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  1. #101
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gihelle View Post
    This kind of attitude is EXACTLY what perpetuates pugs being bad. People need to be more selfless and stop caring so much about loot.
    Yeah, thats how i see it too. I PuG'd a lot in Cata and many times it was over when someone left. Everyone of them traitors ended up into our blacklist, which was kept in the guild forum. When we were doing our weekly alt runs and someone from the List whispered, i told that they can find someone else's raid to leave, we don't want you.

    Oh well, at least we got the laughs in the Vent because some of them started to rage and many screenshots got shared.

  2. #102
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by fearist View Post
    pugs are pugs, they are there for your own personal use. theyre not your friend or guildies so you shouldn't treat them that way. if i was pugging i would just get in and get out honestly, sorry.
    It's not like people here are talking about treating pugs as guildies or friends is it? People are talking about having some common decency and not just drop group after 1 boss - specially since the boss died just fine. Sure if you join a pug and you wipe on all bosses I can understand, people don't wanna stay. But that's really not the case the OP is describing.

    The issue is, that pugging is hard enough already and the more jerks who pull stunts like that, the harder it will become for others imo. Cause at this point, we rarely even invite a pug, unless they're from a guild we know. People from Open Raid better be carrying their weight or we'll just kick them after the first boss etc. "Back in the day" there used to be more patience between people, that's long gone.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskymon View Post
    Yeah, thats how i see it too. I PuG'd a lot in Cata and many times it was over when someone left. Everyone of them traitors ended up into our blacklist, which was kept in the guild forum. When we were doing our weekly alt runs and someone from the List whispered, i told that they can find someone else's raid to leave, we don't want you.

    Oh well, at least we got the laughs in the Vent because some of them started to rage and many screenshots got shared.
    All you needed to do was look at his signature to know that there's no point in trying to be reasonable.


    It has nothing to do with treating them as if they're a friend and everything to do with being a decent human being.

  4. #104
    You learned something at least. To never open your mouth and wait for insults after intending to leave. Next time, just leave. You are not the random peoples friend, and you probably will never be, so it's pointless to pretend to be their friend when all you want is the trinket.

    You don't owe them an explanation or anything. They don't have to know if you are only staying for Galakras (they WILL kick you 100% of the time unless they're calling it quits after or have someone inc after you kill it).

    All they need to know, is that you are there for Galakras. It's one of the risks with pugs. People can leave at any time. People tend to leave more often as well, due to only needing specific bosses. I'm not gonna stay for a full run on my Warlock because all I need is the Dark Shaman trinket. Especially if that group has been wiping to easy mechanics (fracture of all things).

    Groups that stay together after countless wipes are either mains or people who desperately need something or very undergeared alts. You rarely see anyone not needing anything more stay for a full run after Galakras in a complete pug.


    The only thing wrong you did OP, was wait around after saying you were going to leave. It might be rude, but it's YOUR time that's being wasted. As I said earlier, you don't owe them anything. Why waste your time for potentially many hours for a group that will more than likely disband at an easy boss due to failing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zdrasti View Post
    He's telling you upfront what's going to take. It's not ninja looting. It's pirate looting! YAARRRR!!!

  5. #105
    You were a douche and you got douche treatment.

  6. #106
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiserneko View Post

    I was willing to run the whole raid with my friends, because they're my friends, and it's fun to raid with them. I was not willing to stay the whole time with a bunch of strangers when I wasn't going to get anything I needed anyway. It is pretty late, and I didn't want to wipe a bunch, racking up repair bills, and spending the next few hours raiding before I quit anyway out of tiredness.

    They asked me to wait before leaving. They went out of their way to insult me.

    (I was also a DPS, 4th place in Recount, and thus easily replaced).

    What do you think? Was I wrong?
    Let me put it like this:

    Would they have taken you into the group if they knew you would leave after Galakras? If you ran a pug, would you take someone who would tell you he would leave after the next boss since that's all that brings him rewards?

  7. #107
    Deleted
    Next time tell the group leader you only want something from Galakras and that you will leave after that. See if you get any invites.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Olafski View Post
    Next time tell the group leader you only want something from Galakras and that you will leave after that. See if you get any invites.
    And herein lies the problem. If you are honest, you won't get into the group. If you are dishonest, you will feel like a douche. If you stick around for the entire raid, which could last hours and cut into other stuff you had planned to do, you are wasting your time.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    .

    I don't see it as a problem. You are honest. You get no invites. No problem. So: Only join on a day where you can finish the raid. They helped you, you help them. It is a group effort.

    In any other situation you only use them to further your own goal. At least take the abuse like a man, you deserved it. It is not like you were superduperawesome on the boss and the other 9 guys sucked...right?
    The problem is guessing how long these raids can last. For example, I work super early hours in the morning. If, say, at 7pm a group forms that needs a Monk healer, I might want to go -- but is it a group that will wipe once on Protectors and call it, or will they wipe for 6 hours on Sha? It's not like most PUGs have a set end time. So for me, my time with the group ends when I either A) get the boss I need or B) need to go to bed. It's not really my fault if the group is still trying to get through the instance two hours later.

  10. #110
    That's PuG behavior and I don't blame you for it. If people don't like it, they're free to make note of it and not play with you again, or not PuG. That's the risk you take and getting mad about is about as silly as getting mad at the sun for coming up, IMO.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Wowalixi View Post
    The problem is guessing how long these raids can last. For example, I work super early hours in the morning. If, say, at 7pm a group forms that needs a Monk healer, I might want to go -- but is it a group that will wipe once on Protectors and call it, or will they wipe for 6 hours on Sha? It's not like most PUGs have a set end time. So for me, my time with the group ends when I either A) get the boss I need or B) need to go to bed. It's not really my fault if the group is still trying to get through the instance two hours later.
    Its not hard to communicate and tell the leader "I can stay until x o'clock."

  12. #112
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    No, that's not the point, the point is that every player joins a raid to kill a particular boss (or bosses), and since you can't always guarantee a lockout with just the boss(es) you need, you quite often have to make the sacrifice of helping other people kill bosses they want to kill in the leadup to the boss you want to kill. Whether it's Garrosh, Malkorok or even Shamans that the other raiders needed, a certain number of those 9 other raiders didn't need loot from Galakras and therefore their entire role in the OP's life was to help him have a chance at loot for no return. More jokes on them if there are people like the OP on every boss and the group ends up falling apart right before they reach their targeted boss.
    Off spec loot can be a thing, but if the tank is 550 the chance of you getting off spec loot as warrior is going to be slim. Its also, like I said, efficiency. If boss #5 drops your trinket and boss #7 drops your ring you can stick around for boss #6. If its boss #5 dropping your trinket, you already got ring from boss #7 and its boss #10 you need the ring from well then you're probably better off leaving the group and joining a group for boss #10 because the VP from the bosses isn't worth it and the rest isn't worth the effort. The PuG group can have someone who has incentive to stay and perform (you don't have either). So if you're like me on my mage alt (need either Dark Shamans or Garrosh trinket from normal and for the rest am fully normal WF or HC) you're an absolute retard if you stick around. I'm sorry for the strong words, but that is the truth in my eyes. Why though? Because you're simply wasting your time! You don't know these people, you don't owe them anything, you done your part (pulled your weight on the kill where your loot either did or did not drop) and that is where your fellowship should end. Yet you act like some kind of Good Samaritan? What for exactly? From boss #7 to boss #13 is going to take you at least one hour in a PuG and probably a lot more. Why would you not join a Garrosh run instead? Preferably one with the trash dead, waiting for your imba pewpew? Because don't get me wrong here I'm not suggesting we should slack on the meters; on the contrary!

    I haven't been playing the game while cross realm normals have been a thing with OQ supporting it, but in my experience people dropping from normal style lockouts have always made things difficult due to the further a clear you're advertising for the harder it is to find people willing and capable.

    Just curious, are OQ early heroic pugs a thing yet or not?
    I made some usage of OQ whilst PuGing HCs, yes. People leaving sucks (people joining not knowing what for, or being saved is also disappointing though), you stand there doing nothing but then you start doing something useful in your time. You can clean your entire house or apartment whilst waiting, regularly checking back if group is filled or having readycheck loud on speakers. RL, sure, he can slack less and that is part of being RL. I can tell you one thing which is worse than people leaving btw: people who are shit AND don't improve. They're wasting your time even more than people leaving causing you to fill.

    I see it as a form of courtesy, and courtesy can also be extended to strangers. If everyone treated PuG raiding as give and take rather than just simply take maybe it'd stop feeling like such a shallow and horrible experience. It's a little naive of me considering human nature and all but it'd sure be great.
    Possibly true, but since you don't likely see them again (PuGs being x-realm these days) I don't think so. I see this as a huge disadvantage of x-realm SoO though, or even x-realm WoW in general.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chuachua View Post
    It's really amusing how people doing normals always care so much about gear. The essence of raiding isn't gear, it's playing around with mechanics and maximizing with what you have. Outgearing stuff becomes really boring after awhile. Farming heroic garry isn't as fun as doing heroic alt runs with undergeared toons!
    You can make farming hc garry, or anything you outgear for that matter, a lot of fun with padding/ranking or selling loot/mount/kill.

  13. #113
    Deleted
    You used other people to your own advantage and ditched them when they needed you the most.
    I'm so proud of you my son! Your training is complete, there's nothing more I can teach you.

  14. #114
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aladya View Post
    Let me put it like this:

    Would they have taken you into the group if they knew you would leave after Galakras? If you ran a pug, would you take someone who would tell you he would leave after the next boss since that's all that brings him rewards?
    Would people take you in their PuG if they knew how you smelled, that you have an odd sexual preference for bald old men? You keep things before you because if people know the details, it can only harm their viewpoint about you.

    Here's another thought experiment for you. Say you are a 570 ilvl warrior DPS who needs Galakras trinket, and only that. You know the RL, he's a buddy of yours. He knows you only need that. Would he invite you? He probably would because he knows people are hunting for that trinket. After kill, you probably would stick around to help him out if not only for a few bosses (a full run is a bit over the top as returning favor I'd say). You see what I did there? The lack of anonymity and the existence of a social bond causes this behavior. There is little to none in a PuG and you certainly can't enforce people to change that. It has to occur naturally. You don't make friends, you don't buy friends, you become friends due to events.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    They helped you, you help them. It is a group effort.
    On a kill by kill basis. Boss dies, loot is reward, want to stay or not?

    You know what though? Maybe stop doing content whilst overgeared? If you only need one item from one boss, you shouldn't get invited. The RL needs to know you only come for one boss based on your gear. Don't invite the person if you don't want them to leave after 1 boss. If the person can't get in, he'll have to find HC raid. But that isn't what you RLs do. No, no. You want me to carry your sorry ass, letting me do 30% of all the damage on a boss fight like Dark Shamans (and then giving trinket to the shitter who died 1 minute into the fight). You get what you want: a boost. I get what I want: a chance for my trinket. After that, we split ways, maybe you can find someone to carry you on the next boss.

  15. #115
    This topic reminds me of the ToC days with all the melee leaving at twins and leaving the casters in the dust. I personally hate this type of behavior as a person who was a caster during ToC. Now if someone did this in my raid without previously telling me then I'd be annoyed but I wouldn't lash out. I can also understand not wanting to tell the group because it pretty much reduces your chances of being invited to zero. The way I see it is that most of the time no one wins in this scenario.

    It's really amusing how people doing normals always care so much about gear. The essence of raiding isn't gear, it's playing around with mechanics and maximizing with what you have. Outgearing stuff becomes really boring after awhile. Farming heroic garry isn't as fun as doing heroic alt runs with undergeared toons!
    Everybody enjoys things differently.
    Last edited by Aruhen; 2014-08-03 at 08:47 AM.

  16. #116
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aruhen View Post
    This topic reminds me of the ToC days with all the melee leaving at twins and leaving the casters in the dust. I personally hate this type of behavior as a person who was a caster during ToC. Now if someone did this in my raid without previously telling me then I'd be annoyed but I wouldn't lash out. I can also understand not wanting to tell the group because it pretty much reduces your chances of being invited to zero. The way I see it is that most of the time no one wins in this scenario.


    Everybody enjoys things differently.
    Nifty solution: add heirlooms to the last boss, or make the last boss drop all the trinkets, or make it drop a mount, or make it drop weapons, or make it drop a tier token joker. Oh wait, those have all been done in previous tiers.

  17. #117
    If you let the raid leader know before joining that you'll be leaving after a particular boss, it's fine. If you don't say anything about leaving or time constraints, it's basically implying you intend to try to finish and misleading people to get in then bailing after you get what you want is a complete dick move.

    The further in siege you are, the harder it is to find replacements (this is a hundred times more true for heroic) up until the final boss himself. When you bail the group has to take time to replace you and it can take longer to get someone in there because theres a good chance theres loot on some bosses you've already killed that they would like a shot at getting.

    Pure selfishness like that is pretty shitty.

    If you're too much of a coward to even tell them in advance that you are leaving after a particular boss because you are afraid of not being invited... Well that should kind of clue you in to the fact it's a major inconvenience for the entire raid for you to do that kind of shit.
    Last edited by Dasani; 2014-08-03 at 10:02 AM.
    I like ponies and I really don't care what you have to say about that.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    Pure selfishness like that is pretty shitty.

    I
    its a pug - decent dose of selfishness is healthy - peopel get burned out a lot cause they feel obliged to do stuff for other people in game - people get angry cause they sometimes end up playing with players below their skill lv effectively boosting scrubs and this game is not meant to be charity - if someone wants charity go and buy boost run for gold dont expect other usually very good players to carry u - they may help u with 1 boss or 2 if they have the same goal as u but u cant expect them to carry people through whole raid just cause somebody invited them.

    and most of those white knight saying op is shit - how many times u lied too your guildies that u dont have time to do something when in fact u thought - omg cba to deal with scrubs to help him.

  19. #119
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aladya View Post
    Let me put it like this:

    Would they have taken you into the group if they knew you would leave after Galakras? If you ran a pug, would you take someone who would tell you he would leave after the next boss since that's all that brings him rewards?
    I was in a pug yesterday and i told the upfront at which time i had to leave, so they have a choise. And after we did thok i left because it was my time, wished i could have stayed longer though. Was quite a nice pug group.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    ill.

    Possibly true, but since you don't likely see them again (PuGs being x-realm these days) I don't think so. I see this as a huge disadvantage of x-realm SoO though, or even x-realm WoW in general.
    current tier normal and hc should have never been x-realm in first place - only reaon why they implemented it was caue they kinew how long this tier gonna stick around - a lot of pugging problem comes from that . if it was server specific people in pugs would behave much better and try to perform much harder - yes there would be a lot less pugs but the pugs which were foinf in t14 and t15 were much much better quality - and i put quality over quantity any time - ony mode for x realm should be lfr and flex as they are the most casual modes. normal was never target to casual audience and it never should be.

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