1. #1
    Keyboard Turner
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    I need help tyvm

    Hello hope u guys doing fine, my raid group are on Garrosh H, my dps is really low, i went tonight as fire but it was the same, my RL asked me to go frost again for phase 1.5 we need the AOE on those adds, i was thinking about go full haste, more AOE but idk if its better Full mastery, can someone help me and advice me please, what should i do to increase my Dps,? thanks

    this in my armory us.battle.net/wow/en/character/drakkari/Hopee/simple

    TYVM

  2. #2
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    Your stats seem quite random to me, I may be wrong as I've only just started playing my mage again this week. But everything I've heard has suggested that you aim for:

    Hit (to 15%) > Haste (to 14,242 rating) > Mastery > Haste > Crit, and that you'd also like to have 25% crit in raid for 100% shatter crit.

    I see you have 17% hit, 12988 haste rating and 31% crit.

  3. #3
    Keyboard Turner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tekagi View Post
    Your stats seem quite random to me, I may be wrong as I've only just started playing my mage again this week. But everything I've heard has suggested that you aim for:

    Hit (to 15%) > Haste (to 14,242 rating) > Mastery > Haste > Crit, and that you'd also like to have 25% crit in raid for 100% shatter crit.

    I see you have 17% hit, 12988 haste rating and 31% crit.
    yes. right now its random, few hrs ago i had fire set, now i changed to the frost set, so idk what to do, if go full haste or mastery to improve my dps on garrosh H

    thanks for the reply

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopee View Post
    yes. right now its random, few hrs ago i had fire set, now i changed to the frost set, so idk what to do, if go full haste or mastery to improve my dps on garrosh H

    thanks for the reply
    i would go full haste for the extra nether tempest damage, but in general playing frost on 586 ilvl seems a little random to me never seen anything but fire or arcane on this type of gear

  5. #5
    Keyboard Turner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Instrument View Post
    i would go full haste for the extra nether tempest damage, but in general playing frost on 586 ilvl seems a little random to me never seen anything but fire or arcane on this type of gear
    if is the case i can go arcane i mean i just want to improve -.-"

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Instrument View Post
    i would go full haste for the extra nether tempest damage, but in general playing frost on 586 ilvl seems a little random to me never seen anything but fire or arcane on this type of gear
    All 3 Mage specs are perfectly viable at that level of gear, the difference between them is very small. I think frost is underplayed more so due to it being so weak in previous tiers (before frost mastery buff). Gear wise it's fine for frost, but I'd reforge some crit to haste to bring your crit down to 25% and your haste up to 50% raid buffed and then put some into mastery.

    After that it's just down to planning your spells.

    With alter time, are you waiting for fof and bf procs before popping it and losing trinket procs, or are you popping it with max procs up even if no fof & bf procs are up? Do you have logs from your previous pulls?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tekagi View Post
    With alter time, are you waiting for fof and bf procs before popping it and losing trinket procs, or are you popping it with max procs up even if no fof & bf procs are up? Do you have logs from your previous pulls?
    Fairly new to the mage scene so forgive me if this is a commonly asked and answered question, but has anyone looked deeply into Alter Time's optimal usage? I realise with WoD changes on the horizon this may be of low priority now, but I'd still be interested in reviewing some simulations somewhere.
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    Depends on your spec really, Ryme, if you're fire you want to enter it when you have your heating up stacks and press again to exit as soon as you've used up your pyros, to build your ignite for combustion. For frost using it when all of your procs are up and then leaving it to run its 6 second duration on the pull will give you more than waiting for 2 x FF & 1 BF proc and losing your procs - 6 s extra of all procs etc is a big deal. For arcane, I'm not 100% since I've not tried it, but looking at the spec and how it works, I would assume you'd use it with all procs up and 4 AB stacks, and then just burn with AB for the next 6 seconds? I'm assuming you get your mana back when alter time ends? An arcane mage would have to confirm that.

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    Moderator Wilderness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopee View Post
    yes. right now its random, few hrs ago i had fire set, now i changed to the frost set, so idk what to do, if go full haste or mastery to improve my dps on garrosh H

    thanks for the reply
    Do you have any logs? That's going to allow people to give you much more costructive feedback on H Garrosh or just how to play better in general.

    Why is your guild wiping on H Garrosh? If its struggles with the 1st intermission, then definitely keep playing Frost, as you'll be able to put out better damage on the adds. If its just an overall lack of dps that's causing you to transition too slowly or get too many empowered whirlwinds or whatever, then Frost of Fire can both do well, depending on which you play better as. But like I said, logs are what will help a lot more, you can basically use AMR to reforge/gem for Frost or Fire and you'll be all set in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Instrument View Post
    i would go full haste for the extra nether tempest damage, but in general playing frost on 586 ilvl seems a little random to me never seen anything but fire or arcane on this type of gear
    There's no reason to use NT for progression on H Garrosh. I wouldn't even think it would be better for padding on farm kills either since there are so few adds throughout the fight and they are killed so quickly.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    Fairly new to the mage scene so forgive me if this is a commonly asked and answered question, but has anyone looked deeply into Alter Time's optimal usage? I realise with WoD changes on the horizon this may be of low priority now, but I'd still be interested in reviewing some simulations somewhere.
    Lots of alter time usage has been theorycrafted and discussed. For example, the standard AT opener: http://altered-time.com/forum/viewto...nchor-rotation

    There's more advanced AT opener for fire here: http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8

    There's a lot more discussion there as well on the optimal AT usage for all specs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tekagi View Post
    All 3 Mage specs are perfectly viable at that level of gear, the difference between them is very small. I think frost is underplayed more so due to it being so weak in previous tiers (before frost mastery buff). Gear wise it's fine for frost, but I'd reforge some crit to haste to bring your crit down to 25% and your haste up to 50% raid buffed and then put some into mastery.

    After that it's just down to planning your spells.

    With alter time, are you waiting for fof and bf procs before popping it and losing trinket procs, or are you popping it with max procs up even if no fof & bf procs are up? Do you have logs from your previous pulls?

    i use Alter time when have trinket procs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    no i dont have any logs Wilderness my guild is wiping in the 1st intermission, we almost got it but still need more dps on adds, garrosh get 26-27 energy that we are now, idk if the rest on the fight i can put more dps then the others, with my gear i should do 410k its what i do, but the other are over 600k for the AOE we have other mage he is arcane doing like 550k so im always the last thats why i tried fire last night, but my rl asked me to frost but idk if frost or arcane, so idk what to do now

  12. #12
    Moderator Wilderness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopee View Post
    i use Alter time when have trinket procs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    no i dont have any logs Wilderness my guild is wiping in the 1st intermission, we almost got it but still need more dps on adds, garrosh get 26-27 energy that we are now, idk if the rest on the fight i can put more dps then the others, with my gear i should do 410k its what i do, but the other are over 600k for the AOE we have other mage he is arcane doing like 550k so im always the last thats why i tried fire last night, but my rl asked me to frost but idk if frost or arcane, so idk what to do now
    If you have the gear for Frost, you have the gear for Arcane, since they have similar stat priorities. But if the intermission and garrosh getting 25+ energy is your issue then I would stay Frost because you should be (if played correctly) doing more damage to those adds than either Fire or Arcane. Make sure you are saving your smaller CDs for that (particularly frozen orb) and that you bank any procs that you can prior to being pulled up.

    The other reason logs are useful, not just to help you, is to sort out who is actually performing well and doing the fight correctly and who isn't. AoE damage on the adds in P1 is mostly useless dps. You only need to get them down enough to have them killed when the iron star hits, which can be done through light AoE and cloak procs. Padding there doesn't really matter or hurt you much - IF its not impacting the rest of the fight. If you are getting a 2nd wolf rider or iron star in P1 because people are focusing on AoE and not Garrosh damage, then that's an issue. If people are blowing all their CDs for AoE and then not having something for the intermission, then that's an issue. Saying that the Arcane mage is doing 550k dps and you're only doing 410k dps so he must be doing better isn't necessarily the case. If you're focusing on boss damage in P1 and putting out better damage on the intermission adds while he spends half of P1 spamming AE to pad his totals, then you are being more helpful to your raid. There are ways to pad on this fight (multi-dotting weapons, focusing on AoE on adds, etc) that have no value to progression. During progression what matters is damage to Garrosh, and damage to the right adds (intermission 1, empowered whirling if you aren't kiting) at the right times.

    If your guild has logs, but they are private, just make sure that your RL is using those logs and focusing on the right things rather than just looking at who is topping the overall meters. Without logs we can't help you a whole lot, other than to give you general advice, tell you to read the relevant spec-guides, make sure your bomb and RoP/Invoker's uptime is good, etc. But you won't know if your uptimes are good without looking at logs.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilderness View Post
    If you have the gear for Frost, you have the gear for Arcane, since they have similar stat priorities. But if the intermission and garrosh getting 25+ energy is your issue then I would stay Frost because you should be (if played correctly) doing more damage to those adds than either Fire or Arcane. Make sure you are saving your smaller CDs for that (particularly frozen orb) and that you bank any procs that you can prior to being pulled up.

    The other reason logs are useful, not just to help you, is to sort out who is actually performing well and doing the fight correctly and who isn't. AoE damage on the adds in P1 is mostly useless dps. You only need to get them down enough to have them killed when the iron star hits, which can be done through light AoE and cloak procs. Padding there doesn't really matter or hurt you much - IF its not impacting the rest of the fight. If you are getting a 2nd wolf rider or iron star in P1 because people are focusing on AoE and not Garrosh damage, then that's an issue. If people are blowing all their CDs for AoE and then not having something for the intermission, then that's an issue. Saying that the Arcane mage is doing 550k dps and you're only doing 410k dps so he must be doing better isn't necessarily the case. If you're focusing on boss damage in P1 and putting out better damage on the intermission adds while he spends half of P1 spamming AE to pad his totals, then you are being more helpful to your raid. There are ways to pad on this fight (multi-dotting weapons, focusing on AoE on adds, etc) that have no value to progression. During progression what matters is damage to Garrosh, and damage to the right adds (intermission 1, empowered whirling if you aren't kiting) at the right times.

    If your guild has logs, but they are private, just make sure that your RL is using those logs and focusing on the right things rather than just looking at who is topping the overall meters. Without logs we can't help you a whole lot, other than to give you general advice, tell you to read the relevant spec-guides, make sure your bomb and RoP/Invoker's uptime is good, etc. But you won't know if your uptimes are good without looking at logs.

    yep is what happen to us, just like you described but im sure u are aware that the adds need be to de down before he screams cause the tank loses aggro and when that happens adds kill us we are getting 2 iron stars, doing with one tank 2 healers

    thanks for the help

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire Deithy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopee View Post
    yep is what happen to us, just like you described but im sure u are aware that the adds need be to de down before he screams cause the tank loses aggro and when that happens adds kill us we are getting 2 iron stars, doing with one tank 2 healers

    thanks for the help
    Let me fix that for you - the adds don't have aggro. They fixate on the closest target. They are not a threat before the scream. For when the scream occur u need to stun the adds and continue to cleave them. I am bolding the cleave part. Cleave, not aoe. Garosh damage is more important.

    Now on the topic
    Arcane is god for the 1st phase with the adds and for 2nd phase if your RL let you stay in the melle and just burn the boss. Glyphed CoC+Fire bomb+Arcane Barrage cleave can do a lot of dps. I personaly have reached 1,5 mln burst... anyway. But arcane is very very bad for the 1st intermission. It does bad dps on the adds there and that is problem, because they have to die asap. Even with banking and CD usages i have sometimes forced myself to use my second pot there just to make sure we can deal with first intermision (if that is done its basically a kill). Well ofcourse that is fixable with smart group split, but still it feels bad to be the bottom of the dps on these adds

    With proper fire gear you can do good damage on Garosh. If u manage to get good combustion when the adds come and u manage to spread it on them you can do some sick burst. But then it comes again the first intermission and i believe that fire is even worse than arcane there, especialy on 10 man.

    Frost is the best choice by my opinion for that fight. Banking procs for the first set of adds and then frozen orb for the second set and you can top the damge done on these damn adds. Using bombs on the desecrated weapons to get extra FFB procs for 2nd and 3rd phase is also awesome exploit to get more dmg on the boss. The only bad thing about frost is that its nature is he can only cleave. You can't AoE the adds in first phase properly with frost as the other two specs can. And as i said when they fixate on people and healers can handle it people start to die.
    Last edited by Deithy; 2014-08-08 at 07:13 AM.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deithy View Post
    Let me fix that for you - the adds don't have aggro. They fixate on the closest target. They are not a threat before the scream. For when the scream occur u need to stun the adds and continue to cleave them. I am bolding the cleave part. Cleave, not aoe. Garosh damage is more important.

    Now on the topic
    Arcane is god for the 1st phase with the adds and for 2nd phase if your RL let you stay in the melle and just burn the boss. Glyphed CoC+Fire bomb+Arcane Barrage cleave can do a lot of dps. I personaly have reached 1,5 mln burst... anyway. But arcane is very very bad for the 1st intermission. It does bad dps on the adds there and that is problem, because they have to die asap. Even with banking and CD usages i have sometimes forced myself to use my second pot there just to make sure we can deal with first intermision (if that is done its basically a kill). Well ofcourse that is fixable with smart group split, but still it feels bad to be the bottom of the dps on these adds

    With proper fire gear you can do good damage on Garosh. If u manage to get good combustion when the adds come and u manage to spread it on them you can do some sick burst. But then it comes again the first intermission and i believe that fire is even worse than arcane there, especialy on 10 man.

    Frost is the best choice by my opinion for that fight. Banking procs for the first set of adds and then frozen orb for the second set and you can top the damge done on these damn adds. Using bombs on the desecrated weapons to get extra FFB procs for 2nd and 3rd phase is also awesome exploit to get more dmg on the boss. The only bad thing about frost is that its nature is he can only cleave. You can't AoE the adds in first phase properly with frost as the other two specs can. And as i said when they fixate on people and healers can handle it people start to die.
    thanks for the advice, im going frost now, like in 2 weeks we going 25m, so ill go arcane by then, tyvm for the help

  16. #16
    Gonna close this, if you still have questions, post in the dedicated help my dps thread, which can be found here.

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