[Druid] How is Resto feeling in WoD currently?

[Floopa]

as affiniti said, these changes just stopped you stacking resto druids in mythic (which would've happened had nothing changed).

both germination + rampant growth needed nerfs, they were far too strong (as lvl 100 talents) compared to other lvl 100 talents from other healing specs.

rejuv/renew both needed nerfs because an instant, spammable (cheap, 0 cd), high hps/hpm heal is broken in a world where blizzard wants healers to deal with damage over time, rather than instantly.

but really let me ask, are any resto druids actually surprised they got nerfed? lol

the only shocking thing i can see is that tranquility is still god tier compared to every other raid CD. if i had my way i would make tranq unaffected by +% healing bonuses (hotw, harmony, etc): i say this because in mythic raid testing i was able to achieve 42% mastery, which means on top of hotw my tranq was healing for an additional 77%~. that's completely nuts.

[stormgust]

Of course they lose out on something every single time, I really don't even get your point with that. Do you really think that Rejuvenation should be more mana efficient AoE than an actual AoE spell? And just why should Rejuvenation be enough in Mythic if you're in raidheal duty? You use what you need to, you aren't even supposed to keep Rejuvenations ticking
when the team isn't currently requiring AoE healing and Wild Mushroom is amazing for slow regen.

If you go by definition of AoE spell, that's WG, which happens to be on a 10s cooldown. Unless you want one spell to achieve everything other classes have to use several spells for, you need to throw additional option into the pot - up to now that's always been rejuvenation. It won't be after the recent nerf, if wg+reju is not enough hps to counter per-target damage on mythic (which I presume will happen) - we'll have to resort to "true" single target heals for raidhealing (cover a significantly lower fraction of the raid, are more expensive).

both germination + rampant growth needed nerfs, they were far too strong (as lvl 100 talents) compared to other lvl 100 talents from other healing specs.

Which other class has a level 100 talent, that offers virtually 0 benefit of it's own (for PvE)?. I'd like to get some insight here.

rejuv/renew both needed nerfs because an instant, spammable (cheap, 0 cd), high hps/hpm heal is broken in a world where blizzard wants healers to deal with damage over time, rather than instantly.

but really let me ask, are any resto druids actually surprised they got nerfed? lol

There's a difference between well thought out nerf, and more or less removing any choice we've had left whatsoever.
They managed to turn a talent virtually useless on it's own, while simultaneously turning it into being required due to the weird interaction it has with a prior talent (FYI, that spec, while relying on a severly limited toolkit, yields similar numbers to reju/wg prior to the nerf).

Honestly, if you can't see a difference between reasonable nerfs, and complete nonsenical nerfs, just stop posting (or return to themistweaver board, it's not if any other healing class still wants you on their boards)

[Sanctifico]

Not surprised to see the nerf as Floopa said, seeing how OP they were in Beta I never expected them to go live as-is (or was). A nerf was needed and that's coming from a current Resto Druid. I wish I could play around on the Beta, limited bandwidth ftl. Have an invite, and can't even download it lol. Rural internet ftl

[Deleted]

I love how the fact that 2 back-to-back nerfs to Germination still make it by far the best talent for PvP druids (3v3 arena). It also makes me wonder whether we should glyph regrowth....since purging will be stronger in WoD (due the reductions on buffs provided by several classes), I kinda like the idea of only having LB on the player I'm healing: this determines that there's a high chance LB will be dispelled instead (giving the target yet another heal, which is great since LB was combined to be 1 stack), and even if they purge my rejus (unlikely since all I need is 1 gcd to get SM off), I should at least get one SotF off that will grant me a empowered Regrowth that most likely will crit. I think this combo is most likely our biggest single-target burst.

The only negative thing regarding rdruids I can find is that we're gonna be exactly the same for another 3 years...I wanted some new ability or change that made me switch my talents, and right now it's more of the same, since our lvl100 talents don't feel like nothing shiny-new.

Not surprised to see the nerf as Floopa said, seeing how OP they were in Beta I never expected them to go live as-is (or was). A nerf was needed and that's coming from a current Resto Druid. I wish I could play around on the Beta, limited bandwidth ftl. Have an invite, and can't even download it lol. Rural internet ftl

Ask a friend to download it and then store the game in a usb pen? Better than not playing :P

[bclumas]

I love how the fact that 2 back-to-back nerfs to Germination still make it by far the best talent for PvP druids (3v3 arena). It also makes me wonder whether we should glyph regrowth....since purging will be stronger in WoD (due the reductions on buffs provided by several classes), I kinda like the idea of only having LB on the player I'm healing: this determines that there's a high chance LB will be dispelled instead (giving the target yet another heal, which is great since LB was combined to be 1 stack), and even if they purge my rejus (unlikely since all I need is 1 gcd to get SM off), I should at least get one SotF off that will grant me a empowered Regrowth that most likely will crit. I think this combo is most likely our biggest single-target burst.

The only negative thing regarding rdruids I can find is that we're gonna be exactly the same for another 3 years...I wanted some new ability or change that made me switch my talents, and right now it's more of the same, since our lvl100 talents don't feel like nothing shiny-new.



Ask a friend to download it and then store the game in a usb pen? Better than not playing :P

I won't be using the Regrowth glyph. Glyph of Stampeding Roar is fantastic. Glyph of Wild Growth will be good for raiding. The other choice will be Glyph of Healing Touch or Glyph of Rebirth depending on the other talents I am using. An unglyphed Regrowth works very well with a Rampant Growth build, as it is the primary HoT that you will be removing in order to maintain strong Wild Growth heals.

- - - Updated - - -

From the front page:

Force of Nature now heals for 327.3% of Spell Power, up from 66.1% of Spell Power.

... What? I will have to play around this now. It sounds like it might be a good option for small groups (i.e., Challenge Modes).

[Bareno]

I won't be using the Regrowth glyph. Glyph of Stampeding Roar is fantastic. Glyph of Wild Growth will be good for raiding. The other choice will be Glyph of Healing Touch or Glyph of Rebirth depending on the other talents I am using. An unglyphed Regrowth works very well with a Rampant Growth build, as it is the primary HoT that you will be removing in order to maintain strong Wild Growth heals.

- - - Updated - - -

From the front page:



... What? I will have to play around this now. It sounds like it might be a good option for small groups (i.e., Challenge Modes).

Played around on a 615 scaled resto druid in heroics, FoN was ~30% of my healing on average, they really over buffed it. My healing touch heals for like ~28k, and my treants was healing for ~25k.

[Deleted]

Assuming FoN Treants cast HT at the same speed that we do, there should be a haste soft cap at about 1100. The treants then cast a 7th HT, increasing their power by ~13%. But even with less haste (tried it with 900) they sometimes cast a 7th HT anyway. Maybe this is intentional to avoid haste caps, maybe it's lag related. I couldn't find any pattern.

After nerfs, FoN seems to be the strongest talent. I always liked it because of its flexibility, now they also do a lot of hps. Ignoring rotational complexity and the lost HoT from swiftmending, SotF+WG is about 7k hps over normal WG averaged over 10 secs. Treants do on average 9.7 k hps raidbuffed in mastery focused gear (assuming 6 HT casts consistently), or even 11k once you reach the haste cap. Hpm looks even worse because of Rampant Growth nerf. You could use SotF for other spells (e.g. in combination with Regrowth) but this is no longer good hpm, only hps. Depends on the fight and healing setup, mostly regarding tank heal. When trying to optimize 4pc T17, the opportunities to do that will be rare anyway. A comparison in burst hps (e.g. 2 or 3 Treants at once) with ToL might still be interesting for certain fights.

The question then is, which other talent to choose?
Lvl90: No really good choices here. Neither Treants, nor WG benefit from NV. It will probably still be best, at least when the tank needs healing. HotW is as situational as ever.
Lvl100: No good choices either. Rampant Growth is completely useless, Germination mostly useless because we won't be using Rejuv nearly as much. I still don't like MoC because it restricts the timing of free casts, maybe you can get used to it.

[Deleted]

I won't be using the Regrowth glyph. Glyph of Stampeding Roar is fantastic. Glyph of Wild Growth will be good for raiding. The other choice will be Glyph of Healing Touch or Glyph of Rebirth depending on the other talents I am using. An unglyphed Regrowth works very well with a Rampant Growth build, as it is the primary HoT that you will be removing in order to maintain strong Wild Growth heals.

- - - Updated - - -

From the front page:



... What? I will have to play around this now. It sounds like it might be a good option for small groups (i.e., Challenge Modes).

Actually its:
Force of Nature now heals for 66.1% of Spell Power, up from 22%.
On Beta its still 22% afaik. Pls correct me if I'm wrong.

[Deleted]

Actually its:
Force of Nature now heals for 66.1% of Spell Power, up from 22%.
On Beta its still 22% afaik. Pls correct me if I'm wrong.

Read the front page, There was a second buff. They do 327% on beta.

[heavenscalamity]

What are people using as their stat priority in beta right now? Also, everyone running Ysera's for the lvl 30 talent?

Thanks.

[Deleted]

I feel even stronger healing with treants...I really like this change (finally some love to this talent for resto), but this reminds me of all the QQ regarding rshamans healing stream...talents in which something else is doing the healing for you should never be this strong, it makes it extremely frustrating to kill something in the rdruid's team since despite CC there is still a noticeable amount of healing being done.

Nerf it! Please don't nerf it! Nerf it! Please don't nerf it! Nerf it! Please don't nerf it!....(halp!)

[Floopa]

the treants will get nerfed tbh

expect it to get cut from 327% to 160% imo

no talent should be 30% of your healing, that's just silly - especially when you dont have to manage it. remember divine star?

[stormgust]

expect it to get cut from 327% to 160% imo

160% is slightly to low I'd say, that would have them equal to SotF in terms of additional HPS under optimal conditions - but they're not really smart, cast a relatively slow direct heal, whence run a higher risk of overheal/"wasted heal". Should be around 200-220% for HT, 230-250% for the swiftmend (depending on how you value the charge mechanic).

no talent should be 30% of your healing, that's just silly - especially when you dont have to manage it. remember divine star?

Exaggeration paired with and entirely nonsensical comparision, as expected by a Floopa post (at least TRY to give arguments)

[Floopa]

160% is slightly to low I'd say, that would have them equal to SotF in terms of additional HPS under optimal conditions - but they're not really smart, cast a relatively slow direct heal, whence run a higher risk of overheal/"wasted heal". Should be around 200-220% for HT, 230-250% for the swiftmend (depending on how you value the charge mechanic).


Exaggeration paired with and entirely nonsensical comparision, as expected by a Floopa post (at least TRY to give arguments)

treants are about as intelligent as divine star was. you use it when it's available, it can have 75% uptime with basic use? i don't get how it's exaggeration. it's easy to use. if u want a better comparison, it's as easy to use as ReM is.

and if it's doing 30% of a druid's total healing, 60% (1/5th~ of current value) meant it was doing 6% of your total healing. at 160% (1/2 of current value) it will do 15% of your total healing: judging from current logs, of course things change.

but if u wanna argue why you need to "manage" something which manages itself (it's basically HST/ReM) id love to hear the arguments, because ive never seen anyone ever call ReM/HST/divine star difficult gameplay.

[Hypasonic]

Enjoyed the testing tonight so far, the tier bonus' along with the treant change make the spec feel really fun for me, I prefer having multiple abilities that are worth casting than simply blanketing the raid with reju's.

The treants were doing top healing most of the time, they won't go live like that, but I hope they don't nerf them back into being useless. The 2 set seems very powerful, and I think they will probably end up reducing the amount of charges given (Although I hope they don't :P)

The 4 set is just amazing really, with the 2 set bonus and the HT glyph (Reducing cast time of HT) it's pretty simple to keep up, and varies the healing "rotation" which works well.

[heavenscalamity]

Hypa what kind of stat priority are you running in beta? Along with your talent choices?

I just did the mythic foundry testing on Beastlord and averaged around 45k hps for most attempts(all wipes though). How did you do?

[Hypasonic]

I'm going for mastery, even went with mastery food+flask due to 4 set, was around same as you 45k hps one of our longest tries:



Dem treants \o/

[ThePlanckEnergy]

I don't see why Treants can't go live as they are. Druids would be in a really rough spot at the moment without them. They are doing less healing than Rejuvenation was.

Disc does 60% of its healing through absorbs, and 70-85% of its healing from ONE cheap, instant cast aoe spell. Let's work on fixing that first. And everyone knows how well they scale with gear so you can pretty much pack it in and go home for the Tier(s?) that come after this one as they absorb everything in sight.

[stormgust]

treants are about as intelligent as divine star was. you use it when it's available, it can have 75% uptime with basic use? i don't get how it's exaggeration. it's easy to use. if u want a better comparison, it's as easy to use as ReM is.

Treants cast a 3s healing touch and do not choose their targets smartly (i.e. based on lowest hp), i.e. their overheal will be rather high - sure it's easy to use, but you have almost zero control outside the initial swiftmend on how effective their healing is.
Divine star on the other hand healed (almost) instantly, without diminishing returns - all you had to do was stay behind your (stacked) raid and fire&forget on cd for more or less maximal use.

But yeah, they are perfectly comparable ...

but if u wanna argue why you need to "manage" something which manages itself (it's basically HST/ReM) id love to hear the arguments, because ive never seen anyone ever call ReM/HST/divine star difficult gameplay.

It's not about being difficult gameplay, it's about being competitive within it's talent row. It's entirely irrelevant for the matter how easy to use/mindless ReM/HST/divine star or whatever spells are, how much they heal and deriving healing for FoN from that - all which matters is: It has to perform on par with SotF.

But you're comparing Divine Star with FoN, so I can definitely see why you're unable to look at how spells perform relative to their given alternatives (all you see is "OPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!" unless it's Mistweaver of course ...)

[Floopa]

if all those talents are contributing between 20-30% of your entire healing over the course of a fight, then simply said that talent row needs a nerf. no healer gets 20-30% of their healing from 1 talent row. the only ones, currently (5.4) which do this are RJW (in WoD not sustainable), eternal flame (HP generation nerfed), selfless healer (nerfed), divine star (nerfed), rushing streams (nerfed). i can't think of any more. the closest i can think in WoD is ToF generating around 15% of your total healing (if it's up 100% of the time) or WoM generating about 10% (upwards of 15% with 2/4pc holy bonus) of your healing. interestingly, both resto druids and holy priests are the top healers atm.

also in case you're wondering, i think RJW is OP on beta and i've always said it's OP, im actually surprised it hasn't been nerfed yet.