Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst
1
2
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dierdre View Post
    Even with the 2-pc, 4-pc and PBoI interactions, the actual weights you'll want to use depend on the fight you're doing. 1:1 is a safe, good overall choice, but you can try tipping to either mastery or crit (up to over 2k of secondary stats) and you'll notice not much of a difference overall. I tip a bit towards crit for Garrosh because even if there's a lot of searing to do in P1, that damage is nothing but meter whoring and is not useful at all (heck your tank alone can bring those adds down to 50%), while the damage that counts is e.g. burning down those engineers and jade temple adds ASAP, and crit will help you more with that than mastery (it benefits Halo, MB and SWD while mastery doesn't). Same for talents. Talent choice depends on the fight you're doing (and your role in that fight).
    Actually when it comes to this, leaning towards crit or mastery (depending on your spec) all its really doing is making your damage less consistent, and increasing the variation (while slightly lowering the average). Leaning towards crit on something like engineers would only benefit you if you're relying on Mindspike or MB to kill it, otherwise, dropping a 2-3 orb DP and using insanity would continue to favor more of the balance.

    However, splitting hairs aside, the difference between favoring crit and mastery is so minute overall. Going GCD cap/high mastery, vs DP3 and a balance of crit mastery is within the statistical margin of error... so as long as you have the 2pc bonus, really its only having at least the DP3 haste breakpoint that matters, after that, you can pretty much have stats however you like.

    Otherwise, a simple example for the OP (assuming 1% crit = 1% mastery in overall benefit):

    If I have 20% worth of stats to distribute, I could do:

    20% crit = 1.2 X Damage

    20% Mastery = 1.2 X Damage

    10% Crit, 10% Mastery = 1.1 x 1.1 x Damage = 1.21 X Damage

    Because crit and mastery have a multiplicative benefit, splitting between the two gives more of a benefit than dumping the pool into one side.
    Last edited by Blackmorgrim; 2014-08-08 at 12:25 PM.
    My Twitter Feed: FlayerInTheMist

    ***Visit me over in Vitaris!***
    Blackmorgrim#1728 (H2P:<H2P username> in msg box)
    "People are not persuaded by what we say but rather by what they understand." - Fortune cookie

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinalcrack View Post
    A large reason is the 2-pc bonus as well. When your mastery procs crit, you get bonus damage, so you first need a mastery proc and then for it to crit. Balancing the ratings max's this effect.
    This. T16 2pc changed our stat weights significantly. Without it, crit > mastery, like what has been true all expansion. The only other exception was the unerring vision trinket, since it gave you 100% crit and thus made crit on your gear worth less than usual.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmorgrim View Post
    Leaning towards crit on something like engineers would only benefit you if you're relying on Mindspike or MB to kill it, otherwise, dropping a 2-3 orb DP and using insanity would continue to favor more of the balance.
    Pooling orbs for nuking you pretty much go:
    1. DP (benefits from both crit and mastery)
    2. Mind Blast (benefits from crit, even more with t16 4-pc, doesn't benefit from mastery)
    3. MFI (benefits from both crit and mastery)
    4. SWD (benefits from crit, doesn't benefit from mastery).

    For jade temple you also open with Halo (which also doesn't benefit from mastery but does from crit) on all 3 packs for a considerable amount of relevant damage. Hence my leaning slightly towards crit. I agree though, 1:1 is a safer, less spiky overall stat balance, and the overall difference between going full crit / full mastery is trivial vs RNG and human error.

  4. #24
    Why don't you try it yourself. There are many variables that may make one slightly beneficial over the other depending on your rotation and the situation. Overall I've found that mastery is significantly better than crit watching my DPS in raids.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burton View Post
    Why don't you try it yourself. There are many variables that may make one slightly beneficial over the other depending on your rotation and the situation. Overall I've found that mastery is significantly better than crit watching my DPS in raids.
    if you're noticing a significant difference between one reforge and another then it's almost certainly not the reforging that's causing the difference. The sample size of comparing 1 raid to the next is nowhere near enough to draw any solid conclusions. There are just too many other variables. An extra trinket proc here, a SW: D proc there, a 10sec longer fight giving an extra sfiend. Someone dying giving longer in execute. These will all alter your damage to a larger extent than how you balance your secondary stats.
    At the end of the day, all of this 'optimizing' is really just trying to maximize the averages, you could be the best geared priest in the world and still get the worst RNG known to man (and vice versa)
    Last edited by Redsparowe; 2014-08-11 at 10:46 PM.
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparowe View Post
    if you're noticing a signficant difference between one extreme of reforging and another then it's almost certainly not the reforging that's causing the difference. The sample size of comparing 1 raid to the next is nowhere near enough to draw any solid conclusions. There are just too many other variables. An extra trinket proc here, a SW: D proc there, a 10sec longer fight giving an extra sfiend. Someone dying giving longer in execute. These will all alter your damage to a larger extend than how you balance your secondary stats.
    At the end of the day, all of this 'optimizing' is really just trying to maximize the averages, you could be the best geared priest in the world and still get the worst RNG known to man (and vice versa)
    That makes no sense at all.

    It's a consistent difference, both attacking the dummy and during raids. Not merely one boss, but one boss after the other, on trash, on dummies, etc. I get much higher burst when I pop everything with lust, and also when cds are down I'm still doing significantly more with favoring mastery over crit. So no, you're completely wrong in your characterization.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burton View Post
    That makes no sense at all.
    Then read it again son, because it is one of the most sound and accurate explanations you'll ever get.

  8. #28
    Yep, nothing consistent about it. There's a reasonable variance from raid to raid, and once you hit DP3, whether you go GCD/mastery, or split even between mastery/crit, or even go crit heavy... statistically you won't be able to tell the difference between how you're geared or the RNG of the fight. You just can't move enough stats to really make a significant difference.

    I get much higher burst when I pop everything with lust, and also when cds are down I'm still doing significantly more with favoring mastery over crit.
    As much as you think there's a significant difference, I guarantee you if we looked at 100 raids of you in the same gear, on the same fight, and compared them against another 100 raids of you with another stat setup... you'd be unable to tell the difference between the two gearsets from the DPS numbers alone.
    My Twitter Feed: FlayerInTheMist

    ***Visit me over in Vitaris!***
    Blackmorgrim#1728 (H2P:<H2P username> in msg box)
    "People are not persuaded by what we say but rather by what they understand." - Fortune cookie

  9. #29
    Maybe you had an extra skull banner one night. I mean that alone would probably outweigh reforging. Not trying to diminish min/maxing. I think being able to do everything you can BEFORE you step into a raid is important. But when it comes down to it. Playing even slightly better or getting a bit of RNG (or the other things I mentioned above) is going to obscure reforging from any meaningful analysis
    Last edited by Redsparowe; 2014-08-12 at 04:06 PM.
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmorgrim View Post
    Actually when it comes to this, leaning towards crit or mastery (depending on your spec) all its really doing is making your damage less consistent, and increasing the variation (while slightly lowering the average). Leaning towards crit on something like engineers would only benefit you if you're relying on Mindspike or MB to kill it, otherwise, dropping a 2-3 orb DP and using insanity would continue to favor more of the balance.

    However, splitting hairs aside, the difference between favoring crit and mastery is so minute overall. Going GCD cap/high mastery, vs DP3 and a balance of crit mastery is within the statistical margin of error... so as long as you have the 2pc bonus, really its only having at least the DP3 haste breakpoint that matters, after that, you can pretty much have stats however you like.

    Otherwise, a simple example for the OP (assuming 1% crit = 1% mastery in overall benefit):

    If I have 20% worth of stats to distribute, I could do:

    20% crit = 1.2 X Damage

    20% Mastery = 1.2 X Damage

    10% Crit, 10% Mastery = 1.1 x 1.1 x Damage = 1.21 X Damage

    Because crit and mastery have a multiplicative benefit, splitting between the two gives more of a benefit than dumping the pool into one side.
    Problem with that maths is that 1% mastery = 333.5 rating, whereas 1% crit = 600 rating.

  11. #31
    The Patient Aica's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    278
    Quote Originally Posted by Erto View Post
    Problem with that maths is that 1% mastery = 333.5 rating, whereas 1% crit = 600 rating.
    I think you missed the part where he said
    a simple example for the OP (assuming 1% crit = 1% mastery in overall benefit):
    In reality, 20% mastery isn't actually 20% damage, since it doesn't affect all spells.

    It's closer to saying that 1.8% mastery = 1% crit = 1% damage.

    20% crit = 1.2 x Damage

    36% mastery = 1.2 x Damage

    10% crit, 18% mastery = 1.1 x 1.1 x Damage = 1.21 x Damage

    Simple example with simple assumptions equals simple maths for simple understanding.
    {[( )]}

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Aica View Post
    I think you missed the part where he said
    You're right, I did.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •