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  1. #561
    Scarab Lord Conscious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    THE SKY IS FALLING ERMAHGERD!

    Very optimistic about what WoD will do for this game.
    I remember that same being said about Mists after Cataclysm.

    Hey and this expansion has a lot less content. Should do wonders.
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  2. #562
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    No, that is not why I used this example.
    I think that his music is generally considered to be bad among users on this forum.
    Yet he has an incredible amount of fans.

    It shows that there is no correlation between content quality and the amount of people that are willing to buy your product.
    I could've used other examples, like any Michael Bay film But this one is more obvious.
    It also tells us that content quality is highly subjective and that some people might absolutely love the content while others think it's the worst thing since WW2.
    You are confusing not being part of the target audience with quality.

    Clearly his target audience view his work as a quality product as do those that go to see Transformers movies. It is nonsense to suggest that people in their millions will buy a poor quality product. Whilst the prepubescent girls are not renowned for looking for world class musicians who write deep and meaningful songs in their music and it is certainly not to my taste but the fact of the matter is that Bieber is successful on merit. However due the fact that children grow up rather quickly and their tastes in music change with it the manufactured boy band/artist is rather short lived and not really comparable to the MMO market.

    I must confess that it is slightly amusing that you use these examples that people will buy anything regardless of quality but dismiss that they might stop buying a product due to a drop in perceived quality.

  3. #563
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I have to disagree with you due to Chinese licensing laws the monetary value of a Chinese sub is considerably less than that of a Western one to Blizzard some estimates have put this at between four and five times less. It makes no sense for Blizzard to focus on a market that they have no direct control over and makes less money than the western market.
    That doesn't make sense. There's no reason not to appeal to a broader audience. They've already captured a huge chunk of the Chinese audience with TBC, Wrath and Cata. WoW helped paved the way for broad MMO appeal in China. Now there's much more competition there, and Blizzard is losing that foothold. I don't think it was out of ignorance that Blizzard decided to focus an expansion on Pandaria. Making 'less money' doesn't matter considering what makes WoW grand to the public eye is that global number of subscribers. It's how WoW markets itself in general, and it's what people talk about more than the $billions they make from any given continent.

    Also if they were truly intent on focussing on the Chinese market it would have made sense to hire voice actors who had Chinese rather Japanese accents and not portray them a lazy western stereotype.
    You realize that China has its own localization right?

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    I remember that same being said about Mists after Cataclysm.

    Hey and this expansion has a lot less content. Should do wonders.
    See while other people at blizzcon saw the announcement as "we're releasing no new content!" I saw it as "We're looking to focus and improve on the base quality of our game by updating the most important aspects of the game we've been neglecting to put in new shiny bullshit to keep people with short attention spans happy!"

    I never understand what constitutes more or less content, the bulk of every expansions content comes base line and this expansion has no less than those. So what less content does it have?

    No new class, no new race, mmk that's like... not even real content its just a shiny toy they put in peoples faces to get them excited. Hmm what else then...

    There's still new raids so that's not it.
    There's still new dungeons so that's not it.
    There's still a new continent with all the stuff that comes with that so that's not it...
    Still new pvp things so that's not it...
    Class redesigns as per usual that's not it...
    Completely remaking the character models which is like making 10+ new races so that's not it...
    New NPC models for most enemy mobs in the new zone so that's not it...

    I got nothing, I can't figure out what tangible content is missing besides worthless fluff like new race / class.
    Last edited by Baconeggcheese; 2014-08-07 at 06:05 PM.

  5. #565
    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    I remember that same being said about Mists after Cataclysm.
    Uhh, right. And there was a huge spike in subscribers. So... what?

  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    That doesn't make sense. There's no reason not to appeal to a broader audience. They've already captured a huge chunk of the Chinese audience with TBC, Wrath and Cata. WoW helped paved the way for broad MMO appeal in China. Now there's much more competition there, and Blizzard is losing that foothold. I don't think it was out of ignorance that Blizzard decided to focus an expansion on Pandaria. Making 'less money' doesn't matter considering what makes WoW grand to the public eye is that global number of subscribers. It's how WoW markets itself in general, and it's what people talk about more than the $billions they make from any given continent.



    You realize that China has its own localization right?
    What doesn't make sense? It is fact that Blizzard receive much less revenue per account from Chinese players it is also a fact that Chinese law prohibits them operating WOW in China. Expansions represent a huge investment in terms of time and money they are not going spend this time and money on a section of the player base they have no direct contact with and they receive less money from. Netease reported paying roughly $60million to Blizzard in royalties for operating WOW last year by contrast Blizzard's total WOW income was $912million. It is complete nonsense to suggest that Blizzard are motivated by subscriber numbers rather than income why haven't reduced the sub to $5 if this is the case it would much cheaper than developing a whole expansion and likely to yield more subscribers.

    I must have imagined the complaints from Chinese players regarding these issues. I doubt any amount of localisation would remove the lazy stereotypes.

  7. #567
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Interesting seeing as all the Blues kept talking about was the Alliance-Horde conflict and how it effected Pandaria.
    Majority of the playerbase doesn't even go to forums or twitter. Blue posts aren't marketting, and aren't what I'm talking about.

    I see you are rather new to online communities.
    Because people will whine and they will criticize everything, no matter what one does.
    It's one of the best things a person said on the MtG forum: "WotC could put 100 dollar bills in boosters and people would complain about the way they were folded."
    I'm not talking about the western online community. The entire theme was something that was criticized by Chinese players. Again, not as a main factor, but a contributing factor. Other criticisms included lack of social/community features in the game, compared to games like Age of Wushu that were coming out at the time that promoted much more co-op centric gameplay. The issues run much deeper than a surface level understanding of Chinese culture. I do believe that Blizzard attempted to pull a 'Spaghetti Western', making their version of Asian-inspired material to more familiarize broad appeal to Chinese players and Western WoW players alike. They missed the point completely though, and it didn't help bring in waves of new players as they would have expected, mostly because the appeal for Chinese culture was never really warranted in the East in the first place. Again, it was criticized by Chinese players for being too much of a Western take on Chinese culture.

    Are you complaining about the content or the cover from the box?
    TBC also had a blood elf and draenei on the cover.. I don't see you complaining over that, even when the majority of the lore was about other stuff.
    You're confusing observation with personal preference. Whatever you think I'm saying, I think you need to re-read with a broader field of view. None of these are complaints, all of these are observations of MoP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    What doesn't make sense? It is fact that Blizzard receive much less revenue per account from Chinese players it is also a fact that Chinese law prohibits them operating WOW in China. Expansions represent a huge investment in terms of time and money they are not going spend this time and money on a section of the player base they have no direct contact with and they receive less money from.
    Have you never asked yourself why Blizzard chose Pandaria as expansion material? We could have had an Alliance/Horde war involving Garrosh obtaining the Heart of Y'shaarj without Pandaria entirely. Blizzard even planned Pandaren for TBC, a typical Warcraft themed expansion.

    There's no way to prove this observation either way. If you don't agree with what I'm saying, that's absolutely fine. The fact is, they spent time and resources developing an entire culture not typically familiar to Warcraft.

    Netease reported paying roughly $60million to Blizzard in royalties for operating WOW last year by contrast Blizzard's total WOW income was $912million. It is complete nonsense to suggest that Blizzard are motivated by subscriber numbers rather than income why haven't reduced the sub to $5 if this is the case it would much cheaper than developing a whole expansion and likely to yield more subscribers.
    Netease's other games were reported to have growth in sales while WoW was in decline. Blizzard uses subscriber numbers in public shareholder meetings. They could just as easily use raw monetary figures with no mentions of subs around the world. I wouldn't say they are motivated by subscriber numbers, but they are interested in opening up to a broader audience with the Warcraft franchise. It's obvious to me that MoP was their attempt for broader (overseas) appeal, even if you may not share this opinion.

    What Blizzard didn't anticipate was the general shift in gaming culture in China, and the fact that MoP's themes weren't exactly appealing to Chinese players to begin with. What is Blizzard's reaction to this? Warlords, which takes place on familiar territory with familiar characters in a fresh new light.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2014-08-07 at 06:58 PM.

  8. #568
    The Lightbringer Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niker99 View Post
    wildstar 200k subs and can push out big patches each month and got a raid comin in 2 months again, yeh. if they really have 200k subs like u say Blizzard is really pathetic that cant push out any content waht so ever in 13-14 months with all the subs + other services + mounts
    Big patches of what? Bug fixes? Not many. Content they added was basically a quest hub. I waited 6 weeks for them to do *anything* with engineer bots. They added new costumes instead.
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  9. #569
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Have you never asked yourself why Blizzard chose Pandaria as expansion material? We could have had an Alliance/Horde war involving Garrosh obtaining the Heart of Y'shaarj without Pandaria entirely. Blizzard even planned Pandaren for TBC, a typical Warcraft themed expansion.

    There's no way to prove this observation either way. If you don't agree with what I'm saying, that's absolutely fine. The fact is, they spent time and resources developing an entire culture not typically familiar to Warcraft.
    According to Blizzard it was because Pandaren had been the most requested race throughout the history of the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Netease's other games were reported to have growth in sales while WoW was in decline. Blizzard uses subscriber numbers in public shareholder meetings. They could just as easily use raw monetary figures with no mentions of subs around the world. I wouldn't say they are motivated by subscriber numbers, but they are interested in opening up to a broader audience with the Warcraft franchise. It's obvious to me that MoP was their attempt for broader appeal, even if you may not share this opinion.
    No doubt they are interested in opening WOW up to a broader audience but why would they spend millions of dollars catering their product to market that not only are they not actually allowed to operate in but they receive four to five times less per customer in terms of income? And not only that people that this expansion is supposedly aimed at do not even pay for it.

  10. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    No doubt they are interested in opening WOW up to a broader audience but why would they spend millions of dollars catering their product to market that not only are they not actually allowed to operate in but they receive four to five times less per customer in terms of income? And not only that people that this expansion is supposedly aimed at do not even pay for it.
    Does it matter what the answer is? The fact is they already did do that, and what we have is Mists of Pandaria. We wouldn't be having this discussion if it were any other familiar themed Alliance/Horde expansion involving Garrosh as an end boss. It could have taken place on another island, and the lore would work out just the same in the end.

    Bottom line is no matter what expansion they release, the gameplay is still Warcraft gameplay. People will play it regardless, and that's why we still have a constant ~7m player base still active. Arguably, the static gameplay is also a factor in driving people away.

    The Pandarens would have appealed to is both Western audience who asked for them, and potentially for Chinese players. But we didn't need a full Pandaria expansion to have Pandarens, as evidenced by their plans in TBC. The Wandering Isle is all you need to make sense out of Pandarens. Exploring Pandaria and Blizzard having delved into its culture is something else entirely.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2014-08-07 at 07:35 PM.

  11. #571
    Scarab Lord Conscious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerchunk View Post
    Uhh, right. And there was a huge spike in subscribers. So... what?
    For all of about five seconds.

    And now we're here...

    So there's that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    Big patches of what? Bug fixes? Not many. Content they added was basically a quest hub. I waited 6 weeks for them to do *anything* with engineer bots. They added new costumes instead.
    It's not even a major patch silly. They're adding content in minor patches. Something this game struggles to do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Exbishop View Post
    I say its because its been a years since that last patch..... They need to put in filler content between there major patches, or else people gonna get bored and unsubscribe. Even if its like call of the crusade, with a mini raid, or something like that. I'm not really surprised. Its not dyeing or dead, it is still more subs then most games to be honest. They just need to keep us entertained.
    At one point during Wrath they had it. And then for some reason they said Wrath was all wrong, and they didn't want to do just about anything that was done in Wrath, despite it's major success.

    Yet again, here we are.
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  12. #572
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Doesn't it strike you as odd that if this were true there would be hundreds if not thousands of Justin Biebers?
    Have you ever listened to pop Music? It's all rubbish. So yes there are thousands of musicians like that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dvaldin View Post
    I'm sure the new expansion will be fun, but not that optimistic that a massive amount of veterans are suddenly going to decide to resubscribe. WoW began with five years of escalating subscriptions and the last five years of steadily declining subscriptions to where the number is now about half of what WoW had at its peak. And, you know, I'm sure there are many reasons for it. Game age, player age, the ability to level faster (and 90 boost), etc.
    Odds are doubtful many of us will comeback. WoD is less about what is offered and more about what is removed. I like the general concept of going back and revisiting Warcraft 1&2, but the way they are doing it, and removing flying from new content, makes it feel like a cheap gimmick. Honestly I'm MMO burned out, if WOW keeps Sucking I'm not really going to play any of them, although I will encourage the new guys. With the hope someone can save the genre. As for companies Blizzard and Activision will never get another cent from me.

  13. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    Big patches of what? Bug fixes? Not many. Content they added was basically a quest hub. I waited 6 weeks for them to do *anything* with engineer bots. They added new costumes instead.
    Last month we were given two questing hubs, and a bunch of new stuff items. This month was a PVP centered drop ... If Wildstar keeps this up for the 16 months they said .. that game is worth the sub just for the new content.

  14. #574
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    See while other people at blizzcon saw the announcement as "we're releasing no new content!" I saw it as "We're looking to focus and improve on the base quality of our game by updating the most important aspects of the game we've been neglecting to put in new shiny bullshit to keep people with short attention spans happy!"

    I never understand what constitutes more or less content, the bulk of every expansions content comes base line and this expansion has no less than those. So what less content does it have?

    No new class, no new race, mmk that's like... not even real content its just a shiny toy they put in peoples faces to get them excited. Hmm what else then...

    There's still new raids so that's not it.
    There's still new dungeons so that's not it.
    There's still a new continent with all the stuff that comes with that so that's not it...
    Still new pvp things so that's not it...
    Class redesigns as per usual that's not it...
    Completely remaking the character models which is like making 10+ new races so that's not it...
    New NPC models for most enemy mobs in the new zone so that's not it...

    I got nothing, I can't figure out what tangible content is missing besides worthless fluff like new race / class.
    No:
    Raid content should be introduced on a regular basis, with out additional cost to raid.
    As with Raids, they should come out at regular intervals, with out additional cost.
    New PVP zones should be updated regularly, with out additional cost.
    Class redesigns effect everyone even people not buying the expansion.
    Character models redesigns effect everyone even people not buying the expansion.
    -
    Yes:
    New Map Server, and raised Level, is important for a New Expansion.
    Garrisons = personal customizable quest hub. New not worth an Expansion but as a feature cool.


    What other Expansions Offered not found in WoD or in free content updates.

    TBC = Flying, Races
    Wrath = Hero Class
    Cat = Races, Old World Flying
    MoP =Race and Class

    Free content Updates have always included Raids, Dungeons, Class Changes, Art Updates, and even new Zones.

    ---
    Example someone who has never purchased an Expansion, but has played since vanilla what would they have access to? BTW have a friend in this boat. I almost fell out of my chair when I found out he has never upgraded his account.
    Last edited by Gothicshark; 2014-08-08 at 01:37 AM.

  15. #575
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Don't see how this is surprising the game is old like super fucking old, People are going to get bored of it. Doing the same shit for years and years is bound to take It's toll lol

  16. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    What other Expansions Offered not found in WoD or in free content updates.

    TBC = Flying, Races
    Wrath = Hero Class
    Cat = Races, Old World Flying
    MoP =Race and Class
    So effectively nothing as far as content is concerned is your list of things other expansions offered that this doesn't.

    Flying is convenience, not real content.
    More races are fun fluff and don't make up the bulk of content in an expansion
    A new class is fun fluff that doesn't make up the bulk of content in an expansion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Free content Updates have always included Raids, Dungeons, Class Changes, Art Updates, and even new Zones.
    Nonononono

    You seem to be missing something here, that shit came with the expansion you bought that it was relevant for. You didn't get that shit baseline just for buying the game.

    When you bought MoP, you bought T14 through 16, all the dungeons and pvp content that went out during MoP. You can't do T14 - 16 without buying MoP, because that shit came with.

    You seem to be misunderstanding that major content patches are part of an expansion.

  17. #577
    The Lightbringer Kickbuttmario's Avatar
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    You people are strange. There is more competition, more f2p MMOs, more options, and possibly the idea that other people might like these other MMOs than WoW. Then there is product life cycle.

    I mean, come the fuck on. It doesn't take a genius that the game will always be losing subs, regardless of design choices or whether they remove this or that or add that.
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  18. #578
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    So effectively nothing as far as content is concerned is your list of things other expansions offered that this doesn't.

    Flying is convenience, not real content.
    More races are fun fluff and don't make up the bulk of content in an expansion
    A new class is fun fluff that doesn't make up the bulk of content in an expansion.



    Nonononono

    You seem to be missing something here, that shit came with the expansion you bought that it was relevant for. You didn't get that shit baseline just for buying the game.

    When you bought MoP, you bought T14 through 16, all the dungeons and pvp content that went out during MoP. You can't do T14 - 16 without buying MoP, because that shit came with.

    You seem to be misunderstanding that major content patches are part of an expansion.
    http://www.wowhead.com/zone=3428/temple-of-ahnqiraj
    http://www.wowhead.com/zone=2677
    http://www.wowwiki.com/Naxxramas_%28original%29

    I have to disagree with you a lot, during Vanilla several raids were added as free content patches, no expansions required. You don't need the current expansion to enjoy class changes, someone with a vanilla copy of the game has the same class updates and character model changes as the person who buys the expansion. Also I should point out most people don't Raid. So as a feature of new expansions it only effects a small number of players.

  19. #579
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    http://www.wowhead.com/zone=3428/temple-of-ahnqiraj
    http://www.wowhead.com/zone=2677
    http://www.wowwiki.com/Naxxramas_%28original%29

    I have to disagree with you a lot, during Vanilla several raids were added as free content patches, no expansions required. You don't need the current expansion to enjoy class changes, someone with a vanilla copy of the game has the same class updates and character model changes as the person who buys the expansion. Also I should point out most people don't Raid. So as a feature of new expansions it only effects a small number of players.
    uh... those 2 raids were part of vanilla... which is something you purchased... no different than several tiers every expansion thus... I don't understand how you don't understand that. Those content patches were something you purchased when you purchased vanilla, they just don't put it out all at once for obvious reasons.

    The class overhauls are not even mildly functional at lower levels, classes are missing core components etc. If you find that enjoyable that's all you. There's a reason that you don't just buy vanilla these days though, you buy every single xpac all the way up to the current one with a purchase without them charging you for those xpacs because this game is about current content.

    The model changes are obviously going in, but they're again not the bulk of the content. It's again fluff like a new race would be.


    Even if it were true that "most people don't raid" in any of the difficulties, you act as though they don't put out an entire continents worth of questing zones + the ones that come out later in the xpac like isle of thunder or timeless isle which again were things you bought when you bought the expansion.

    Realistically a majority of the community raids in some way shape or form, you're delusional if you think otherwise. People who do LFR or flex are still experiencing that new raid content even if its in a massively dumbed down form.

  20. #580
    Scarab Lord Conscious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-aix View Post
    Don't see how this is surprising the game is old like super fucking old, People are going to get bored of it. Doing the same shit for years and years is bound to take It's toll lol
    That kind of talk is heresy. We still have X more subs than anyone else, obviously it's not old OR boring!

    /sarcasm

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    I have to disagree with you a lot, during Vanilla several raids were added as free content patches, no expansions required. You don't need the current expansion to enjoy class changes, someone with a vanilla copy of the game has the same class updates and character model changes as the person who buys the expansion. Also I should point out most people don't Raid. So as a feature of new expansions it only effects a small number of players.
    This. A lot of people don't realize that content has tapered off in recent years. Comparatively Vanilla was chalk full of additions.
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