What will be the standard mythic raid composition?

[Masternewt]

With some raid testing already behind us, is there a more clear idea on what the standard raid composition will be for the 20-man mythic raiding? Some time ago it has been suggested it will be 2 tanks / 5 healers, but lately there's also talk about 2 tanks / 4 healers.

Those of you who did some raiding, what do you think? Will 4 healers be the norm (1 per group) or will we go for 5?

Thanks.

[Alvito]

Depends on the group and the fight of course. I doubt it is 5 healers though many 25 mans only go with 4 now, I don't see how cutting 5 healing targets would require an extra healer.

[Sesshou]

2 tanks for most of it, but for healers, 3? You would rarely want 5 in 25hm, and would often go with 4. I don't see 20m taking on average more healers than 25hm did. A lot of world first 25hm stuff was also done with 3 so I think we could see some 2 healing.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

Depends on how mythic they intend mythic to be.

[Deleted]

2 tanks for most of it, but for healers, 3? You would rarely want 5 in 25hm, and would often go with 4. I don't see 20m taking on average more healers than 25hm did. A lot of world first 25hm stuff was also done with 3 so I think we could see some 2 healing.

Depends on the group and the fight of course. I doubt it is 5 healers though many 25 mans only go with 4 now, I don't see how cutting 5 healing targets would require an extra healer.

5 Healers in mythic is going to be standard.. if not, Blizzard will adjust. They cutted 90% of all off heals, changed healing (no smart-smart heal anymore) and adjusted tanks. Its their plan since WoD alpha.

My guess:

2 Tanks
5 Healers

3 melee DPS
10 range DPS

[Sarevokcz]

2 tanks for most of it, but for healers, 3? You would rarely want 5 in 25hm, and would often go with 4. I don't see 20m taking on average more healers than 25hm did. A lot of world first 25hm stuff was also done with 3 so I think we could see some 2 healing.

not if they stick to the healing changes with very little instants and punishing healers for every single move they have to take, also aoe heals not being as good as in MoP. id epxect 4, with some bosses 3, if logistics of the fight allow it.

[Moradim]

With some raid testing already behind us, is there a more clear idea on what the standard raid composition will be for the 20-man mythic raiding? Some time ago it has been suggested it will be 2 tanks / 5 healers, but lately there's also talk about 2 tanks / 4 healers.

Those of you who did some raiding, what do you think? Will 4 healers be the norm (1 per group) or will we go for 5?

Thanks.

tank

tank

healer x 4-5

warlock x 14

you THINK they would learn that noone wants melee dps for a reason, yet they keep designing fights with tons of shit on the ground/cleaves/etc to avoid. it would be cool to see melee being actually desirable for once, and I don't mean for bullshit reasons like smoke bomb on lei shen to bug it, or gorefiends grasp, etc.

[Deleted]

haha 14 warlocks yay!

[WanderingBreezes]

I wanna think Celestalon straight-up said four healers, once.

[IxilaFA]

Depends on the group and the fight of course. I doubt it is 5 healers though many 25 mans only go with 4 now, I don't see how cutting 5 healing targets would require an extra healer.

People only run with 4 healers now because healing Heroic SoO is a joke once you overgear it. Most expansions have inflated healing requirements for the first tier and it is very uncommon for even cutting edge guilds to cut down on healers in the first tier.

2 tanks for most of it, but for healers, 3? You would rarely want 5 in 25hm, and would often go with 4. I don't see 20m taking on average more healers than 25hm did. A lot of world first 25hm stuff was also done with 3 so I think we could see some 2 healing.

Almost no world first 25man H stuff was done with 3 healers. Again, first tier of content is almost always the hardest on healers; it will be next to impossible to underheal stuff when you are trying to clear through content in Blues and are already severely undergeared.

I wanna think Celestalon straight-up said four healers, once.

He said between 4 - 5, some fights may require more, some less. It will be just like it is now. Most guilds I imagine will have 5 main healers, and go up or down as needed for the fight. Cutting edge guilds may try to get away with underhealing so we may see 3 - 4 healers for most world first kills. Most normal guilds though will probably use 5 healers for progression.

I'm thinking 2 tanks (1 DPS with a solid tank offspec)
5 healers
3-5 Melee
7-10 Ranged

It will all depend from fight to fight and guild to guild, as it always has.

[Deleted]

they should really try to make melees equal to rangeds, how is this not a top priority issue?

[IxilaFA]

they should really try to make melees equal to rangeds, how is this not a top priority issue?

They are...already doing that? They are reducing ranged mobility and taking care of some QoL issues for melee (such as boss parrying when you're in front, etc).

Ranged will always be superior to melee because oftentimes Blizzard adds mechanics into fights that require ranged to deal with. There are very few mechanics (Siegecrafter being the only one that comes to mind) that favor stacking melee.

[Moradim]

they should really try to make melees equal to rangeds, how is this not a top priority issue?

the only solution is to give melee top tier damage

if ranged take less damage and do more damage, why the hell bring them? noone ever complains "we have too many ranged!" but "too many melee!" is always a problem.

[WanderingBreezes]

if ranged take less damage and do more damage, why the hell bring them? noone ever complains "we have too many ranged!" but "too many melee!" is always a problem.

This pretty much killed Windwalkers for most of Mists. They never did top damage, had virtually no raid utility, had the most minor offhealing that even an Ele Shaman dropping their basic healing totem could match or beat without losing DPS in any way close to what the Monk would and they had the dreaded, horrific, nightmare situation of being "another melee to burden the raid with." Their tanking stance wasn't accessable so they didn't have the tanking abilities, didn't have "flash heal" to use (thank Thrall that's being addressed in WoD), and basically any big CD their other two specs had access to was simply not there for the DPS spec no matter what.

[rant continues] Unfortunately, we've seen recently they're giving Arms/Fury access to Devastate and various Prot abilities and yet they went out of their way to not only still not give WWs access to tanking stance, they just straight up made DPS Stance flagged to change into a different one depending on your spec, pretty much solidifying that WW won't have jack. Oh, and they took their parry booster away.

[Nzete]

At Blizzcon, they stated that the intended composition was 2 tank with 5 healers.

[Servasus]

My group will be running 1-2 Tanks, 3-5 healers and the rest dps. Most fights will be 2 tanking fights and 4-healable, with some slight variations depending on the fight and how far in prog versus farm you are.

[Sesshou]

People only run with 4 healers now because healing Heroic SoO is a joke once you overgear it. Most expansions have inflated healing requirements for the first tier and it is very uncommon for even cutting edge guilds to cut down on healers in the first tier.

No, people were using 4 healers on a lot of fights to start with so that they could take more dps and they were totally doable with 4. Pretty sure most if not all really early 25hm garrosh kills were 4. I want to say that some guilds even did Siegecrafter with 3 early on (looks like method did if wowprogress got their comp right), but I really doubt many took more than 4. Fights where you would take 5 or more are in the minority.

If anything because it is a joke, people still progressing will take more healers now because they can meet the dps checks still.

Almost no world first 25man H stuff was done with 3 healers. Again, first tier of content is almost always the hardest on healers; it will be next to impossible to underheal stuff when you are trying to clear through content in Blues and are already severely undergeared.

Numerically, 3 healing is very clearly the minority, but some of the certain tier's most significant fights were done with 3 like Spine and I think Rag also.

You're wrong about underhealing. It is the opposite. You have to underheal stuff early on because you are doing the content significantly undergeared and won't make the dps checks if you don't.

[IxilaFA]

No, people were using 4 healers on a lot of fights to start with so that they could take more dps and they were totally doable with 4. Pretty sure most if not all really early 25hm garrosh kills were 4. I want to say that some guilds even did Siegecrafter with 3 early on (looks like method did if wowprogress got their comp right), but I really doubt many took more than 4. Fights where you would take 5 or more are in the minority.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJb1xoOOicM
That's Method's Siegecrafter kill. They used 4 healers. And of course the world first, cutting edge guilds aren't part of this discussion. We're also talking about Heroic SoO, where most of those guilds had insane amounts of gear from prior tiers. The first tier of any expansion is nearly impossible to underheal.

Garrosh took 4 healers because, as a rule, it was pretty much the only fight in all of SoO that was a stringent DPS check and had little healing during most of the fight.

So yes, cutting edge, progression guilds on the final tier of content did underheal some of the encounters. That doesn't do anything to counter what I said about the average guild on the first tier of content.

If anything because it is a joke, people still progressing will take more healers now because they can meet the dps checks still.

Do you even heroic raid, brah? If you can get away with less healers, you will get away with less healers. Most guilds still progressing right now probably have problems meeting the DPS checks, so they can't overheal the fights anyways. Heroic SoO is probably the first raid instance I've done in a long time that is a ridiculously boring instance to heal, because of the type of damage that goes out and the fact that many raid cooldowns can handle the damage just as well as a healer can.

Numerically, 3 healing is very clearly the minority, but some of the certain tier's most significant fights were done with 3 like Spine and I think Rag also.

You're wrong about underhealing. It is the opposite. You have to underheal stuff early on because you are doing the content significantly undergeared and won't make the dps checks if you don't.

Yes, some fights might take 3 healing. I said almost no 25man Heroic stuff. Did you even notice that? Nothing in SoO world first was 3 healed (as far as I can recall). So maybe Spine and Rag, IDK, don't really feel like looking those up. But if they did, they're certainly in the minority.

And guilds that are on the cusp of progression will always try to underheal things. The fact is, though, in the opening tier of content, you can't cut as many healers as you'd like. In the first tier of WoD, with all the nerfs coming to healer power and the fact that they'll be undergeared, I would be very, very surprised if it's possible to two heal anything. Maybe some crazy guild like Method could do it, but your average guild will not be able to.

[Darkfriend]

1-2 tanks 3-4 healers 15-17 DPS.