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  1. #21
    Mechagnome DrArtorius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kael View Post
    Not sure about the status on rolling hemo/CT, I should really catch up on that.
    If they don't change anything, only if, I believe we'll spam Hemo when Agi procs to get a very big rolling bleed and only then start to BS/Amb.

    I mean, Hemo is more energy efficient as everyone pointed already, the only thing that makes BS better than Hemo is the MS effect... Which will be not very reliable early expansion.


    Ok Ladies, I guess we went from "Haste will fix it" to Multistrike will break it...
    "Haste will fix it" - Ghostcrawler

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by CasualNoob View Post
    No. You don't lose any damage. Let's say there are 2 ticks remaining for 300 damage. In total 600 damage. You refresh dot to 6 ticks, 100 damage per tick. You have lesser tick damage, but higher time remainig - thus higher number of possible ms procs during that time. Total damage would be the same, you have 3 times lesser damage from one proc, but 3 times higher number of procs (in average).
    You're missing the point. The damage of the finisher is retained but the damage per tick is lower. This means sinister calling extra bleed ticks are less and subsequently the sinister calling effect of backstab does less damage. Finisher does same damage, backstab does same damage, extra ticks from sinister calling do less damage. If you have 3 components and 2 are the same and 1 is less, that means you're doing less damage.
    Last edited by shadowboy; 2014-08-03 at 10:31 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    Not True. Let's say you have a CT that hit for 100, so you have a bleed dealing 40 damage per 2 sec for 12 sec. 7 sec in you get an agi proc CT for 200. This adds the 480 damage to the remaining 120, for a total amount of 600, or 100 damage per tick. 7 seconds later you get a non-proc CT for 100 damage again. At this point you are now adding 240 damage to the remaining bleed of 300, for a total bleed amount of 540, or 90 damage per tick. Guess what, you just LOST bleed damage and those backstab MS extra ticks are going to hit for less for the next 5 seconds than if you chose to eviscerate instead.
    Good. Now you only have to solve the question: How much more/less damage is eviscerate doing, in comparison to CT? Lets say it does less, then the dmg gain via SC/MS procc by leaving the DoT ticks high, could actually be lower than the dmg you lose by using eviscerate instead of CT.

    Even with exact numbers, you can not solve this formula, as SC/MS is still a PROC, that might or might not occur during that 5 second window...which btw. is dependent on a couple other things, like possible uptime on boss, etc.

    In the end, it will boil down to my previous statement: The potential dmg gain by min-maxing this one mechanic will simply not outweigh the extra hassle. I predict that the difference between a sub rogue who does that, and one who doesn't, will be entirely unnoticeable. Maybe, Hemo-Bleed upstacking during powerful proccs instead of BSing will really become a thing, and I would actually look forward to that, as I like the Idea of making Sub more dependent on its bleed effects.
    Last edited by Sorzzara; 2014-08-04 at 05:51 AM.
    -== Worgen Rageface makes me laugh ==-

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorzzara View Post
    Good. Now you only have to solve the question: How much more/less damage is eviscerate doing, in comparison to CT? Lets say it does less, then the dmg gain via SC/MS procc by leaving the DoT ticks high, could actually be lower than the dmg you lose by using eviscerate instead of CT.

    Even with exact numbers, you can not solve this formula, as SC/MS is still a PROC, that might or might not occur during that 5 second window...which btw. is dependent on a couple other things, like possible uptime on boss, etc.

    In the end, it will boil down to my previous statement: The potential dmg gain by min-maxing this one mechanic will simply not outweigh the extra hassle. I predict that the difference between a sub rogue who does that, and one who doesn't, will be entirely unnoticeable. Maybe, Hemo-Bleed upstacking during powerful proccs instead of BSing will really become a thing, and I would actually look forward to that, as I like the Idea of making Sub more dependent on its bleed effects.
    Based on wowhead's datamined formula (standard caveat applies) eviscerate does more damage than CT (cumulative CT, dd + bleed). It means you gain finisher damage AND MS proc damage by holding off on re-applying CT.

    I'm not disagreeing with your assessment on its worth. I agree, but min-maxing is about that 1%, isn't it?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    Based on wowhead's datamined formula (standard caveat applies) eviscerate does more damage than CT (cumulative CT, dd + bleed). It means you gain finisher damage AND MS proc damage by holding off on re-applying CT.

    I'm not disagreeing with your assessment on its worth. I agree, but min-maxing is about that 1%, isn't it?
    Yes it is. Please understand that I am not trying to belittle the theorycrafting efforts of the people here. You guys go to great lengths to argue your PoV and back it up with demonstration and actual data (something that is woefully missing in a lot of threads). I appreciate that, it's part of why I enjoy the rogue community so much.

    For me, min-maxing also is a question of "Is it worth it?". I may be able to gain 1% dps by putting effort and focus into the management of a minor proc mechanic. On the other hand, processing the information of an Affdot or similar addon, might distract me during that critical moment, when I have to kick an important spell, while a voidzone appears under my feet (Omnitron heroic anyone?). I need to get away, and fast, my healers save me, but I lose a few seconds uptime on a target and a few thousand damage that I could have done...for the sake of an increase, that might take a minute of perfect execution now, just to make up for the loss (Not to mention the healer mana I just squandered).
    -== Worgen Rageface makes me laugh ==-

  6. #26
    If Indeed Crimson tempest is a part of the single target rotation and thus almost completely dropping the eviscerate of it i find the spec being completely half arsed.What is the f**** point of find weakness then? buffing white damage and a couple of amubshes//backstabs? Right now on live when i start the sub rotation it feels amazing to put those 1.2 - 1.4 mil eviscerates on the pulls..

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmgewehr86 View Post
    If Indeed Crimson tempest is a part of the single target rotation and thus almost completely dropping the eviscerate of it i find the spec being completely half arsed.What is the f**** point of find weakness then? buffing white damage and a couple of amubshes//backstabs? Right now on live when i start the sub rotation it feels amazing to put those 1.2 - 1.4 mil eviscerates on the pulls..
    The initial damage of CT is still physical, therefore FW benefits CTs. And since the Bleed is dependent on the initial hit, it too benefits from FW.
    -== Worgen Rageface makes me laugh ==-

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