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  1. #241
    For PVP affliction will still be fine and have R1 viable comps but will be more idiot proof to play for beginners. Destro will be basically the same as it is now as long as the burst is comparable with the exception of missing Fel flame "which is huge actually". Demo could actually work but having shadow bolt have the same cast time as chaos bolt but with half the damage makes the spec useless in caster form. A 2 second base cast would fix that but they have no plans for such a thing. Leads me to believe they haven't tested Demo much in a pvp setting.

    All in all losing Fel flame seems to be the main problem for lock pvp in general it seems. Well from my observation at least. So dark days could be a real thing. From a pvp perspective that is.
    Last edited by Lucidious; 2014-08-21 at 02:31 AM.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucidious View Post
    For PVP affliction will still be fine and have R1 viable comps but will be more idiot proof to play for beginners. Destro will be basically the same as it is now as long as the burst is comparable with the exception of missing Fel flame "which is huge actually". Demo could actually work but having shadow bolt have the same cast time as chaos bolt but with half the damage makes the spec useless in caster form. A 2 second base cast would fix that but they have no plans for such a thing. Leads me to believe they haven't tested Demo much in a pvp setting.

    All in all losing Fel flame seems to be the main problem for lock pvp in general it seems. Well from my observation at least. So dark days could be a real thing. From a pvp perspective that is.
    I will be very sad if Blizzard balance PvP around little arena boxes. And I say that as a multiple gladiator warlock.

    Destro is totally immobile. Aff has no sustainability without a pet healer. Demo suffers from the same fate as aff, plus the added burden of having a melee pet that moves painfully slow and has less utility than a felhunter.

  3. #243
    Field Marshal Rogarr's Avatar
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    I would like it, if people got away from "I miss Felflame, plz give it back" and the "Dmg will be fine" posts.

    OK FF gone sucks hard, for affli and destro, but try to get around with it, they wont change it. See it as blizzard are the parents, we are the kids. They seem to have a reason they cut that from us, now we cry allot but it will not change. So get along with it as best as you can.

    I found demo quite nice, a bit of personal skill was cuttet but not so hard as on affli or even destro. I always played WL because it was a bit harder to master it out, more buttons to press, more actions to calculate to get good results. They take that away and I really don't like it. But I have a nice raiding guild and will stay WL even so.

    Maybe we should start getting more construktive Feedback on the Specs, whats wrong there, why some feel bland or boring and how to fix it... WITHOUT FF!!! ..

    90% off all those posts contain. "and all this could be fixed with giving us FF back". They don't even read that any more I think. Try to imagine other things instead. Some interesting Proc for Affli or key mechanic as like with Destro to. (like instant Fireballs/Frostmageprocs for Immolate etc pp?)

    Give them well explained feedback. Some of you tried, but the post were desolatet from both blizzard and the WL community. I myself postet quite a few thinks that grudged me about beta WL.

    So stop whining and working everybody alone, try to work together, be reasonable.

    Brusalk at least got heared with his Feedback, which was nice to read.

    I would like to see a rather hard/complex Affli or Demo spec that gives a bit abouve average dmg when mastered, than any brainless OP Superspec I could play while sleeping one eye open and solving differential equations on my 2nd screen.

    PS: sorry for my engl.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogarr View Post
    See it as blizzard are the parents, we are the kids. They seem to have a reason they cut that from us, now we cry allot but it will not change. So get along with it as best as you can.
    Dunno, but I wouldn't say that Blizzard is in a "parenting" position to us.
    a) Parents have much wider and deeper experience than children. Not true in Warcraft. We know how the classes play better than they do. They spend all they writing code, we spend all day playing the class, so there you go
    b) Children do not pay their parents for services.
    c) Parents usually love their children. Would you say that Blizzard loves us?

  5. #245
    High Overlord Slashkill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogarr View Post
    -snip- Try to imagine other things instead. Some interesting Proc for Affli or key mechanic as like with Destro to. (like instant Fireballs/Frostmageprocs for Immolate etc pp?)

    -snip-
    1) Sudden Death mechanic - Shadowburn proc from Immo ticks + give it 20% mana refund back (taking it away in the first place was one of the most retarded things ever made).
    2) Fel Blast - a fel lightning like Blood Elven Golems use, little or no dmg + ember gen + immo refreshment - gives us more time and resources to cast stuff when we plant ourselves.
    3) Backdraft rework - allows us to cast 3 Inci or 1 CB on the move, 20%-15%-10% casting speed increase (per stack, 20% max/3stacks max). CD on Conflagrate increased to compensate, damage adjusted to not be a loss/be a minor loss on stationary fights.

    These are just a few of those ideas I came up with while sitting at work trying to spend time quicker.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    Then again the mantra nowadays is to be so open-minded that your brain falls out, and to scorn conservative moral opinions as a modern-day heresy.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogarr View Post
    90% off all those posts contain. "and all this could be fixed with giving us FF back". They don't even read that any more I think. Try to imagine other things instead. Some interesting Proc for Affli or key mechanic as like with Destro to. (like instant Fireballs/Frostmageprocs for Immolate etc pp?)
    The problem with this is that we seem to be past the point in which we will be seeing new mechanics and into the number tuning, So bringing back a spell we already had and we know works seems like the best shot we have right now.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Slashkill View Post
    1) Sudden Death mechanic - Shadowburn proc from Immo ticks + give it 20% mana refund back (taking it away in the first place was one of the most retarded things ever made).
    2) Fel Blast - a fel lightning like Blood Elven Golems use, little or no dmg + ember gen + immo refreshment - gives us more time and resources to cast stuff when we plant ourselves.
    3) Backdraft rework - allows us to cast 3 Inci or 1 CB on the move, 20%-15%-10% casting speed increase (per stack, 20% max/3stacks max). CD on Conflagrate increased to compensate, damage adjusted to not be a loss/be a minor loss on stationary fights.

    These are just a few of those ideas I came up with while sitting at work trying to spend time quicker.
    I like your idea for backdraft. Kjc could be changed for destro to do that. I think that would be very nice and would allow for much better control during movement phases.

  8. #248
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aakarshan View Post
    I've been playing my warlock extensively in PvP and PvE on beta - as well as other classes - and honestly...I really have to say, fundamentally warlocks are just going to be in a god awful place next expansion.

    I don't mean the numbers. Numbers don't mean shit. Numbers can be fine-tuned, the worst class rotationally can pull tons of dps (and this has been the case in the past, remember enhancement shamans using caster weapons?)
    It's not just an "every class" thing, warlocks in particular feel gutted. By comparison, we went from one of the most key-abundant classes to one of the more barren. I can comfortably fit all of my spells and my PvE macros onto my bars with just `-= and Q-[ keys, and that is deeply troubling. I didn't recognize my eight-year main in MoP, but I went with it and rolled with the punches and I ended up enjoying it. This time around, it's like I'm looking at half of the MoP remake and they forgot to put in my other 5+ spells and just called it a day anyway.

    Affliction without DoT snapshotting isn't affliction. It's even more idiot-friendly than destruction is now. I frankly hated what MoP did to affliction and have no idea why they had to screw with what wasn't in any way broken, but this is just terrible design. We need something to actually give the class some flavor because as it is, I could fall asleep playing affliction as I watch an abundance of 3-4k crits pop up on my screen lazily as I maintain DoTs and spam my channeled filler.

    Destruction is the new Arcane Mage of PvE. There are still nuances, but sitting there being a flame-spewing turret with next to no mobility and a PvE rotation that consists of a whopping 4-5 buttons is absolutely frustrating for someone who loved this class because of its complexity.

    Demonology is still possibly the worst-designed remake, but at least it isn't idiot-proofed. The demonic fury design is terrible but at least it hasn't really changed a whole lot from a surface PoV from the way it is in MoP. I pray to the blizzard gods that Demonology is top for raiding; if not, I may just play it anyway because otherwise I'm going to end up despising this half-assed class and rerolling to something that doesn't get gutted and remade every expansion.
    Movement is going to make me cry so much. I love destro, I always have, and being a red arcane mages is going to be balls. Then again I just like setting things alight... Either way what could we really do to change our movement short of ff, which is more of a cruch but works, or change kjc to something with regenerating charges that get consumed while we move. A passive with like 5 charges regenning 1 every 12 seconds while we stand still and cast. Make it only work for immolation and incinerate and we have a winning option for movement fights and pvp since in most cases in pvp we don't be needing to run around for more than like 8 or so seconds aside from crazy movement periods which frankly no talent should be able to account for.
    He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

  9. #249
    More likely that the game is headed to dark times

    Pretty soon theyll put gear on the in game store...

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogarr View Post
    I would like it, if people got away from "I miss Felflame, plz give it back" and the "Dmg will be fine" posts.

    OK FF gone sucks hard, for affli and destro, but try to get around with it, they wont change it. See it as blizzard are the parents, we are the kids. They seem to have a reason they cut that from us, now we cry allot but it will not change. So get along with it as best as you can.

    I found demo quite nice, a bit of personal skill was cuttet but not so hard as on affli or even destro. I always played WL because it was a bit harder to master it out, more buttons to press, more actions to calculate to get good results. They take that away and I really don't like it. But I have a nice raiding guild and will stay WL even so.

    Maybe we should start getting more construktive Feedback on the Specs, whats wrong there, why some feel bland or boring and how to fix it... WITHOUT FF!!! ..

    90% off all those posts contain. "and all this could be fixed with giving us FF back". They don't even read that any more I think. Try to imagine other things instead. Some interesting Proc for Affli or key mechanic as like with Destro to. (like instant Fireballs/Frostmageprocs for Immolate etc pp?)

    Give them well explained feedback. Some of you tried, but the post were desolatet from both blizzard and the WL community. I myself postet quite a few thinks that grudged me about beta WL.

    So stop whining and working everybody alone, try to work together, be reasonable.

    Brusalk at least got heared with his Feedback, which was nice to read.

    I would like to see a rather hard/complex Affli or Demo spec that gives a bit abouve average dmg when mastered, than any brainless OP Superspec I could play while sleeping one eye open and solving differential equations on my 2nd screen.

    PS: sorry for my engl.
    Our job is not to "solve" issues, but to bring them up. Coming up with ideas to solve issues isn't actually a challenge for them, it's that we need to convince them and articulate what the issue is. So, pointing out the loss of fel flame and why that results in an issue from our perspective IS constructive. Ultimately we're not pining for a specific spell, we're asking for a solution to these issues:
    1. something to do/spam while moving beyond a single 12 sec cd instant, since fights in PVE increasingly and consistently require unplanned movement sifnicantly more often than KJC can mitigate.
    2. a direct damage spell in PvP not subject to lockout to help kill totems, deal with spell reflect, allow for some small measure of pressure while trying to kite, etc...


    You seem to want people to move on to different arguments, but I'm personally fine continuing to try to convince Blizzard and others of my (and others') view. I'm not deterred by the fact that they haven't responded YET, but rather than just not talk about it I'm going to continue to raise issues I see.

    don't read the posts if they bother you so much. best advice i can give you.

  11. #251
    Titan Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fguru482 View Post
    More likely that the game is headed to dark times

    Pretty soon theyll put gear on the in game store...
    The game is fine. With the exception of the butchering of certain warlock mechanics, I'm incredibly stoked for this expansion.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanattos View Post
    I like your idea for backdraft. Kjc could be changed for destro to do that. I think that would be very nice and would allow for much better control during movement phases.
    I've been thinking about something like that, but isn't be related to Backdraft. Something like a charge system for KJC instead of cooldown mechanic or a passive that allows casting while at all times.

    Basically, the idea is to allow Warlocks to cast a certain amount of spells while moving per minute, but with a mechanic that allow the Warlock to choose when and how many to cast. Let me try to give a few details to make things clear:

    - With KJC talent, we would receive a stacking debuff (so that there's no way to remove it deliberaly) every few seconds. For example, every 10 seconds, we get 1 stack of KJC.
    - There would be a limit for this debuff. For example, 10 charges.
    - Every casting spell could use a specific amount of these these debuffs as a cost to cast on the move. A few examples could be: Incinerate consumes 2 charges; Immolate 1; Chaos Bolt 4; etc.

    I think something like this would be great. It would allow us to have that flexibility we really need, but creating an explicit restriction to how many times we can use.

    Buffs that allow us to cast while moving a few seconds are just bad. As soon as the buff drops, if you haven't finished the spell yet, it gets interrupted. It's better when there's a clear amount of spells that can be cast while moving.

    Also, something should be done about AV and MF. Devs seems to be using the fact Warlocks got a load of changes in MoP to ignore these talents. They're not broken but are just as interesting and game-changing as a talent that gives "5% more Dmg to your Haunt, Chaos Bolt or Soulfire".

  13. #253
    A lot of classes are at this rate. Not just Warlocks.

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