Cloak and Dagger remains a slap in the face.

[ymirsson]

I meant it's almost all things BoS was at a point.

[Verain]

Well, he's saying it would be energy free but with a cooldown. Burst of speed is supposed to make us trade offense for time on target, shadow step instantly repositions the rogue but has a cooldown, this one would have a cooldown and basically be a CC removal of certain CC. I don't think he just meant it as a burst of speed clone, any more than intervene is a charge clone.

[Artorius]

Yeah, energy free.

No movement speed increase, would work like freedom or Icebound fortitude.

We would end with a movement impairing immunity, ShS and BoS. Three different things which modifies how the rogue move himself in different ways.

Edit: But people would complain about OP unstoppable Shadow Dance with it and Cloak active at the same time.
Whatever, make them share a CD or impossible to have both up...

[Lubricious]

Yeah, energy free.

No movement speed increase, would work like freedom or Icebound fortitude.

We would end with a movement impairing immunity, SS and BoS. Three different things which modifies how the rogue movement himself in different ways.

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Giving up SS or BoS would be a tough call, but I could see it being worthwhile in it's own way. Isn't that how it's supposed to work? Three options and you wish you had all of them.

[mimedogg]

C&D range needs to be reduced to 20 yards and Shiv should be added to the list of abilities that cause you to reappear behind your target.

Sprint CD needs to be reduced to 30 secs.

[Packing an i5]

cloak and dagger should be replaced with a self freedom on a short cooldown to remove root effects or another passive that reduces the duration of all movement impairing effects both roots and slows by 50%

there is no way to buff the core concept behind it to be on par with Sstep or Burst of speed and No I do not want an entire Tier copying the first warrior tier in which every talent just modifies shadow step.

I loved the original idea of Bos removing a root at the cost of energy but the cost was too great and you did not retain the speed bonus. I would welcome a new BOS type talent that removes roots on a short cooldown or energy cost of about 45 energy.

I was also a big fan of the Hit and Run Idea the devs hated that never made it to the Live Game.

[Tyrgannus]

Rogues are usually a slap in the face until last raid tier. This is coming from someone whose first main was a rogue and is currently focusing on my rogue

[Verain]

C&D range needs to be reduced to 20 yards and Shiv should be added to the list of abilities that cause you to reappear behind your target.

Sprint CD needs to be reduced to 30 secs.

If you just added shiv, you basically have a better version of step. I mean, not quite, but close.

[Kuntantee]

Cool it with the attitude. Now.

You should cool with that edgy attitude. Nothing disrespectful or aggressive with that post.


How about this:

Teleports the rogue behind target and vanishes him (not usual vanish, like priests) for 3 second with 30(45 or 1 min depending on how OP it is) second cd? Also Removes root effect.

A bit OP but hey.

[Warstar]

Cloak and dagger indeed has a very nice use to it... when you're going around killing low level stuff glyphing the reduced CD on stealth + shadow focus + cloak and dagger lets you bounce around like a ninja and kill everything woo! It's really fun but aside from a practical max level current content use it's worthless.

The biggest fault of cloak and dagger really is the fact that it's only usable in stealth. BoS and Shadow Step are two similar abilities that have the same function but do it in a different way. Cloak and Dagger and shadow step are the same ability but one you can use all the time and the other you get to use once in a fight. In pve content you engage the boss and that's it. Once the boss has started and you get of your opening ambush you will never get to use CnD again where as you definitely would be getting some use out of shadow step or BoS many times during the fight. PvP sure you can get some random restealths here and there but really being able to shadow step in combat is so very much more useful.

When it comes to out movement tier cloak and dagger is a redundant ability with shadow step that functions the same way but with a huge limitation. They seriously need to scrap that talent and come up with a 3rd one that does something different.

Was it really that over powered to let it function with shadow dance?

[Gnu]

There was too much whining since it was much harder for some players to counter shadow dance when CnD was working with ShD.

As for replacing the talent by something useful, take your pick from the points below:

- "we are too far ahead in the Beta to re-work talents"
- "1 or 2 combat rogues were using it in arena"
- "rogues are fine and we don't want to change what's working"
- "we don't hate rogues, but really we can't be bothered listening to your feedback on one broken talent that hasn't been used by anyone for an entire expansion except for the first few months. Oh and don't worry about the fact that we're giving Faerie fire to all players and that hunters will be able to find you in the new PvP zone while shooting you in the face from stealth (yeah we gave them Subterfuge because you can't have it but they can"

(yeah I am not happy)

[Packing an i5]

CND should be moved to tier 1 and replace shadow focus as Tziva suggested. In its place should be a self freedom or a passive that reduces the time spent in roots considerably.( the old fleet footed from the wotlk assassination tree reduced time spent in roots and snares by 35% on top of increasing movement speed, it wasnt that good so it should be higher and replace cnd on the tier it sits on now)

Blizz will never opt for a shadowstep tier copying warriors tier 1 so stop asking.

[torr1186]

CND should be moved to tier 1 and replace shadow focus as Tziva suggested. In its place should be a self freedom or a passive that reduces the time spent in roots considerably.

i like the sounds of that. go work for blizzard please.

[Packing an i5]

i like the sounds of that. go work for blizzard please.

Thanks, when I still played I tried using the forums to make a sound and I was ignored, I realized no one uses the forums and few people agreed with any of my ideas and I srsly doubt blizzard read any of my posts/threads.

I must of posted a hundred times and opened dozens of threads about restoring old passives or new talent ideas. I was mostly mocked by elitists for my anti sub pvp agenda I included in almost every thread I hate that spec and its been the go to pvp spec for season 3,4,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16..

wrath pvp was pretty much awful there was more CC than now and you died very quickly especially as a rogue but at least you could dish out huge damage and play more than one spec and we were still rightfully the CC kings with stunlocking.

Im not alone even Woundman hates it thus why he gimps himself and plays combat.

[Packing an i5]

Less than a months time before WOD launches and Cloak&Dagger still Has not been replaced or improved its unlikely to see any change going into 6.0. I honestly think not only do they not care but blizzard cant come up with something better.

I think Cheat death is even worse that should be replaced Asap theres no reason to take it over feint.

[lolpve]

The solution which pvp rogues have been demanding for months is to remove both BoS and CaD, make step baseline and turn the whole tier into shadowstep variations/perks. Ie shorter cooldown / Breaks roots / 2 charges + longer cooldown.

[Packing an i5]

The solution which pvp rogues have been demanding for months is to remove both BoS and CaD, make step baseline and turn the whole tier into shadowstep variations/perks. Ie shorter cooldown / Breaks roots / 2 charges + longer cooldown.

I dont think thats a good way to go about it, blizz would never do that just copying the warrior tier 1.

[Deleted]

I really only worldpvp and BG and i'd feel robbed if cloak and dagger was removed. Works really well with your distance gainers and a double vanish up your sleeve. We're not all dragon bashers and pro pvp'ers. Leave it be.

[Packing an i5]

I really only worldpvp and BG and i'd feel robbed if cloak and dagger was removed. Works really well with your distance gainers and a double vanish up your sleeve. We're not all dragon bashers and pro pvp'ers. Leave it be.

im neither im a casual pvper at best Cloak and dagger is fun ive used it but its not practical BOS or step is better always. Step can be used to garuntee a kidney shot will land and immediately help you if you get blown off a bridge by a typhoon.

Bos is really good for defense, for escaping and resetting freeing you from slows at a low energy cost. Its also great for securing a quick sap in the opener.

I wish blizzard chose to go with Hit and run instead of cloak and dagger but it got scrapped in the PTR never made it to live.

[Sesshou]

Now, here comes the problem, my over-excited friends: There are not many ways to move around in this game while in combat. Either you run faster, or you blink. That's basically it.

You somehow missed the incredibly obvious third option of you pull them to you.

In before some one says they can't do that because its an iconic dk ability.