Why does Blizzard still allow Master Looter in pugs?

[Bloodninja]

Just did SoO norm 1 and the master looter ninja'd my chest after he lost the roll. Blizz has made it abundantly clear they do not help with ML issues. This is essentially a license to steal and ever since cross-realm raiding it has gotten worse. I don't even care about the item, I just want that kid to have to face some kind of punishment for being a douche. Why do they allow ML in pugs still?


Mod Edit: Removed the image. We do not allow naming/shaming. You are welcome to repost it if you black out the names.

[sargior]

Thats very unfortunate and I know exactly how you feel with ninjas. But it is your own choice to enter a raid with the loot rules set as ML, you don't have a gun put to your head forcing you to join these groups.

With ML you do have less chance of a Ninja though. Because you only have 1 person that will do the Ninja instead of potential of 9.

Also I have raid lead and pugged about 6 SoO runs myself and I had repeat attendee's because of my fair loot system. Still crying I didnt win that warforged trinket although he won the roll fare and square and he won the item.

You need to just make sure you don't group with this guy again. I wouldn't go around yelling that hes a ninja and just move on.

Once again sorry buddy.

[Amak]

And how would Blizzard know you in a pug rather than just an organised run?

[Pivotpony]

Did he state any loot rules before the raid? I think that if he says nothing is reserved, or all loot is FFA, doing what he did will make him lose the item if you make a ticket.

[IRunSoFarAway]

There aren't really any specific rules for if it's a pug or not when it comes to stuff like that. I think if he/they clearly stated the rules, and clearly broke them, it's possible that Blizzard will help. Might as well try and submit a ticket, if that's the case, doesn't hurt to try.

Not the first asshole, certainly won't be the last. Just put him and any of his buddies on ignore and call it a day.

[Deleted]

OP is obviously hurt over something. Nonetheless the rule still counts: did he advertise the looting rules other than he implemented them? Make a ticket and move on.

[Sam the Wiser]

Mods are going to make you censor their names.

[sargior]

I did an armoury search on the guy. That was his first time through there on that character and he is pretty badly geared. Would have been a struggle to keep him up on the next boss. Either way the guy was finished then and wouldn't be progressing. He is on the same realm as you so just ignore him.

Also he is probably just pissed off you joined at Norushen and wernt there since the start of the raid.

[Araxie]

OP is obviously hurt over something. Nonetheless the rule still counts: did he advertise the looting rules other than he implemented them? Make a ticket and move on.

Yeah, no shit. I'm sure the majority of players in the same situation would be too. It's true all you can do is make a ticket and "move on" but what's the point? It takes time out of the player's time and time out of the employees time, and will probably end up solving nothing. Instead of saying "if this happens, just make a ticket, wait for (What seems like an eternity) a while, and we will help you. Please explain what happened, I'll take time to do some research, and probably solve nothing" Yeah, that's not a solution. Just remove it in the first place or implement a fix and we'll never have to deal with it again. I certainly don't have the answer, but then again, I'm one man. Blizzard is an entire, multi-million dollar, company. They can think of something if they really want to.

[Sunius]

So the raid leader could specify his own looting rules? That's the whole point of the master loot.

When you join a pug, you agree to whatever rules the raid leader specifies. It's his raid, and it's only fair that he's in control. Just because you assume that all loot should be available for everyone to roll freely, it doesn't mean that it's the way it really works in Warcraft.

I agree that the raid leader was a douche for ninjaing, but I wouldn't blame Master Loot method, as you implicitly agreed to it when you joined the PUG. Next time, make the raid leader specify the rules clearly, as changing them after boss kill is considered scamming by blizzard, and is a bannable offense.

Just remove it in the first place or implement a fix and we'll never have to deal with it again.

There's nothing to fix. Master loot is a valid loot method whether you like it or not.

[Vargur]

Join a guild.

[ablib]

What does Blizzard do if you ninja? I mean legitimately ninja? Not fake ninjaing when someone clicks need on something they don't need. I mean Blizzard's definition of ninjaing based on their rules here:

https://us.battle.net/support/en/art...zzard-s-stance

I've always wanted to set up a sting, where I clearly display the loot rules, set it to Master Looter, then do what the douchbag did in the screenshot above. Then have someone in the raid report me so I can see what happens.

The piece of gear may get taken away. If there is anything more than that, I'm willing to bet that it's a minor slap on the wrist.

The best way to police the community is to just go gestapo. I was floored when I heard a 3 hour ban was a real thing. First offenses for minor behavior should be 3 days. Not 3 hours. If someone knew that the penalty for ninjaing loot was a 2 week ban, I guarantee ninjaing would be so rare, people wouldn't even know what it means.

Until Blizzard gets serious about punishments, it's very clear where they stand on other players breaking code of conduct rules.

[Deleted]

Yeah, no shit. I'm sure the majority of players in the same situation would be too. It's true all you can do is make a ticket and "move on" but what's the point? It takes time out of the player's time and time out of the employees time, and will probably end up solving nothing. Instead of saying "if this happens, just make a ticket, wait for (What seems like an eternity) a while, and we will help you. Please explain what happened, I'll take time to do some research, and probably solve nothing" Yeah, that's not a solution. Just remove it in the first place or implement a fix and we'll never have to deal with it again. I certainly don't have the answer, but then again, I'm one man. Blizzard is an entire, multi-million dollar, company. They can think of something if they really want to.

they've thought of several methods and the only fair way is removing human interaction (personal loot) but this doesn't work when there's a cap on loot since if you win something you don't need someone else has missed out

Masterlooter works its just when dishonest people get a hold of it things go wrong. What blizz needs to do is start clamping down on these people make some kind of disclaimer that a masterlooter must agree to so as when enough raid members complain (not just one idiot warlock who doesn't understand why his roll on spirit gear has been ignored and starting calling peoples ninjas)

[zoefschildpad]

Did you actually make a ticket? I would say "[item] roll ms" qualifies as clear loot rules that are broken.

[Deleted]

Just did SoO norm 1

There is no SoO norm 1, but I'll refer to this later.

and the master looter ninja'd my chest after he lost the roll. Blizz has made it abundantly clear they do not help with ML issues.

Yes, they do, AND they have to deal with stupid people who didn't ask for the loot rules before the run started cause it takes up time from the customer support team.

This is essentially a license to steal and ever since cross-realm raiding it has gotten worse. I don't even care about the item, I just want that kid to have to face some kind of punishment for being a douche.

No, you don't, you want to name and shame. If you wanted the kid to be punished you would've been one step ahead and would've asked for the loot rules.

Why do they allow ML in pugs still?

Why do people still whine when they got the tools at their hands to ask for loot rules? Perhaps just stick to SoO flex 1 instead?

Screencap of what happened (I'm Shamike):

Naming and shaming is not allowed here.

[The Kao]

The thing is, not every group is a PUG in the sense of, everyone wants all loot he could use and is extremely envious of everyone else who gets purples. Even using a tool to assemble members doesn't imply it's a PUG. It may just be a group of friends that want to have loot the normal way since they usually don't have such drama, plus maybe a random or two to fill the group up.

Here's what Blizzard supposes you do. When you join a group you kindly say hello to people. Either before or directly after that you ask what the loot rules are if you're really so worried about that, and if they're worth going with they'll tell you and it'll be fair. And yes, even Master Loot were you'll pass after you got the first piece until everyone else also got something is indeed fair. Remember fair means not only fair to you but also to everyone else, and you can't defeat the bosses without the others, now can you? And even then you might still get much less with personal loot, or you're lucky and nobody but you needs items anyway.
In the case that it's not fair (to you) you can leave, but remember, most of the group has probably agreed to the rule set already and are fine with it. I mean, you can't force them to alter the rules for one single person anyway so why bother? Now it's not Blizzard's fault if you go in and don't ask when you're supposed to do so.

What does Blizzard do if you ninja? I mean legitimately ninja? Not fake ninjaing when someone clicks need on something they don't need. I mean Blizzard's definition of ninjaing based on their rules here:

Generally they don't do a thing. They can't since the risk of making the situation even more unfair is too great. Blizzard GMs today tell you outright that you had to inform yourself what the rules are, that you can leave anytime if you don't like them, and that your screenshots are no evidence. In a very severe case where the whole group starts reporting the same player over the same repeated issue they might in rare cases review the logs and take action, but that hardly ever happens. And that's so because the game generally doesn't let anyone act outside of its rules, and as such any action that isn't clearly abusive of these rules is already justified.

Naming and shaming is not allowed here.

On a side note, we need to get rid of this, in general. As long as people can hide behind the shroud of anonymity they don't fear consequences, and thus feel encouraged to act as they please, which might work for those few who still have a moral code but, quite frankly, for most people that "enjoyed" massive online communities like those of MMOs over an extended period of time it doesn't even begin to work.

[timeurg]

There is a window informing you of Loot rules already. Why not turn it into a vote window? In pugs most people would vote on spec loot, in organized raids raiders would vote ML upon entering the instance.

[roahn the warlock]

Report the player and they will still lose the item.

However, greed also makes it so players can need for offspec shit, and no one wants that either

[Deleted]

Voting is dumb because the individual player will chose what he wants and if he doesn't get it it'll fall apart. Join groups based on what they advertise. Don't join groups that advertises stupidity.

[Lochton]

Many seem to dislike but as it is normally put to, it is their raid so their rules.

Some raids has ML to avoid greedy people, some has GL to avoid complete ninjas.

All in the end, it's not called "allow ML in pugs" it is called personal choice for the guy making the group. You have the choice of joining and accepting those rules, or declining and leave.