If Blizzard couldn't use 'The Dark Below', what would you call an Azshara expansion?

[Lolretadin]

She's one of the most powerful beings that isn't an old god on azeroth. Her power is substantial.

People say her power is substantial, but all we know is...
1) She's stronger than Mannoroth.
2) She's likely more powerful than Malfurion, though when they meet in Cataclysm she doesn't fight him, which would indicate that doing so would have been a considerable risk.
3) She's less powerful than Archimonde or Kil'jaeden.
4) She's most likely less powerful than Arthas or Deathwing.

[Deleted]

She isn't, she's a plot device to help further the goals of more powerful entities.
For the Legion, she was needed to open a portal.
For the Old Gods, she was needed for her people.
She is unimportant.

She is quite literally the most powerful being on Azeroth who isn't an Old God. Only the Old Gods, the Titans and the leaders of the Burning Legion are more powerful than her. If Garrosh is powerful enough to be an expansion end boss, she sure as hell is. She is not a mere lackey of either the Burning Legion or the Old Gods, everything she does is for her own gain. I'd love to see an expansion where she manages to outfox them both and claims power for herself.

[Charmanderp]

That one expansion with the night elf fish lady.

[Deleted]

Pandaria is and always has been a continent. It wouldn't have made sense to make it the size of Quel'danas.

This is not true. So far as I'm aware barely anything about Pandaria was known prior to Mists. Most people expected it to be a single zone from what I remember, serving as the Pandaren starting zone and nothing more.

[Deleted]

There's no reason to give her an expansion of her own, she's not powerful enough. At BEST she would either be the end-boss of a tier before the final one, with an Old God at the end, or the new Fandral Staghelm.

Are we talking about the same Azshara here or do you not actually know what she's all about?

[Facerockker]

"Whispers of Madness" or "Eye of the Nightmare"

[Deleted]

Azshara would rank VERY low on the scale of power in the current Azeroth. She is, at best, marginally more powerful than Malfurion.

This is completely untrue. The major powers on Azeroth are the Old Gods, the Elemental Lords and the Ancients. Given their sheer strength she is certainly less powerful than the Old Gods. We know she is more powerful than Neptulon at least as Neptulon is presumably her captive after Vash'jir/Throne of The Tides. So it's not a stretch to say she is more powerful than Therazane as well. No word on her power in relation to the Ancients but that is irrelevant as they aren't competing with her for the role of expansion big bad.

[Keny]

Call of the Kraken
Revenge of the Queen
Ruins of Nazjatar

[Lolretadin]

She is quite literally the most powerful being on Azeroth who isn't an Old God. Only the Old Gods, the Titans and the leaders of the Burning Legion are more powerful than her. If Garrosh is powerful enough to be an expansion end boss, she sure as hell is. She is not a mere lackey of either the Burning Legion or the Old Gods, everything she does is for her own gain. I'd love to see an expansion where she manages to outfox them both and claims power for herself.

Protar, I don't want to be mean but you need to understand how the logic in fantasy works.
- Garrosh was a threat because he had a large population of the Orcs at his back and they were willing to use weapons of mass destruction to any end they saw fit.
- Garrosh was able to become competent boss because took the power of an Old God into himself, his own power was fairly insignificant.

The entire concept that Azshara is this powerful entity has always been fallacious, as the ONLY being who regards her power is Mannoroth and that estimate was almost 10,000 years out of date. In the Cataclysm, as in the previous expansion, she opts out of fighting Malfurion and, instead, tells him that he has to make the choice of going to Hyjal to save it or saving Darkshore. IF Azshara was as powerful as people try and make her out to be, then she would have easily been able to defeat him. She has done NOTHING of note as of yet and has been manipulated by almost every major power.
> The Legion used her to get to Azeroth.
> The Old Gods used her because they had nothing to lose and an army to gain.
She is NOT significant nor important. Until such a time that they do massive retcons for her character, she will never be anything but a second-rate boss.

[Grizzelbar]

I would have called it: "World of Warcraft: I've Seen Enough Hentai To Know Where This Is Going"

http://images.wikia.com/wowwiki/imag.../AzsharaSL.jpg

[Lolretadin]

Are we talking about the same Azshara here or do you not actually know what she's all about?

I know who she is, but she would be one of the weakest end bosses that we would have ever faced.

[KrazyK923]

People say her power is substantial, but all we know is...
1) She's stronger than Mannoroth.
2) She's likely more powerful than Malfurion, though when they meet in Cataclysm she doesn't fight him, which would indicate that doing so would have been a considerable risk.
3) She's less powerful than Archimonde or Kil'jaeden.
4) She's most likely less powerful than Arthas or Deathwing.

Just because she doesn't fight Malfurion doesn't mean she considers him a considerable risk. She flatout says she was just diverting his attention while Twilight's Hammer attacked Hyjal.

The entire concept that Azshara is this powerful entity has always been fallacious, as the ONLY being who regards her power is Mannoroth and that estimate was almost 10,000 years out of date. In the Cataclysm, as in the previous expansion, she opts out of fighting Malfurion and, instead, tells him that he has to make the choice of going to Hyjal to save it or saving Darkshore. IF Azshara was as powerful as people try and make her out to be, then she would have easily been able to defeat him. She has done NOTHING of note as of yet and has been manipulated by almost every major power.

This is ridiculous. You're calling things fallacious and offering no legitimate counter other than, apparently, what you "feel."

She's done nothing of note and has been manipulated by every power? Sargeras and now (presumably) N'Zoth. EVERY POWER!

She's directly compared to Kil'jaeden and Archimonde, but no. You're right. She'd be weaker than a Warchief using an Old God's heart.

Its not like we saw her entire army sweep over Vashj'ir and then enslave the Elemental God of Water or anything. Just say that you don't want her as a boss. Stop with this bullshit that she isn't powerful. She most certainly is.

[Lolretadin]

This is completely untrue. The major powers on Azeroth are the Old Gods, the Elemental Lords and the Ancients. Given their sheer strength she is certainly less powerful than the Old Gods. We know she is more powerful than Neptulon at least as Neptulon is presumably her captive after Vash'jir/Throne of The Tides. So it's not a stretch to say she is more powerful than Therazane as well. No word on her power in relation to the Ancients but that is irrelevant as they aren't competing with her for the role of expansion big bad.

1) There are more parties interested in Azeroth than JUST those 3. To even consider only listing them is daft.
2) No, there is no evidence that she is more powerful than Neptulon. In fact, when Ozumat takes him captive he had already been weakened by the corruption that had been caused to both him and his realm.

[Deleted]

I know who she is, but she would be one of the weakest end bosses that we would have ever faced.

That's a pretty substantial claim to make. "Weakest end bosses that we would have ever faced" is a downright lie and I suggest choosing words carefully before talking.


Anyway, if Azshara was tied to anything it'd be N'Zoth. N'Zoth is the most powerful old god we know of and Azshara is basically second in command. That alone speaks volumes for how powerful she is. It's literally ~10,000 years of old god influence affecting her. Garrosh had about a 2 years tops to become the end boss of MoP.

An old god that was weak enough to be killed.

[Lolretadin]

Just because she doesn't fight Malfurion doesn't mean she considers him a considerable risk. She flatout says she was just diverting his attention while Twilight's Hammer attacked Hyjal.

Yes and if defeating Malfurion was well within her power, she's an idiot for not doing it.
So she's either stupid or incapable.

This is ridiculous. You're calling things fallacious and offering no legitimate counter other than, apparently, what you "feel."

She's done nothing of note and has been manipulated by every power? Sargeras and now (presumably) N'Zoth. EVERY POWER!

She's directly compared to Kil'jaeden and Archimonde, but no. You're right. She'd be weaker than a Warchief using an Old God's heart. >.>

Its not like we saw her entire army sweep over Vashj'ir and then enslave the Elemental God of Water or anything.

1) I have yet to see anyone post anything other than the idiocy that is "she stopped herself and a few others from drowning" or "herpderp 10,000 year old quote."
2) The Legion and the Old Gods are the two major powers vying for control of Azeroth, so she has been manipulated by the only real major players in this game.
3) She wasn't compared to them, do you even know the quote? It was explicitly said that they would both prove superior to her. I don't know if you know this, but the gap between Archimonde and Mannoroth is pretty large.
4) Learn to pay attention while in the instance and you would know what happened.

[Deleted]

Protar, I don't want to be mean but you need to understand how the logic in fantasy works.
- Garrosh was a threat because he had a large population of the Orcs at his back and they were willing to use weapons of mass destruction to any end they saw fit.
- Garrosh was able to become competent boss because took the power of an Old God into himself, his own power was fairly insignificant.

- Azshara has a large population of Naga at her command.
- Azshara also has the power of an Old God.

The entire concept that Azshara is this powerful entity has always been fallacious, as the ONLY being who regards her power is Mannoroth and that estimate was almost 10,000 years out of date. In the Cataclysm, as in the previous expansion, she opts out of fighting Malfurion and, instead, tells him that he has to make the choice of going to Hyjal to save it or saving Darkshore. IF Azshara was as powerful as people try and make her out to be, then she would have easily been able to defeat him. She has done NOTHING of note as of yet and has been manipulated by almost every major power.

Azshara's main power is her power of manipulation. This is the woman who managed to entrance the entire Night Elf population under her spell. She breeds adoration and loyalty and is adept at controlling others. An expansion could well revolve around her manipulating others in order to gain their power, whilst her Naga cause a lot of trouble for Azeroth.

> The Legion used her to get to Azeroth.
> The Old Gods used her because they had nothing to lose and an army to gain.

Azshara was a willing participant in both of these events. These were not her being manipulated, but her making power plays for herself.

She is NOT significant nor important. Until such a time that they do massive retcons for her character, she will never be anything but a second-rate boss.

No massive retcons are required. At the end of the day your argument is made null by the fact that they took Pandaren and made them into an expansion. That was able to happen because we knew very little about Pandaria, so Blizzard was free to write whatever they wanted. It's much the same here. The Naga are still very mysterious and Azshara has made but only two brief appearances in game, and the book information we have of her is thousands of years out of date. Azshara can be as powerful as Blizzard wants her to be. So seeing as the South Seas is one of the most ripe stories for an expansion, Blizzard would be fools not to utilise her to her full potential.

[KrazyK923]

Yes and if defeating Malfurion was well within her power, she's an idiot for not doing it.
So she's either stupid or incapable.

Yeah because its not like we've had several bosses that have done that before. Lich King throughout all of Northrend? Deathwing during his various appearances?

1) I have yet to see anyone post anything other than the idiocy that is "she stopped herself and a few others from drowning" or "herpderp 10,000 year old quote."
2) The Legion and the Old Gods are the two major powers vying for control of Azeroth, so she has been manipulated by the only real major players in this game.
3) She wasn't compared to them, do you even know the quote? It was explicitly said that they would both prove superior to her. I don't know if you know this, but the gap between Archimonde and Mannoroth is pretty large.
4) Learn to pay attention while in the instance and you would know what happened.

This just shows me you're taking slightly vague statements as supporting your incorrect notion that Azshara is somehow this weakling. The pretentiousness is the icing on the cake for me to just ignore you from here on out.

[Skayth]

People say her power is substantial, but all we know is...
1) She's stronger than Mannoroth.
2) She's likely more powerful than Malfurion, though when they meet in Cataclysm she doesn't fight him, which would indicate that doing so would have been a considerable risk.
3) She's less powerful than Archimonde or Kil'jaeden.
4) She's most likely less powerful than Arthas or Deathwing.

This was 10,000 years ago... if her power stayed the same as then... then what did she do? Take a 10,000 year long nap? Oh, right, she got powered up. And more powered up. Pretty sure this means, she is, literally, the most powerful person left upon the face azeroth. She might even be able to size up Kil'jaeden or Archimonde at this point.

Why? From the old god powerups, and now controlling neptulon, and who knows what other powers she might have, from being at the well or at the bottom of the ocean. Hell, she could have found more powerful artifacts in the tomb of sargeras. (remember, there was an idol/statue of Queen Azshara in there in wc3).

At this point, from all we know, she is the single most powerful person on the face of azeroth, this includes green jesus. Dont get me wrong, deus ex machina always wins, but at this point with all of thrall's power ups and story in the cataclysm, shows that Queen Azshara is still more powerful than him, at this point...

[Deleted]

1) There are more parties interested in Azeroth than JUST those 3. To even consider only listing them is daft.
2) No, there is no evidence that she is more powerful than Neptulon. In fact, when Ozumat takes him captive he had already been weakened by the corruption that had been caused to both him and his realm.

1.) I didn't suggest that they were. Just that they are the big powers currently on Azeroth. There are a couple of others like the Dragonflights and the New Scourge though we have no evidence either way to say whether or not Azshara is more powerful than them. Blizzard can have it any way they like.
2.) So what if Neptulon was weakened? Even if he was stronger than Azshara before he isn't now. He's his captive in all likelihood.

[Lolretadin]

That's a pretty substantial claim to make. "Weakest end bosses that we would have ever faced" is a downright lie and I suggest choosing words carefully before talking.


Anyway, if Azshara was tied to anything it'd be N'Zoth. N'Zoth is the most powerful old god we know of and Azshara is basically second in command. That alone speaks volumes for how powerful she is. It's literally ~10,000 years of old god influence affecting her. Garrosh had about a 2 years tops to become the end boss of MoP.

An old god that was weak enough to be killed.

1) It's a pretty apt description. The ONLY end-bosses that would be weaker would be Illidan and Kel'thuzad.
2) There is no concrete proof that she has received any blessings other than the initial one, and claiming so is silly. It would be much more reasonable to say that she is likely more powerful after all this time due to her ability to practice the arcane arts without and potential restraints that may have been placed on her in Night-elven society, though there were likely few or none. Even then, that argument could just as easily by the thing with Malfurion that I've mentioned numerous times.
3) There's a difference between consuming the power of an Old God and just receiving their blessing.