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  1. #1

    The Survival Hunter Revamp to end all Revamps

    Can't post links yet

    Forum post for feedback: usDOTbattleDOTnet/forums/en/wow/topic/20761737116?page=1

    Reddit post for feedback: wwwDOTredditDOTcom/r/wow/comments/7wcvdk/bushs_bfa_survival_hunter_rework/

    The Revamp in an easier to read format: docsDOTgoogleDOTcom/document/d/17PJbhcfcapLOoCcpgExn4T6lqZBEcr95xW0lsQ9C0Sc/edit?usp=sharing

    DISCLAIMER: All numbers are placeholders. The mechanics are what is important at this point.

    Introduction

    My new direction for this spec is influenced by playstyles, mechanics, and themes I have really enjoyed in the past. The fury mechanic from Demonology Warlock in BRF, WoTLK era Chimaera Shot with its effect tied to what sting was used previously, MoP era Enhancement Shaman ascendance, and my 12 years of Hunter experience are the main contributors. I’ve tried to mesh the essence of those mechanics with the Survival Hunter theme Blizzard has tried to create in Legion and on the BFA Alpha. A trapper and his trusty pet, with some ranged utility, who adapt to their environment. Although this might appear complicated, there are actually only 5 damage dealing buttons, and 1 dps CD button by default. The depth comes from how those abilities interact.

    The basis for the spec is using focus to build mongoose fury (MF), a secondary resource that has 20 charges. Your main focus spender is Mongoose Bite, which generates 1 Mongoose Fury charge each time it is used. At 10 charges you can use your main “cooldown” called “Empower Aspects”(EA). EA grants a bonus to your abilities corresponding to the rotational ability you used just before empowering, for 10 seconds. This is all described in the “Rotational Abilities” section. Although you CAN use EA as soon as you reach 10 MF, you have the ability to wait without losing effectiveness since you can hold 20 charges. This rewards planning and allows you to tailor your DPS cooldown to the situation. The main choices made during play would be when to use EA, and what it should do when used.

    Basics

    Uses melee weapons with some ranged abilities.
    10 yard melee range.
    100 Focus
    20 Mongoose Fury (MF) - Settles at 10 when out of combat.

    Stats

    Haste - Lowers global CD, increases passive focus regen, dots tick faster.
    Mastery - Increases the effect of Empower Aspects by X%.
    Crit/Versatility - Standard

    Rotational Abilities

    Mongoose Bite (MB) - Costs 60 Focus, 10 yard range. Generates 1 MF. Empower Mongoose.

    Raptor Strike (RS) - Generates 10 Focus, 30 yard range. Empower Eagle.(Intended to be active focus generator for 3 or less targets.)

    Lacerate - Damage over time, 10 yard range. Generates 5 focus per tick. Empower Tiger.

    Flanking Strike (FS) - 6 Second CD. Costs 30 Focus, 10 yard range. Causes your next MB to generate 2 MF. Also heals you and your pet for 5% of total health. Empower Chimaera.

    Carve - 10 yard range frontal cone. Generates 3 focus per target hit. Empower Hydra.(Intended to be active focus generator for 4 or more targets.)

    Empower Aspects (EA) - Become an empowered aspect of the wild god associated with the last ability you used, for 10 seconds. Costs 10 MF. Off the global cooldown. During EA, your Mongoose Bite is transformed into Prey Upon. (Animation would be a ghostly version of chosen wild god overlaying your character model, the colour shown below so observers can tell what you picked.)
    Prey Upon (PU) - Costs 30 Focus, 10 yard range. High damage. Causes you to charge to the target when used.

    Empowered Aspects

    Mongoose Bite - Aspect of the Mongoose: Duel your target, increasing damage and dodge chance by 20% +X%. All damage you do is redirected to that target. If that target is below 15% health, your global cooldown is reduced by 0.5 seconds. (Priority target and execute phase aspect.)

    Raptor Strike - Aspect of the Eagle: All abilities gain 30 +X% yard range. (Ranged utility aspect.)

    Lacerate - Aspect of the Tiger: All damaging abilities cause their targets to take an additional 30% + X% damage over 15 seconds, applied as a stacking bleed effect. Bleeding targets generate 5 focus per tick. (General 1-3 target dps aspect.)

    Flanking Strike - Aspect of the Chimaera: Half the damage you take is dealt to your pet instead. You and your pet gain X% leech. (Defensive aspect, for when staying alive is more important than dps.)

    Carve - Aspect of the Hydra: Your single target abilities hit all other targets within 10 yards of the target for 30%+X% of normal damage. Carve is transformed into: Butchery - 3 Second CD. Area of Effect, 10 yard range. Generates 3 focus per target hit. Deals 25% more damage to each target, per target hit. (Greater than 4 target AOE dps and utility aspect.)

    Secondary Abilities

    Harpoon - Unchanged.

    Freezing Trap - Unchanged.

    Tar Trap - Unchanged.

    Explosive Trap - Changed to trivial damage + AOE knockback. Meant for utility, not damage.

    Flare - Unchanged.

    Muzzle - Unchanged.

    Wing Clip - Unchanged.

    Feign Death - Unchanged.

    Mend Pet - Unchanged.

    Disengage - Baseline, unchanged.

    Camouflage - Baseline, unchanged.

    Aspect of the Cheetah - Baseline, 1.5 Minute CD. Increases the run speed of you and your pet by 90% for 6 seconds, breaking snares. Speed bonus decreases by 30% every 2 seconds.

    Aspect of the Turtle - Replaced with Aspect of the Porcupine - Baseline, 2 Minute recharge. Two charges. Reflects all attacks back at the attacker for 3 seconds. Reduces damage you take by 30%.

    Talent Ideas

    (I’ll leave this open to the creative masses, however anything allowing you to be in two empowered aspects at the same time would be too overpowered, at least as they are written right now.)

    Serpent Sting (SS) - Replaces Lacerate. Damage over time, 30 yard range. Generates 5 focus per tick. Lasts 18 seconds. Empower Cobra. (Higher damage than Lacerate.)
    Aspect of the Cobra: All abilities used against a target afflicted by Serpent Sting also strike up to 2 additional targets afflicted Serpent Sting for 70% + X% of normal damage, applied as a stacking poison debuff.

    Fight and Flight - When below 50% health, gain up to 50% damage reduction and run speed based on health missing. (49% health = 1% DR and run speed, 1% health = 49% DR and run speed)

    Pitfall Trap - Replaces Tar Trap. Takes 2 seconds to arm. When triggered, all enemies within 8 yards fall into the pit, knocking them down and rooting them for 5 seconds. Any enemies falling into the pit after it is triggered will also be affected. Lasts 10 seconds.

    Tracker’s Net - Replaces Wing Clip. 3 Second CD, 30 yard range. Hurls a net at the enemy, rooting them in place for 3 seconds, and reducing their movement speed by 50% for 15 seconds. Damage may break root effect.

    Cool Combos

    Execute Carnage: When execute phase is approaching you could pool 20 MF for back to back empowered windows. If the target will only live long enough for one window, you could Aspect of the Tiger just before execute range, which would set up bleeds on whatever enemies you damage. The damage and focus generation from all those bleeds would then fuel an extra devastating Aspect of the Mongoose immediately after.

    Ranged Control: While in Aspect of the Hydra and talented into Tracker’s Net, you can regularly root/snare a large pack of enemies instantly from range without the need for your Tar Trap to be triggered. This means you would be able to help control bats on Eonar instead of relying on overpowered warlocks! It also means you could slow the advance of more than one pack of enemies at a time.

    Because … Brown Makes it Go Faster?: This one has marginal uses, but that doesn’t make it less cool. While in Aspect of the Eagle, your Prey Upon also benefits from the range increase. That means you can constantly charge enemies 40+ yards away every global if you wanted to, as long as you have the focus!

    Thank you for reading and commenting!

  2. #2
    No no we don't need melee spec. Legion experiment failed miserably. Just revert it to MoP state.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM_RUS View Post
    No no we don't need melee spec. Legion experiment failed miserably. Just revert it to MoP state.
    Make it a tank spec!!!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    Make it a tank spec!!!
    they could make it heal spec. Two pistols and have it work like the Merc Healer in SWTOR.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Xirrohon View Post
    they could make it heal spec. Two pistols and have it work like the Merc Healer in SWTOR.
    Any feedback related to what I posted?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bushsbuddy View Post
    Any feedback related to what I posted?
    It was buuuttt.. Yeah looks like they are trying to fix the spec. My issue with the spec is the awful animation when certain classes us pole arms....

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Toxuvox's Avatar
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    I like the idea of empowered aspects...that was always my class fantasy of what a rugged, wilds wandering Hunter should be about....not just one with the beasts, but actually taking on traits as an avatar of the spirit of the wilds, as opposed to an actual shape shift like druids. Making them temporary, resource consuming abilities could really add great combat ability and utility. I would think the build up and spend should happen fairly quickly...sort of like a 20-30 second build phase followed by a 10-15 second spend phase. In fact, coupled with the upcoming Survival changes, harpooning in for some of the melee based empowered aspects, while building resource, then disengaging out and spending on a ranged based empowered aspect, with the additional visual impact of a visible Animal Aspect "Ghost" over your player model would be particularly cool. I like it Bushbuddy

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxuvox View Post
    I like the idea of empowered aspects...that was always my class fantasy of what a rugged, wilds wandering Hunter should be about....not just one with the beasts, but actually taking on traits as an avatar of the spirit of the wilds, as opposed to an actual shape shift like druids. Making them temporary, resource consuming abilities could really add great combat ability and utility. I would think the build up and spend should happen fairly quickly...sort of like a 20-30 second build phase followed by a 10-15 second spend phase. In fact, coupled with the upcoming Survival changes, harpooning in for some of the melee based empowered aspects, while building resource, then disengaging out and spending on a ranged based empowered aspect, with the additional visual impact of a visible Animal Aspect "Ghost" over your player model would be particularly cool. I like it Bushbuddy
    Just made my day man... someone finally gets it

  9. #9
    looks nice, but if blizzard touched it you'd lose just about everything cool and original before it hit live.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Worgar View Post
    looks nice, but if blizzard touched it you'd lose just about everything cool and original before it hit live.
    I think even if they butchered my idea it would be better than what they have on the alpha lol

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM_RUS View Post
    No no we don't need melee spec. Legion experiment failed miserably. Just revert it to MoP state.
    Hunter having a melee spec is awesome and does not need to be changed, though of course I'd be happier with BM or a 4th spec being the melee.

    And even if Survival went ranged again, the odds of it being MoP are absolutely zero. They'd do like every other spec and prune it into oblivion.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM_RUS View Post
    No no we don't need melee spec. Legion experiment failed miserably. Just revert it to MoP state.
    The only thing that failed was the delusional Survival players who thought the braindead spec was actually fun.

  13. #13
    Your survival revamp sounds more like a BM revamp because all the flavour survival stuff is kinda relegated to utility with the exception of mongoose bite/fury, which honestly blizzard should've done from the get go(Why couldn't they have just built upon trap launcher/grenades and kept survival ranged). The aspects just seem way more fitting for BM imo.

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire
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    OP = Thanks but NO.

    RIP Surv
    Quote Originally Posted by Secret81
    I´ve heard, there will be Epic loot as normal quest rewards in Cata while you level.
    To make the quest feel more epic.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashcrack View Post
    Your survival revamp sounds more like a BM revamp because all the flavour survival stuff is kinda relegated to utility with the exception of mongoose bite/fury, which honestly blizzard should've done from the get go(Why couldn't they have just built upon trap launcher/grenades and kept survival ranged). The aspects just seem way more fitting for BM imo.
    I don't really care what spec it is if it were to be added because I just want the gameplay, but I'll say I think it fits SV better because it's less about buffing the pet and more about yourself, with the pet as utility.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Frogguh View Post
    Hunter having a melee spec is awesome and does not need to be changed, though of course I'd be happier with BM or a 4th spec being the melee.
    It clearly isn't awesome if almost no one is playing it. A change was absolutely needed, even for people who want it to remain melee.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    The only thing that failed was the delusional Survival players who thought the braindead spec was actually fun.
    It was apparently fun enough to be one of the game's most popular specs for several years.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    It clearly isn't awesome if almost no one is playing it. A change was absolutely needed, even for people who want it to remain melee.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It was apparently fun enough to be one of the game's most popular specs for several years.
    I feel like you're following me at this point. Also assume your hunter is Bepples, or you two drink the same Kool-Aid.

  18. #18
    OP clearly put a lot of work into this, and I'm impressed. This isn't as far flung as a lot of these fan revamps and I think would fit in wonderfully on live. I like the idea of Empower Aspects, and how one can flow into the next. I also like that its not just a bunch of CDs that you swiftly macro together.

    Great work Bush! Blizz, hire this guy!

  19. #19
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post

    It was apparently fun enough to be one of the game's most popular specs for several years.
    Hunter was the most popular class for years.

    Survival was the largest DPS spec while being easy as shit for years.

    It played identical to MM for most of those years.

    It was boring.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Bushsbuddy View Post
    I feel like you're following me at this point. Also assume your hunter is Bepples, or you two drink the same Kool-Aid.
    Maybe we run into each other because you are spamming every available discussion board with your crap ideas that no one likes? Plus, I wasn't even responding to you in the post you quoted so stop being so self-absorbed.

    By the way: to any readers who think I'm being too harsh, here is OP on the official forums calling everyone who disagrees with him "morons":

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...page=2#post-27

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Hunter was the most popular class for years.

    Survival was the largest DPS spec while being easy as shit for years.

    It played identical to MM for most of those years.

    It was boring.
    Clearly it was fun enough to garner a large and dedicated following. Sounds like you are just trying to downplay it because you are insecure about your abandoned circus freak of a spec.

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