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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    ill.

    Possibly true, but since you don't likely see them again (PuGs being x-realm these days) I don't think so. I see this as a huge disadvantage of x-realm SoO though, or even x-realm WoW in general.
    current tier normal and hc should have never been x-realm in first place - only reaon why they implemented it was caue they kinew how long this tier gonna stick around - a lot of pugging problem comes from that . if it was server specific people in pugs would behave much better and try to perform much harder - yes there would be a lot less pugs but the pugs which were foinf in t14 and t15 were much much better quality - and i put quality over quantity any time - ony mode for x realm should be lfr and flex as they are the most casual modes. normal was never target to casual audience and it never should be.

  2. #122
    People are getting way to upset over leaving after 1 boss. Prior to me doing heroic's on my alt with pug groups, when i still needed normals, people use to come and go just about every boss. Had quick, solid groups and same thing, had crap groups and people would leave even faster. Face facts, pugs generally break apart anyhow after 1 wipe, hell, I was in some 25 man pug on another alt i have that and we get to sha, the one boss i actually needed and the raidlead, gives the dumbest strat i ever seen and of course, we wipe!!! So 75% of the raid leave and im stuck with this crappy lockout that 99% of pugs dont get stuck on, cause the raidlead was a complete tard.

    My point is, who cares?? People come and go all the time in pug grp's. In lfr/flex/normal, i could care less about who comes and goes every boss. Now when im in a heroic pug or some guild group, people don't generally leave unless the grp is complete crap or it's the end of the run. I don't get why so many people are butt hurt over it, don't even tell me that none of you have ever left or people have not come and gone in a normal pug grp? Give the guy a break/ Op, you stated the grp was bad anyhow, i personally would have left if i felt, i would be there forever and no chance of killing garrosh anyhow.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    The further in siege you are, the harder it is to find replacements (this is a hundred times more true for heroic) up until the final boss himself.
    This is not true at all. I have alts I happily join with on a later boss, I got alts which don't need anything or barely need anything from the first bosses. Yes, even on HC.

    When you bail the group has to take time to replace you and it can take longer to get someone in there because theres a good chance theres loot on some bosses you've already killed that they would like a shot at getting.
    There's also a good chance they don't give a shit about that loot (talk about loot whores ehh!), and those players are usually geared quite well, which means the fight goes likely easier.

    Pure selfishness like that is pretty shitty.

    If you're too much of a coward to even tell them in advance that you are leaving after a particular boss because you are afraid of not being invited... Well that should kind of clue you in to the fact it's a major inconvenience for the entire raid for you to do that kind of shit.
    Its not coward, it is selfish yes, its also strategic. Welcome to the world of PuGing! First thing I do when I join a PuG is see what loot others are competing on with the stuff I deeply want myself. If I wanna do some kind of teamwork I join a regular PuG, guild group, or something like that. PuG is my selfish outlet where I can pad, rank, and be a lootwhore. You won't see me do it in our guild runs.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  4. #124
    Interesting. When I gave up on raiding it was because the "I won't bail on my friends, but a bunch of strangers don't matter" attitude was the accepted norm. From the first page, it looks like WoW's experienced a cultural shift since I left.

    I should mention OP: It's one thing to leave because a group's chain wiping on a boss. Especially since that does tend to push raids later than expected. Your group wiped once and you left without even trying Garrosh with the excuse that the group might chain wipe. You never intended to stay with them. That's the difference.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Its not hard to communicate and tell the leader "I can stay until x o'clock."
    And then I don't get invited and don't get a chance at my trinket that week off Sha? How is that fair to me?

    Besides that saying I will stay until X'o'clock puts me in a tough bind. I'm not a kid, my bedtime isn't "set." If the group is going good I might be willing to stay up an extra half hour to help them finish the run. But if the run is going poorly, say they wipe on Galakras 5 times, am I then expected to stay until the time I gave?

    I already raid on a schedule 3 nights a week, I'm not about to raid on a schedule on my nights off.

  6. #126
    The Lightbringer Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiserneko View Post
    Mmk. I guess I'm the only one who would rather not waste hours and hours wiping and getting nothing in return.
    See, if you did it and accepted that doing it made you an asshole/dick at the time, I can at least understand that. I'm sure I've done it before.

    But you are refusing to see why people would get upset that you would take advantage of their already being on the boss, having a group already, and taking you, and than you leave.

    You were an asshole. I'd call you names too.

    Now, if you are going in with them understanding it's only for the one fight, that's different. If they want to take you and find someone later, ok. If it's a bad group that can't do the next fights and you don't want to waste time, ok. If you are carrying them and they are bad, ok.

    But if you take advantage of them, fuck you you are an asshole would be my response.

  7. #127
    Herald of the Titans RoKPaNda's Avatar
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    It's the internet. People get horribly offended over things they wouldn't ordinarily get offended by. You didn't really do anything wrong. You left after a boss in a pug, it happens in almost every run.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Wowalixi View Post
    And then I don't get invited and don't get a chance at my trinket that week off Sha? How is that fair to me?

    Besides that saying I will stay until X'o'clock puts me in a tough bind. I'm not a kid, my bedtime isn't "set." If the group is going good I might be willing to stay up an extra half hour to help them finish the run. But if the run is going poorly, say they wipe on Galakras 5 times, am I then expected to stay until the time I gave?

    I already raid on a schedule 3 nights a week, I'm not about to raid on a schedule on my nights off.
    You are not a kid, so you can control your sleep schedule, too. No one is telling you (or anyone else) to set a schedule just for PuG. However, be courteous, the other 9 are players, too. Take your controllable factor into account. If you have to leave before the run finish because of something out of your control (i.e: the raid perform terribly, emergency stuffs, etc.), it can't be helped. But it wasn't the case here.
    For example, I usually sleep at 1AM, so if I ever pug, I wouldn't join fresh one that starts at 0:00AM, or even 11:30PM for that, unless the PuG stated they'd only go for certain bosses.

    I don't want to start a old-community-vs-new-community fight, but... is it how the community is now? I haven't PuG'd (in its true meaning, as in completely random pick up group) since TBC. However, back then, there are very few cases of someone leaving mid dungeon / mid raid without an acceptable excuse. My guild leader even told us to be extra courteous to non-guild members or risk getting gkicked, as our actions would reflect on ourselves and the guild's image. Surprised me that so many people are agree with the "it's PuG" excuse now. Is personal / guild's image no longer that important?

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Qualia View Post
    You are not a kid, so you can control your sleep schedule, too. No one is telling you (or anyone else) to set a schedule just for PuG. However, be courteous, the other 9 are players, too. Take your controllable factor into account. If you have to leave before the run finish because of something out of your control (i.e: the raid perform terribly, emergency stuffs, etc.), it can't be helped. But it wasn't the case here.
    For example, I usually sleep at 1AM, so if I ever pug, I wouldn't join fresh one that starts at 0:00AM, or even 11:30PM for that, unless the PuG stated they'd only go for certain bosses.
    But, as I said, I'm not a kid so I am capable of surviving at work with less than an optimal amount of sleep if I find a PUG that is just crazy amounts of fun. There's also a wide disparity between how long some PUGs take to finish a raid. Some can take 3 hours, some can take 4 or 5 and never even finish clearing the place. So that's why I ask, how can I make a decision on whether I have time or not to go with this group when the parameters surrounding the question are so wildly variable?

    I don't want to start a old-community-vs-new-community fight, but... is it how the community is now? I haven't PuG'd (in its true meaning, as in completely random pick up group) since TBC. However, back then, there are very few cases of someone leaving mid dungeon / mid raid without an acceptable excuse. My guild leader even told us to be extra courteous to non-guild members or risk getting gkicked, as our actions would reflect on ourselves and the guild's image. Surprised me that so many people are agree with the "it's PuG" excuse now. Is personal / guild's image no longer that important?
    I think it's more to do with the fact that people in TBC needed whole instances more than now. PUGging was a lot less common than it is now. You didn't find a PUG that would go into Black Temple when it was current content; most PUGs were doing Karazhan or maybe, maybe Gruul's Lair at that point. Not only that, but epics weren't available in an LFR or an easily attained format on your own time; you had to deal with the group that got through Karazhan because it would probably be your only hope for loot not only that week, but maybe even future week. (If it was one of the few good PUGs that went on your server).

    Players also used to join PUGs with the intention of contributing to the group. Back then, your tanks knew what to do in a fight, your healers knew what to do (maybe even a good one could handle assigning basic healer roles). I'm not saying everyone was a good player, but you could be reassured that the other players in your group were at least as eager or hopeful as you were. Now it seems like a lot of players just hit the minimum ilvl requirement the group leader is asking for and go running into the instance without an idea of what to do, even if they've killed the bosses before.

  10. #130
    Moderator Wilderness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wowalixi View Post
    But, as I said, I'm not a kid so I am capable of surviving at work with less than an optimal amount of sleep if I find a PUG that is just crazy amounts of fun. There's also a wide disparity between how long some PUGs take to finish a raid. Some can take 3 hours, some can take 4 or 5 and never even finish clearing the place. So that's why I ask, how can I make a decision on whether I have time or not to go with this group when the parameters surrounding the question are so wildly variable?
    You just have to decide how much time you're willing to invest each time you join a PUG. There is no magical line - for me, I wouldn't bother looking for a group if I had less than an hour to an hour and a half. That's plenty of time to do several bosses if things are going decently well, and if a group runs into a wall I'll give it several attempts and try to get things going before parting ways. Everyone has their limit and idea as to how much time you should dedicate to a group if you're joining, and you just have to make a decision for yourself. Its not rocket science, but you have to be aware that your decision impacts other people, and if they don't like it (such as joining for 1 boss and bailing) then you're going to piss them off.
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