Auchindoun Dungeon, Mage Tier 6 Recolor, Warlords Features, Blue Posts, Wowcraft

[Revak]

Let's agree to disagree.

You want Blizzard resources and time spent on 90-99 content. I prefer to see it spent on level 100 content.

Also, if you haven't figured out by now that you are on the verge of getting more "relevant" dungeon content than ever before via "old dungeon scaling", then you haven't been paying attention. Think they revamped BFD just for fun? No. Between the leaks, hints, and videos showing the tech in action - its pretty obvious that the big unannounced feature will be dungeon scaling so that you'll soon have more to do than you can handle.

Oh yeah, we can disagree. And I hope you're right and that dungeon scaling is going to be the big feature of WoD. That would be awesome. But for now it's not and it's hard to believe they are going to give us more dungeon-ing when they've been taking it away for a few xpacks now.

As far as blizz devoting resources to 90-99 content. I want them to devote resources to the game. The entire game. This whole notion that if they skimp on the leveling content and other stuff we'll see a lot better end-game content is misguided. We are not getting as much end-game content as we used to. It seems to me (and a lot of people) that their excuse for doing less and less is that they don't want to take time away from other stuff. Is the team smaller? Is the team just not as good? Are they getting too much pressure from above to release and don't have the time? Somehow Blizz is not able to do as much as they used to with the resources they have. We get lots of mounts, and pets, and various levels of the same raid....but not as many dungeons, raids, bosses, etc etc. So it seems as though not spending more resources on other stuff to focus on end-game isn't paying off. IMO

[Incredibale]

I'm not going to defend the number, but I'm just going to say that maybe they realize that creating leveling dungeons isn't a very good use of time? I imagine they have the numbers, but I'm curious how many people do the dungeons during the expansion they are in rather than just leveling by doing the zones?

Sample size of one (me), that's how I seem to do it. The first time leveling in an expansion, I don't touch the Dungeons. Maybe other people are that way too? Even if that is not the case, I don't think it's worth the disproportionate anger that it's getting.

Ever since they introduced RDF, dungeon running has become a viable method of leveling when they aren't neutering dungeon XP like in Pandaria. I never level my characters exclusively through questing, and I doubt many people do. Questing just doesn't compare to running dungeons in terms of gameplay. Even before the advent of RDF, Vanilla, BC, and Wrath had many more leveling dungeons than WoD will.

There's really no legitimate reason for so few leveling dungeons in WoD considering how many dungeons most iterations of WoW have had over the years. This is why people suspect, rightly or wrongly, that Blizz wants to phase out 5 mans or devote very little time to them.

I honestly don't see how Blizz can be defended on this. 4 leveling dungeons for 10 levels? That's half of what Wrath and BC offered if a little less.

edit: More leveling dungeons = more level 100 dungeons because they'll be heroics.

[Siddown]

Ever since they introduced RDF, dungeon running has become a viable method of leveling when they aren't neutering dungeon XP like in Pandaria. I never level my characters exclusively through questing, and I doubt many people do. Questing just doesn't compare to running dungeons in terms of gameplay. Even before the advent of RDF, Vanilla, BC, and Wrath had many more leveling dungeons than WoD will.

There's really no legitimate reason for so few leveling dungeons in WoD considering how many dungeons most iterations of WoW have had over the years. This is why people suspect, rightly or wrongly, that Blizz wants to phase out 5 mans or devote very little time to them.

I honestly don't see how Blizz can be defended on this. 4 leveling dungeons for 10 levels? That's half of what Wrath and BC offered if a little less.

edit: More leveling dungeons = more level 100 dungeons because they'll be heroics.

I have no source for this, but I have a feeling they are trying to change things up to give the illusion that there is more to do at max level. So the "normal" level 100 dungeons will be for "leveling" your newly dinged level 100 character, because Heroics will be much too difficult for 100s in greens, which is why they are requiring players to pass a proving ground.

While I agree with your edit about heroics, I think they want to have players feel like there's more to do at max level than just start running recycled content (which is how many see heroics). Again, I have no source for that, just a feeling.

But when it comes to hyperbola of "I honestly don't see how Blizz can be defended on this", I think you are doing what a lot people do, you are mistaking how you play the game for how 7+ million other people play. You want more leveling dungeons, and that's fine, but that doesn't mean everyone else does. That's not defending Blizzard, that's simply stating a possibility.

[Azrile]

Yeah as someone who loves leveling through dungeons this is really bad. TBC had 11 leveling instances, WotLK had 10 I think, Cataclysm had 7 but that was for 5 levels. I don't get this when the game is about playing with other players..

The fact that it is 10 levels really doesn´t matter. it is still going to take the same number of hours ( or dungeon runs) to go from 90-100 as it did to go from 85-90... you will just be dinging faster.

I do agree though, They do so much ´repeat´ content already, I don´t know why they don´t have ALL of the dungeons be 90-99, then another normal version at 100, then another heroic version. The work to create a dungeon is 90% graphics, and leveling dungeons are always very undertuned anyway ( they don´t need micro-balancing)..

[Incredibale]

I have no source for this, but I have a feeling they are trying to change things up to give the illusion that there is more to do at max level. So the "normal" level 100 dungeons will be for "leveling" your newly dinged level 100 character, because Heroics will be much too difficult for 100s in greens, which is why they are requiring players to pass a proving ground.

While I agree with your edit about heroics, I think they want to have players feel like there's more to do at max level than just start running recycled content (which is how many see heroics). Again, I have no source for that, just a feeling.

But when it comes to hyperbola of "I honestly don't see how Blizz can be defended on this", I think you are doing what a lot people do, they mistake how they play the game for how 7+ million people play. You want more leveling dungeons, and that's fine, but that doesn't mean everyone else does. That's not defending blizzard, that's just stating a possibility.

It's one thing to demand more leveling dungeons if they've been keeping parity with past expansions (which they haven't) but entirely something different when they announce a record low number. I'm going to state that it is COMPLETELY outside the realm of possibility that a sizable number of actual players would not be happy with more dungeons. If we have seen a reduction in the amount of leveling through dungeons it is only because Blizzard could be pushing players in a given direction through reduced dungeon numbers and neutered XP gains.

Five mans bring real gameplay to the game while not bringing the insane time sinks, stress, and performance hits that raids do. There is almost no interaction with other people in questing, there is very little group content, and most of the time you can quest while slapping your willy to BBW porn videos. Scenarios could theoretically offer 5 man style gameplay, as 3 players would permit one person or each role, but they are not set up like that.

Essentially, questing is a single player experience. 5 mans bring interaction into the game without, as I already said, the baggage that comes with real raiding, therefore, we should have as much 5 man content as possible.

[Siddown]

I'm going to state that it is COMPLETELY outside the realm of possibility that a sizable number of actual players would not be happy with more dungeons

Yes, of course, without considering the opportunity cost, most if not all players would like more dungeons. Unfortunately, we don't live in a world with infinite resources.

If the choice is "more leveling dungeons" v. "more content to do once you hit max level", I bet most players would favor the latter.

[Incredibale]

Yes, of course, without considering the opportunity cost, most if not all players would like more dungeons. Unfortunately, we don't live in a world with infinite resources.

If the choice is "more leveling dungeons" v. "more content to do once you hit max level", I bet most players would favor the latter.

Blizzard has taken on considerably more staff for this expansion. They've realized, or want us to think they realize, that WoW is the company's bread and butter, their meat and potatoes. With their additional staff, they should be able to offer both. It's because they have more staff that we're not supposed to be in this false choice scenario any longer.

There's no good reason for fewer dungeons while having more staff than the previous expansion.

[Siddown]

There's no good reason for fewer dungeons while having more staff than the previous expansion.

Unless they realize that not as many people considering leveling dungeons important as you do. Again, you're problem appears to be that you can't fathom that a large portion of the player base might not share your opinion of what is important. I'm sure they know a lot more about what their player base likes than you or I do. So rather than just assuming that Blizzard as just a-holes and they are intentionally doing this to hurt you, maybe ask yourself what other reasons exist for not making more leveling dungeons.

I realized a long time ago that what I consider important in WoW is not what everyone wants, so I don't get mad when Blizzard doesn't do everything I want. This is why I don't just play WoW, I play other games as well to fill those niches. If WoW does enough of what I like, I renew my sub and I play until it no longer scratches that itch. Once the game doesn't do enough to keep me interested, I cancel my sub and move on. Personally, for me WoD is doing a lot more right than wrong, so I'm willing to give it a shot. If it doesn't succeed, I'll cancel my sub and not play anymore.

[Incredibale]

Unless they realize that not as many people considering leveling dungeons important as you do. Again, you're problem appears to be that you can't fathom that a large portion of the player base might not share your opinion of what is important. I'm sure they know a lot more about what their player base likes than you or I do. So rather than just assuming that Blizzard as just a-holes and they are intentionally doing this to hurt you, maybe ask yourself what other reasons exist for not making more leveling dungeons.

I realized a long time ago that what I consider important in WoW is not what everyone wants, so I don't get mad when Blizzard doesn't do everything I want. This is why I don't just play WoW, I play other games as well to fill those niches. If WoW does enough of what I like, I renew my sub and I play until it no longer scratches that itch. Once the game doesn't do enough to keep me interested, I cancel my sub and move on. Personally, for me WoD is doing a lot more right than wrong, so I'm willing to give it a shot. If it doesn't succeed, I'll cancel my sub and not play anymore.

I'm assuming, and rightfully so, that Blizzard pursues agendas, and they are not always on the level regarding that.

Your argument could be applied to anything in this game. The same has been said of the hub issue, of garrisons, of Tanaan, races, everything. "Things don't matter to some people". It's just excuse making on Blizzard's behalf.

They've had all this time to work on the expansion, more than the others based on how long we're going to be in SoO. More staff on top of that. Despite all this, it is objective fact that this expansion will contain less of certain kinds of content, at least up front, than previous expansions. It is questionable that they will add what they say they will add later, based on how much trouble they have delivering so far.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Nothing in this game have ever been hard to master in this game at al and on that same note the ability pruning will ofcourse not make it harder to master it,


Casuals are fine in any game they're just having fun while playing which is the point, but people saying anything is hard to master in this game is as bad as people crying that blizzard are removing "this and that".

But I suppose GW2 is hard to master, right?

It's pretty obvious that not everyone is capable of playing this game, or other games, to the full potential. Sitting e-peening and saying that it's not hard to do that doesn't change facts, that only a VERY few actually manage it.

This game offers challenges, anyone disputing that is either bitter about not being able to handle them, or trying to spread shit on account of trashing this game. I remember pretty strongly learning how to play my class properly, it didn't come automatically like some would like to pretend.

Of course, the challenge still doesn't involve more than using a keyboard and a mouse, so in THAT sense it might lack challenge but then again...all games are like that.

- - - Updated - - -

I kind of feel bad for Lore. Looks like he's taking personal offense.

Who the hell wouldn't, the people he's responding to are utterly horrible.

[Jacob6875]

So I will be paying $15 a month for over a year plus the $40 cost of the new expansion.


In order to get 4 leveling dungeons?

Seriously?

[Deleted]

If we continue like this, be ready for the next expansion after WoD with the amazing number of... 2 leveling dungeons.

[Venziir]

So I will be paying $15 a month for over a year plus the $40 cost of the new expansion.


In order to get 4 leveling dungeons?

Seriously?

... Yes, it's not like you get *anything* else - at all.

[deadman1]

So I will be paying $15 a month for over a year plus the $40 cost of the new expansion.


In order to get 4 leveling dungeons?

Seriously?

Yup, there is nothing else to do while leveling, and when you hit level 100 you don't get anything else at all.

/sarcasm

[Deleted]

The fact that blizzard gave so much attention to a troll-like post shows without a doubt how far into the damage control phase they are. They know they're shitting out a sub-par product for $10 more but they can never say it so they have to rabidly defend feeble attempts such as the troll thread to prevent their last players from leaving in droves. Must suck to work there right now.

Please quit the game.

[Eleveneleven]

Which proves my above point entirely. He also explained why those statements were false.

He didn't explain shit about the most important fact. That they tried to hide the leak on the garrison cash shop. All he said was basically "nuh uh". That's not explaining, and it did happen.

[Siddown]

Your argument could be applied to anything in this game. The same has been said of the hub issue, of garrisons, of Tanaan, races, everything. "Things don't matter to some people". It's just excuse making on Blizzard's behalf.

I'm hardly making excuses, just raising possibilities. Back at one of the first Blizcons (or maybe the first one), they put out a video that was called something to the effect of "If we listened to the forums" and it was what MC would have looked like if they took all the advice of the forums. The video showed just how silly all the requests coming from players were, and basically it hammered home what would happen to the game if they listed exclusively to the forums.

All I'm saying is, just because you scream loudly on a non-official forum, it doesn't mean our views represent a large proportion of the actual player bases. I'm not going to argue if they could have done more work or not, all I am saying is that leveling dungeons might not be as important to everyone else as it is to you. If you want to get faux angry about it, or worse, get really angry about it, that's entirely up to you.

You call that "pursing an agenda", I call that building software. It's harder than you think.

[MESchneider96]

I'm surprised my tweet regarding rolling thunder procs was put on mmo-champion. When Celestalon responded it kind of felt like a stupid question, even though i was not aware that multistrikes procced it.

[Aelric70]

Only having 4 dungeons whilst levelling is actually a legitimate concern. Not for me, I rarely touch dungeons whilst levelling, but I know plenty of people like to level that way. I don't really see any of the other complaints as actually being problematic. I couldn't give a shit where the faction base is, for instance.

Not nearly as concerning as the use of "whilst" it turns out

[Mendal]

an you ppl think that 4 dungeons for 90-99lvl is OK?