1. #10001
    Mechagnome Ailylia's Avatar
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    Well for example here is me on HHC (normal) playing around with it on farm mode last night:

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=12

    Fel Lash did 388k (2.38%) of my total dps.

  2. #10002
    Yeah it did 975dps for you in that fight, so about twice what the crit food would do. I think I'll use it for our next raid.

  3. #10003
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    I'm gonna bet that it's RPPM, so attack speed doesn't matter, only haste does.
    We're pretty sure it is 2 RPPM to proc the 4-6 bolts. We're just not sure what the modifiers are on it just yet.

  4. #10004
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Why is it so difficult to just run from the boss and find the sweetspot where you can and cannot attack the boss anymore due to range?

    Why does one need an addon to know they are +35 yards away from a boss? Just fucking run away from the boss until you can't attack it anymore and then stutterstep back into range of the boss.
    Why do you need add-on for anything. I just play using default ui. /s
    Acynnie
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  5. #10005
    Quote Originally Posted by jpthepope View Post
    most likely it will be because the haste going for the ring proc, and then constantly lining up with the ring proc there after.
    The only fight I think our guild won't be using the ring on pull is socrethar, and obviously heroic manaroth. So using rapI'd fire then is a no-brainer. I don't see us delaying Rapid fire the more I think about it. :/

  6. #10006
    At least on Soc Heroic, the 2 minute mark was right as the first red portal add spawned, but i suppose that's a good time for a big damage cooldown. Mannoroth I'm honestly not sure how our timing lines up, so we will see on that i guess. But yeah I'm just saying I don't think delaying Rapid fire will be beneficial once we get the legendary ring because no raid lead is gona delay using the first ring until sub 80% unless necessary.

  7. #10007
    Quote Originally Posted by A Day to Remember View Post
    At least on Soc Heroic, the 2 minute mark was right as the first red portal add spawned, but i suppose that's a good time for a big damage cooldown. Mannoroth I'm honestly not sure how our timing lines up, so we will see on that i guess. But yeah I'm just saying I don't think delaying Rapid fire will be beneficial once we get the legendary ring because no raid lead is gona delay using the first ring until sub 80% unless necessary.
    Then just use Rapid Fire on the pull. I don't understand the issue. Lining it up with the ring is more important.

    Here are some sims to back my claim up.

    Single Target


    Beastlord


    3 Target


    5 Target


    The only thing I did to sim this was add the following line to the rapid fire portion of the APL.

    actions+=/rapid_fire,if=buff.careful_aim.down

    Obviously this is just simcraft, but I see no real reason to save Rapid Fire til your natural careful aim is down, at least with the Maalus ring. Even without Maalus, and the 715 ring instead, there is still barely a gain in saving Rapid Fire. However currently, if you have the Beating Heart trinket, saving it is a slightly higher gain.

    T18 BiS


    My own gear


    T18 BiS w/ Mirror instead


    My gear w/ Mirror instead of Beating Heart (Saving is worse)


    - - - Updated - - -

    Another thing I would like to mention is that lining Rapid Fire up with a mechanic like Feast of Souls is very important, so since the first one is 2 minutes into the fight, there's no reason to not just use Rapid Fire on the pull. Coming up with it on a fight by fight basis is silly and there are so many circumstances and different fights drop below 80% health faster, adds, it's just impossible to sim the amount of different scenarios that you will see. I would not be surprised to see general recommendations from either Azor or I once we get more hands on experience with the new fights, but for now it's kind of a toss up.
    Last edited by Niix; 2015-06-29 at 11:14 PM.

  8. #10008
    Until Mythic comes around, nothing matters. Also, nothing beats experience when it comes to fight-sensitive suggestions like such things as saving cd's, yaddayadda.

  9. #10009
    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post
    Until Mythic comes around, nothing matters. Also, nothing beats experience when it comes to fight-sensitive suggestions like such things as saving cd's, yaddayadda.
    10charspls

  10. #10010
    Dreadlord Ickabob's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Talisman of the Master Tracker had the chance to trigger reduced by 6% for Survival Hunters.
    Nothing like rubbing more salt in Survival's wounds, eh? It's almost like someone at Blizzard said, "Hey, Survival is already dog shit terrible, let's make it worse! No one will notice!"

  11. #10011
    I just don't get it. I think they are trying to make some kind of joke. Maybe they'll add kill shot to survival with a 10 minute cd and no reset.

  12. #10012
    Stood in the Fire Tekslol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickabob View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Talisman of the Master Tracker had the chance to trigger reduced by 6% for Survival Hunters.
    Nothing like rubbing more salt in Survival's wounds, eh? It's almost like someone at Blizzard said, "Hey, Survival is already dog shit terrible, let's make it worse! No one will notice!"
    This might indicate that they intend to buff SV, and nerfed the trinket to balance around something that they are adding to the spec. Can't think of any other reason for this change. I mean to be honest it doesn't matter too much since no one is really playing SV atm.

  13. #10013
    Let's be fair, the change to the SV 4-piece is pretty decent. It's pretty sustainable to have Black Arrow up on 3+ targets with the trinket, so the change in theory increases the 4-piece's damage quite a lot on several fights. It was already doing 8-10% of our damage on 5 target AoE; that could be potentially multiplied. I remain unconvinced that you'd want to play SV over BM if you really wanted to AoE hard, and MM still has better low-target cleave/single-target.
    Last edited by HonneurVilified; 2015-06-30 at 05:05 AM.

  14. #10014
    Quote Originally Posted by blackychan View Post
    How updated is the Simcraft math for hunters? I got the normal mode Hunter trinket from Arch tonight and it's only simming very slightly ahead of my Mythic (socketed) Kromog trinket 61k vs 61.3k is there a way to see how far away you are standing in the sims, or a way to change it manually? Cheers.
    The Kromog trinket rocks. The archy trinket is disappointingly situational.

  15. #10015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokrick View Post
    The Kromog trinket rocks. The archy trinket is disappointingly situational.
    I've found use for it on almost every fight so far, just need to play smart so you don't rip. My healers are fine with me staying out as long as it doesn't negatively effect the raid mechanically. I'm sure Mythic will be a different story but 13/13H and no issues staying near max range yet.

  16. #10016
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by blackychan View Post
    I've found use for it on almost every fight so far, just need to play smart so you don't rip. My healers are fine with me staying out as long as it doesn't negatively effect the raid mechanically. I'm sure Mythic will be a different story but 13/13H and no issues staying near max range yet.
    Just asking, but I bet you couldn't be on enough range to make the trinket work on a few bosses: Assault, kormrok, gorefiend interphases, iskar interphases, xhulorac at some points, velhari and fel lord due to extremely small room, and soc'retar where people usually stand at melee range. On mannoroth you would need to move constantly to maximize distance to the infernals, etc. On some of those bosses the trinket can be VERY slighly better than any BRF one, or it can be like having nothing equipped (gorefiend burst phases being close to melee, velhari burn phase being close aswell).

  17. #10017
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    Quote Originally Posted by pichuca View Post
    Assault,
    Easy enough to stand max range, not much aoe damage so you don't really run any risk of staying out. Run forward to nuke demos while they are rolling in.

    Quote Originally Posted by pichuca View Post
    kormrok
    Stay out, stack in for hands phase?!??

    Quote Originally Posted by pichuca View Post
    gorefiend interphases(gorefiend burst phases being close to melee
    Your hunters should be out in africa for this phase anyway to soak the spirits before they hit the boss.

    Quote Originally Posted by pichuca View Post
    iskar interphases
    I dunno how other guilds are doing it, our ranged stack group in intermission is pretty far away from the adds anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by pichuca View Post
    xhulorac at some points
    We stand at ranged the entire fight, why would you want to ever be in melee for this fight? Just means more running to drop off fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by pichuca View Post
    velhari
    Admittedly a pretty crappy fight for the trinket, phase 2 and 3 you pretty much have to stack in with the raid.

    Quote Originally Posted by pichuca View Post
    and fel lord due to extremely small room, and soc'retar where people usually stand at melee range.
    Fel lord room is plenty big enough to make use of the trinket unless you are tanking him in the middle for some reason. You can stay out on Socrethar easily, and there are adds running in constantly that you can make use of.

    While its a fun trinket, it is very niche. I predict that in Mythic prog I will rarely be running it due to how situational it is, and the fact that when you do need to stack it is quite literally useless.
    Last edited by Miiir; 2015-06-30 at 09:48 AM.

  18. #10018
    Deleted
    Dps shouldn't soak ghosts during the damage increasing phase where the boss doesn't melee anymore.....

    The trinket will be used to produce the highest possible dps absolutely. But it won't be very good for progress

  19. #10019
    Deleted
    I can't imagine how you can stay at max range of everything in Assault if not being on the opposite side of the raid. In kormrok The time you spend stacked for hands, even if it's already only a few secs, pretty much invalidates the slight benefit the trinket would mean on the whole fight. On gorefiend tanks soak spirits, is idiotic to have any dps doing it let alone hunters, it means the whole phase with pretty much no sniper training up at all. On iskar most people stack both melee/ranged in the middle of the room with adds being tanked close. In xhulorac there's many times you will have unstable voidfiends closing the gap to the rangeds during the whole void phase. In Fel lord you'll need to be soaking/be positioned for wakes and many times it will mean moving closer than 35 yards to the boss. If in soc'retar you stay at max range while the rest of the raid is close to the portal, I would call that being a liability if spirits weren't trivial already on heroic.

    Anyway, if I'm really wrong, i'd love to se some logs where you are getting the maximun possible benefit of the trinket on each fight. It is just that the chances to waste the trinket slot with the archimonde one are so big, and the benefit being that low...

  20. #10020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joyful View Post
    Dps shouldn't soak ghosts during the damage increasing phase where the boss doesn't melee anymore.....
    Considering how spread the spirits can spawn having just the tanks trying to soak the side spirits isn't the best idea, why risk one hitting when a hunter can soak it?

    Quote Originally Posted by pichuca View Post
    On gorefiend tanks soak spirits, is idiotic to have any dps doing it let alone hunters, it means the whole phase with pretty much no sniper training up at all.
    If your sniper training is dropping off you either have 1 hunter trying to soak every spirit or you are doing it very wrong, you shouldn't have to move very often at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by pichuca View Post
    Anyway, if I'm really wrong
    I never said you were wrong, in my original post I even said I would rarely use the trinket on prog. But it can definitely be used efficiently on almost every fight with good positioning.

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