guild mate lead together) pugs every week and we never get mad when people leave. It's a little frustrating if tanks or healers leave but otherwise it's really not a big deal.

[Radio]

Then they got too much free time because joining a Garrosh only run is much more time efficient.

Then they probably need to get their heads checked if they join a galakras run (or earlier) to kill garrosh with a pug.

No, that's not the point, the point is that every player joins a raid to kill a particular boss (or bosses), and since you can't always guarantee a lockout with just the boss(es) you need, you quite often have to make the sacrifice of helping other people kill bosses they want to kill in the leadup to the boss you want to kill. Whether it's Garrosh, Malkorok or even Shamans that the other raiders needed, a certain number of those 9 other raiders didn't need loot from Galakras and therefore their entire role in the OP's life was to help him have a chance at loot for no return. More jokes on them if there are people like the OP on every boss and the group ends up falling apart right before they reach their targeted boss.

No, its not, its called being efficient with your time. The run is advertized as its lockout, there is no predefined say for how many bosses you are going (assumption) and you don't know beforehand how good the group is. If there is no loot dropping for you, why bother? You cannot get more VP in this way than with HC scens, and you might already be VP capped. So in this case the group isn't going to get to the boss where this player needs loot from and hence he bails. What is wrong with that?

I haven't been playing the game while cross realm normals have been a thing with OQ supporting it, but in my experience people dropping from normal style lockouts have always made things difficult due to the further a clear you're advertising for the harder it is to find people willing and capable.

Just curious, are OQ early heroic pugs a thing yet or not?

That only reduces your chance of success.

Look I get all this "for the team" stuff if you're playing with people you know. Your guildies or friends. Sure thing. But random strangers...?!

I see it as a form of courtesy, and courtesy can also be extended to strangers. If everyone treated PuG raiding as give and take rather than just simply take maybe it'd stop feeling like such a shallow and horrible experience. It's a little naive of me considering human nature and all but it'd sure be great.

[Deleted]

I have struggled with this myself. But probably for a different reason. I'm christian and I have always seen it as not being nice to those in the group for just leaving like that. So I spent a lot of time torturing myself to stay in the raid unless several other people left too. At one point I just decided. "Screw it" and I started leaving groups when I no longer had a reason to stay in it. You don't owe anything to people you don't know. You are not obligated to stay until the end of a run. You didn't sign a contract, or make any verbal agreements to stay for the whole thing. They aren't friends, or guild mates. You join groups to get yourself gear, not gear others.

Nice cristian you are, me me me and screw all the rest. If everyone was like you pugging would be impossible with leaving people after every boss.

I hope blizzard will implement a rating system in WoD so you can see in game wich people have a tendancy to leave mid raid, so you can exclude them f4rom your pug

[Gihelle]

Wrong to leave? No, not really.

Wrong to join? Definitely.

This, pretty much.

If you're not willing to stay for the long haul you shouldn't have joined in the first place (it's understandable if the group has no hope of killing the boss, but that clearly was not the case here). Even if you're nice about, it's still a really selfish move.

[Deleted]

No, that's not the point, the point is that every player joins a raid to kill a particular boss (or bosses), and since you can't always guarantee a lockout with just the boss(es) you need, you quite often have to make the sacrifice of helping other people kill bosses they want to kill in the leadup to the boss you want to kill. Whether it's Garrosh, Malkorok or even Shamans that the other raiders needed, a certain number of those 9 other raiders didn't need loot from Galakras and therefore their entire role in the OP's life was to help him have a chance at loot for no return. More jokes on them if there are people like the OP on every boss and the group ends up falling apart right before they reach their targeted boss.

I'm really not sure what your point exactly is. If you join a pug then - for whatever reason - there ALWAYS is a chance you won't do a full clear. Anyone that has ever pugged knows this. You gonna tell me you'd stay banging your head against the wall in a pug on garrosh normal, from midnight till 4am, despite not needing anything from him, but group just sucks? If not, you have no right to claim OP is in the wrong. You have your tresholds for leaving at a certain point, so does OP. Whether your point of leaving is killing a certain boss, wiping once, or wiping for 4 hours doesn't matter. You also bailed on the moraly helping with no return (or however you want to call it). "But I helped a bit more" doesn't matter, you still bailed. There is no magical ethical number where it's okay to leave after. Everyone has their own idea of it, yours is not better or worse than the OP's.

[Deleted]

Nothing wrong with what you did. Everyone in pug groups are there for themselves only. They were only mad at you because you did it before them and made them have to wait longer to get to the boss they would have quit after.

[Radio]

I'm really not sure what your point exactly is. If you join a pug then - for whatever reason - there ALWAYS is a chance you won't do a full clear. Anyone that has ever pugged knows this. You gonna tell me you'd stay banging your head against the wall in a pug on garrosh normal, from midnight till 4am, despite not needing anything from him, but group just sucks? If not, you have no right to claim OP is in the wrong. You have your tresholds for leaving at a certain point, so does OP. Whether your point of leaving is killing a certain boss, wiping once, or wiping for 4 hours doesn't matter. You also bailed on the moraly helping with no return (or however you want to call it). "But I helped a bit more" doesn't matter, you still bailed. There is no magical ethical number where it's okay to leave after. Everyone has their own idea of it, yours is not better or worse than the OP's.

There's a giant difference between "whelp I've cleaned up what I need to do here" and "we're not getting anywhere with this anytime soon" and no sugarcoating you give it will change that.

[Citykid]

Something i was raised with is honesty...try it, instead of that standard BS u run to get a spot in a grp, be honest from the start. How about u say... i can only join for an hour and a half, if u want me im xx ilvl bla bla... then u have been fair from start.. then u join, kill the dragon, AND u stay that last hour as a good will.... leave as decided from start and all are good...

[Deleted]

There's a giant difference between "whelp I've cleaned up what I need to do here" and "we're not getting anywhere with this anytime soon" and no sugarcoating you give it will change that.

Taking the moral high ground on something you do yourself is ridiculous. "What you do is wrong! I do it too, but just a bit less, so it's fine!" that's what you sound like. And no sugarcoating will change that you do it yourself.

[Raelbo]

Apparently, that's not what everyone else thinks is the way to do things. It's wierd, since my general experience with pugs has been people quitting the group at the drop of a hat (everyone seems to do it, regardless of what raid difficulty), yet everyone here seems to think it's as bad as barbequeing a kitten.

There are two types of people in pugs: Those who make it work and those who make it fail. People who leave at the drop of a hat are the latter. Just because there are other selfish pugs who leave prematurely does not make it ok for you to follow suit. If everyone did it (as you state) then pugs would never succeed.

Yes there are times when it becomes acceptable to leave a group, but your case was clearly not one of those.

[Deleted]

Yes there are times when it becomes acceptable to leave a group, but your case was clearly not one of those.

This is incorrect. His case was clearly one of those.

[Radio]

Taking the moral high ground on something you do yourself is ridiculous. "What you do is wrong! I do it too, but just a bit less, so it's fine!" that's what you sound like. And no sugarcoating will change that you do it yourself.

But I don't do it, you're the one who brought it up, not me.

I PuG when I damn well have the time to PuG and I stick with it until other people decide "we're not getting anywhere with this anytime soon" for me.

If people give me their time I give them my time, I don't care who the fuck they are. If they don't give me their time or waste my time I have no inclination to give them my time. Simple. I do it because I don't have some kind of immediate disdain for people I do not know. I've found some great friends and guilds over the years through positive PuG experiences so I give people respect until they prove that they don't deserve it.

[Raelbo]

This is incorrect. His case was clearly one of those.

If you're a narcissistic sociopath, sure.

[Deleted]

But I don't do it, you're the one who brought it up, not me.

I PuG when I damn well have the time to PuG and I stick with it until other people decide "we're not getting anywhere with this anytime soon" for me.

If people give me their time I give them my time, I don't care who the fuck they are. If they don't give me their time or waste my time I have no inclination to give them my time. Simple. I do it because I don't have some kind of immediate disdain for people I do not know. I've found some great friends and guilds over the years through positive PuG experiences so I give people respect until they prove that they don't deserve it.

That last paragraph pretty much proves you also have a treshold for leaving. You are the person to decide when they're wasting your time, it's your opinion, and completely arbitrary. OP thinks doing bosses he needs nothing of is a waste of time. Everyone has their own view. There is no right or wrong unless you're the mother theresa of pugs and never ever leave till you're the last man standing in the instance. In which case you could call the others selfish yes.

[announced]

dps are easy to replace, its fine. but for future reference try and stay a while unless they are a super shit group. leaving after 1 boss appears kinda selfish.