Its Sad the rate that Blizz pushes out content for WoW...

[finskee]

The problem is there are millions of players that still sub during the down period. What are they doing? I honestly have no idea.

Well, if you ask me, those people are RUINING wow. And my life. /cry

[Disconnected]

Oh look, this thread again, and with arm chair software developers that have no idea about how the software development process works comparing World of Warcraft to games that came out much later as usual. Let's go through the talking points one more time, even though I know this won't be the last.

But its sad quite frankly that WoW has 1 year luls between content, and other games have awesome content being pushed out every two weeks, every month, or every other month (GW2, Rift, and SWTOR being a good example of this)

First problem with this statement is that most of that "awesome content" that is pushed out by the mentioned games is far from that. It is often released full of bugs, consumed in a fraction of the time that it took to develop it, and on top of all that, just nothing really "exciting" or "different." A new quest line that took a month to develop and is consumed in a day or 2 is not "awesome content." Unfortunately, this is the vast majority of the new content that is released on a regular basis by the other MMOs mentioned.

Second problem with this statement is that the development times for the content is not nearly as fast as you people make it out to be. You claim that these games release new content on a weekly, bi-weekly, or even monthly basis but the actual time it took was not even close to those time frames. FYI, patches that only include hot fixes do not count because Blizzard hot fixes the game constantly. But don't take my word for it, let's look at some facts.

Rift: http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...s/patch-notes/
Rift's patches with new content have been at least 3 months apart for the past year and a 1/2. They started off with a new patch every month-1 1/2 months but they haven't been able to maintain that pace.

SWTOR: http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes
SWTOR's patches with new content have been between 2-3 months apart for about the past year. I don't know what their rate of development was prior to that because they appear to have changed the way they differentiate hot fixes from game updates and I can't be bothered to look through their old patch notes (they're a mess).

Guild Wars 2: https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/updates
Guild Wars 2 has had the smallest breaks in between new content patches. However, unfortunately for Guild Wars 2, they're the game that is most guilty of those lame one quest updates. Rather than packing multiples new quest lines into a single larger patch, they release each quest line as they develop it. This results in a 2-3 week development time for content that is consumed in a day or 2. Is it new content? Yes. Is it worth while content? Personally, I don't think so and although I'm sure more people would agree with me, I'm only speaking for myself and no one else. You will not be receiving a questionnaire.

Third problem with this statement is that you are comparing a game that is now 10 years old to games that are all less than 3 years old. Why is this relevant you ask? When video games are developed initially, they develop a backlog of content that they plan to release at a later time in addition to the content that they are going to release on the release date. For example, when World of Warcraft was first released, most of the Burning Crusade expansion was already developed and ready to go. Unfortunately, as the game ages, this backlog of content gets smaller and the team has to spend more time actually developing new content. After a few years, the development team is officially out of backlogged content and from that point forward, they literally have an extremely small amount of future content, if any, developed when they release new content. In the case of World of Warcraft, we saw this happen after the 2nd expansion, with expansions after WOTLK taking longer and longer to release. In the case of the other 3 MMOs mentioned, the rate of development has already slowed down drastically and the oldest of the 3 is a little over 3 years old. That does not exactly bode well and I'd be surprised if either of these games can maintain their rate of development after another 2-3 years.

The other sad thing is that these other games have free to play models.

Did you ever wonder why it is that games that were originally released with a P2P model are now F2P? With the exception of Guild Wars 2, which was released with a F2P model in the first place, the other 2 MMOs started with a P2P model and were forced to switch to a F2P shortly after release. I'll give you a hint, they didn't switch to a F2P model because they didn't like making money using the P2P model. They switched because they were losing subs at an alarming rate a very short time after release and their only hope of keeping a decent portion of those subscribers was to switch to a F2P model.

So why pay for something when you can get more for free?

Despite what it may seem like, you are not really getting "more" for free. While there is no denying that World of Warcraft has a lot more time between new content, the amount of new content that is released is often a much larger amount when compared to the patches of the other 3 MMOs. I can do some comparisons if you'd like but I think if you're truly honest with yourself, you'll realize that the content patches for the other 3 MMOs are not exactly as full of new content as they would lead you to believe.

Finally, one last thing that I want to point out that isn't necessarily related to your post but is just as relevant is that the engine that World of Warcraft is working with is over 10 years old at this point, compared to the 4-5 year old engines used by the other MMOs. As anyone who has done some work in game development will tell you, working with an outdated engine is painful. Trying to include new features using an engine that wasn't even designed with that feature in mind as opposed to using an engine that was designed with that feature in mind from the beginning is harder than it seems. Often times, you have to sell your soul to the devil and sacrifice a goat or 2 just to make it even possible. However, once you've found a way to do it, you now have to make sure that it doesn't break anything that was already developed. Another goat or 2 later and you finally have a new feature ready to go. People seem to forget this little detail but it has a huge effect on how long it takes for Blizzard to develop new content.

[Deficineiron]

Somebody else needs to answer that

But maybe the content isn't that "awesome" (like..you are in AWE of it) and the F2P model isn't all the shit it is made out to be? I mean..I read the f2p rules of SWoToR and I am like "Thank you, I rather pay 15 bucks in WoW"

People seem to underestimate how little 15 bucks are to a lot of people for a cool streamlined game to pay for a month. If it isn't to you...go for them f2p games. Seriously do.

Hello Det

In this case, I am not unsympathetic to the people asking about the content production rate for blizzard. While it is true that they stopped providing more regular updates after bc, it doesn't mean it is good design from a player interest perspective, particularly given how content is now treated as disposible and not really useful after the next major patch.

classic and bc, of course, had regular major updates within 6 months of subsequent expansion releases.

Activision-blizzard can do anything they set their minds to and approve funding for, in practical terms. This is the company that alleges that it cannot make more non-store mounts because they don't have the resources. It is laughable.

[finskee]

Erm...unless you are turning a blind eye to the forums, MMO Champion is actually not a fan forum but a forum where people CONSTANTLY whine about any change AND the lack of content. It is never enough really.----

The "C" in MMO-C stands for "complaining" as far as I am concerned

But Det, I'm feeling bad about this, I don't know what the point of coming here is anymore, if I can't make fun of the complaining... so I'm forced to join up with these peops if I want to be a part of this community. This is a valuable community that contributes IMPORTANT things to the world of gaming. I want to be a part of this and not feel left out. What should I do?

Thank god deficine is here. Perhaps he can clear this up for us.

[Geckoo]

The problem is there are millions of players that still sub during the down period. What are they doing? I honestly have no idea.

I have plenty of friends that are still raiding. Even though they tell me how at this point they already hate SoO. Why they do it? they must be having some kind of fun i guess, even if the raid has been for too long i can totally understand that a bunch of friends still finds something fun to do as long as they play together.

Each player has their own interests, some of us are already fed of Blizzard's crap, others still enjoy leveling their 20th alt through the same zone they always do with the idea to get him a legendary cloak and some challenge set before time runs out. That's in part what keeps Blizzard going, the wide variery of different players they have.

Personally? i also think that those players harm the game by not being more demanding, it's really shameful that they keep the same content for one whole year in a subscription based game and some customers are still happy about it, or even if they aren't, they keep paying.

[Jaylock]

Hello Det

In this case, I am not unsympathetic to the people asking about the content production rate for blizzard. While it is true that they stopped providing more regular updates after bc, it doesn't mean it is good design from a player interest perspective, particularly given how content is now treated as disposible and not really useful after the next major patch.

classic and bc, of course, had regular major updates within 6 months of subsequent expansion releases.

Activision-blizzard can do anything they set their minds to and approve funding for, in practical terms. This is the company that alleges that it cannot make more non-store mounts because they don't have the resources. It is laughable.

I would have to agree with everything you said here.

Blizzard is fully capable of doing a better job pushing out content. The only hall pass I could ever give them at this current time is the fact that they had some higher level management leave the company (Greg Street, Rob Pardo and possibly more devs that we dont know about).

They worked on and pushed content out (that they had presumably been working on for years) during vanilla and BC, but they are a constant think tank. They shouldn't be just pushing content out, and then thinking about whats next. Whats next should have already been in the oven for years before its ever pushed out.

[Earthbound]

Why do you think drop rates are so awful? To keep you playing.

[Deadite]

Third of the market or rather 36% (of sub based games)...is from a thread that went up last week and was ofc pretty controversially discussed. To be fair it was 36% of the top 10, I think. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...%28WOW-NO-1%29

Ah that makes more sense with some context. As you say tho 36% of the top 10 is a pretty meaningless number. I thought you were trying to say only 21 million people played mmos world wide.

[Deficineiron]

Jaylock is my new hero, that guy is not afraid to tell it like it is. Blizzard thinks that they can hide this huge content drought with this flimsy excuse 'we're making a new expansion' but it is crap. They aren't making a new expansion, they are all on vacation with rob pardo, and the fact is, anyone still playing wow at this point is a fanboy who needs to realize they are making the game worse by NOT complaining. Don't be a part of the problem guys... pull your head out.

come on mr finskee, you know they are taking more time because they are making the content better!! I never took you for a rabid hater incapable of reasoned self-delusion. clearly the classic-bc era content release pattern was an abberation, and the new way is the best way.

I expect a detailed 'winston smith' post promptly.

[finskee]

come on mr finskee, you know they are taking more time because they are making the content better!! I never took you for a rabid hater incapable of reasoned self-delusion. clearly the classic-bc era content release pattern was an abberation, and the new way is the best way.

I expect a detailed 'winston smith' post promptly.

I'm going to agree with you on everything, because you're always right, and you told me I was on ignore by the way.

[bryroo]

This thread was just bait for rabid apologists to attack.

Well Christ, it's not like they have anything else to do. They sure as hell don't have any new content to play.

[Deficineiron]

I would have to agree with everything you said here.

Blizzard is fully capable of doing a better job pushing out content. The only hall pass I could ever give them at this current time is the fact that they had some higher level management leave the company (Greg Street, Rob Pardo and possibly more devs that we dont know about).

They worked on and pushed content out (that they had presumably been working on for years) during vanilla and BC, but they are a constant think tank. They shouldn't be just pushing content out, and then thinking about whats next. Whats next should have already been in the oven for years before its ever pushed out.

i can only conclude the delay after 3.3.5 was due to personnel being reassigned to titan (it is widely stated that a lot of folks last worked on wow in ulduar), and that the staffing was not increased to meet the shortfall.

It is also quite plausible to speculate that cataclysm cancelled content was related to this.

i will note that I omitted to mention whatever ruby sanctum or the last wotlk patch was, but compared to late classic or 2.4.x, a room with a single dragon hardly seems an appropriate comparison.

[ReleaseDay]

Yeah they're just too slow with content realseing especially expansions.

[Deficineiron]

I'm going to agree with you on everything, because you're always right, and you told me I was on ignore by the way.

I was momentarily aghast at such a post from you. You changed your avatar and I remain confused and befuddled.

[Christan]

people mentioning SWtor are utterly wrong, its p2w
you are so limited with only the free stuff it's insane, example would be in WoW
leveling a new toon you need to do X number of dungeons for gear, but you are limited to 3 dungeons a day.
1 raid entrance a day, whether or not you kill the bosses, etc.
SWToR is a BAD example. it's P2W
though not in the classic sense --paying for gear improvements, although with how it works you pay for gear indirectly - being able to do more dungeons.
@OP i agree mostly, i agree with people saying the timing on releases were wrong

[Deficineiron]

But Det, I'm feeling bad about this, I don't know what the point of coming here is anymore, if I can't make fun of the complaining... so I'm forced to join up with these peops if I want to be a part of this community. This is a valuable community that contributes IMPORTANT things to the world of gaming. I want to be a part of this and not feel left out. What should I do?

Thank god deficine is here. Perhaps he can clear this up for us.

mmo-c is an ex-wow player rejection support forum. many feel (subliminally) rejected by game/company for any number of reasons (lots and LOTS of changes over years), and ex=-player base is large enough to need/create/adopt/co-opt a support group.

first step for everyone is stepping to front of thread and saying ;my name is x and I am/was a wow addict.'

[Christan]

How exactly is the rate at which blizzard releases content "sad"? Have you played any other mmo? They might release "patches" faster than wow does, but those patches are tiny bug fixes and minor alterations, equivalent to the hotfixes we get in wow, not full blown patches with massive amounts of new content. Find me another mmo that releases a full blown expansion every 1.5-2 years, and releases 3-5 major content patches within that time frame, then we'll talk.

ehh...idk about that granted FFXIV is Sub based still, get content every 3 months,
even next patch getting a new class to play,
as a patch, not an expansion.
timeline on their patches is good for me, 1 new dungeon, 2 hardmodes of previous dungeons, a single raid boss, and new raid tiers every 3/6 months

but no blizz releases their content with bad timing, it's not sad

[finskee]

I was momentarily aghast at such a post from you. You changed your avatar and I remain confused and befuddled.

Why, because I'm smart enough to switch sides now and agree with you? That surprises you? The fact that I'm not calling out the errors in your posts, or defending Blizzard? Sorry if I've had enough of that game. I've changed my way of thinking, and now hopefully, you guys can accept me as one of you. A real Blizzard hating, conclusion jumping, financial wizardly type, who knows what is best for wow and calls everyone else names who do not agree. I feel happier already.

- - - Updated - - -

mmo-c is an ex-wow player rejection support forum. many feel (subliminally) rejected by game/company for any number of reasons (lots and LOTS of changes over years), and ex=-player base is large enough to need/create/adopt/co-opt a support group.

first step for everyone is stepping to front of thread and saying ;my name is x and I am/was a wow addict.'

I don't think that cleared it up for me. Please explain why we post here at all? Or better yet, explain why a fan of wow, still subbed, would come here to post... explain that for me. PLEASE.

[Deadite]

Guild Wars 2: https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/updates
Guild Wars 2 has had the smallest breaks in between new content patches. However, unfortunately for Guild Wars 2, they're the game that is most guilty of those lame one quest updates. Rather than packing multiples new quest lines into a single larger patch, they release each quest line as they develop it. This results in a 2-3 week development time for content that is consumed in a day or 2. Is it new content? Yes. Is it worth while content? Majority of people would say no.

Did you send out a questionnaire? I play GW2 and did not get it. Since you are speaking for me i should get a vote don't you think?

I don't know anyone who would rather wait a year for new content rather and get new content every fortnight. It is content you can do along with eveything else in the game. It may take a few hours or a few days to do but it is new. It keeps you engaged in the world and the story. The living story in GW2 is magnificent imho. Season two is even better than season one so far.

[Disconnected]

Did you send out a questionnaire? I play GW2 and did not get it. Since you are speaking for me i should get a vote don't you think?

I don't know anyone who would rather wait a year for new content rather and get new content every fortnight. It is content you can do along with eveything else in the game. It may take a few hours or a few days to do but it is new. It keeps you engaged in the world and the story. The living story in GW2 is magnificent imho. Season two is even better than season one so far.

If I knew you were going to rip a tiny fraction of my post out of context and get butt hurt about it, I would have been more careful about using generalizing statements like that. My apologies, wasn't my intention at all to "speak for you." I'll go ahead and correct it and you can go back to crying about whatever else you take personally in my post.

EDIT: Fixed the original post.