1. #14521
    Quote Originally Posted by caph View Post
    But while MM can stand further away to give your other ranged more space, you can react to the movement of your fellow ranges as BM (aka them getting fire) by giving them more space if needed without getting punished DPS wise - which kind of accomplishes the same. BM also got less punished in P1 by having to outrange the Boss and Bossdmg in p1 and in general was superior and so was dmg on the big eye in p2 because you could always have BW ready, even if you had to delay it a little.

    MM does more burst damage to priority targets with Trueshot up than BM does, outside of having *every single cooldown* available. Aspect+TT+BW is required to match. , and I was capable of getting trueshot up for almost every eye spawn (obviously, not for the eye-in-storm followed by another eye ~10 seconds later; But I could use it on 1, 2 and 4 of that phase, or 1, 2, 3 [our warriors would leap out and singletarget-draught the storm eye, so everyone else saved cds for the second one]). In that respect, I don't think you can argue that BM's priority damage was better than MM's (and this goes for P1 as well; MM had little to no downtime when you played with the gloves, which was ideal for this fight, and with Trueshot being an undisputable AOE crackhouse and up for all the small eye waves, there's no way BM kept up in P1 on anything but pure boss damage (which was a joke outside of the push-before-fel-lord strat, which quite frankly wasn't a very good one untill the nerf).

    You also say BM got less punished by outranging the boss, but that's not really true when the point of MM is you *never got out of range*, because if you're stood at 50 yards, there's no way anyone else is near you due to their 40y ranges and splash damage being 8(?) yards.

    I can't dispute many of your other points as I quite simply haven't got the experience pre-7.2; I would still argue that Botanist was more ideal for MM than BM due to the belt legendary propelling MM to insane levels of damage, and trueshot being up every other lasher wave (allowing 2x MM hunters to rotate trueshots to annihilate lashers, freeing up everyone else), where as BM had the pet travel time (which as you say yourself, is largely fixed now).

    MM also couldn't do AOE dps to parasites unless in melee, by the way; Something you'd likely not want to be :P.

    As a last note:
    do you have constant waves of adds of which you NEED to focus down a priority Target while all the other adds are almost irrelevant. In the first case MM will be the clear winner while in the second case BM will probably win out due to more frequent Single Target burst windows. Ecetera.
    MM wins both on burst AOE and the scenario you describe there because of belt. Take Tichondrius as an example and weed out the blood damage; Focus regen from multishot becomes worth it at 3 targets (which means first wave of bloods), and every MS is +40-70% aimed damage, which makes MM's singletarget damage go ballistic, while being able to burst down the adds super well when they're dragged out as well. MM is the king of all AOE scenarios because the belt buffs long, drawn out cleave, and trueshot enables insane burst.

  2. #14522
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    MM does more burst damage to priority targets with Trueshot up than BM does, outside of having *every single cooldown* available. Aspect+TT+BW is required to match. , and I was capable of getting trueshot up for almost every eye spawn (obviously, not for the eye-in-storm followed by another eye ~10 seconds later; But I could use it on 1, 2 and 4 of that phase, or 1, 2, 3 [our warriors would leap out and singletarget-draught the storm eye, so everyone else saved cds for the second one]). In that respect, I don't think you can argue that BM's priority damage was better than MM's (and this goes for P1 as well; MM had little to no downtime when you played with the gloves, which was ideal for this fight, and with Trueshot being an undisputable AOE crackhouse and up for all the small eye waves, there's no way BM kept up in P1 on anything but pure boss damage (which was a joke outside of the push-before-fel-lord strat, which quite frankly wasn't a very good one untill the nerf).

    You also say BM got less punished by outranging the boss, but that's not really true when the point of MM is you *never got out of range*, because if you're stood at 50 yards, there's no way anyone else is near you due to their 40y ranges and splash damage being 8(?) yards.

    I can't dispute many of your other points as I quite simply haven't got the experience pre-7.2; I would still argue that Botanist was more ideal for MM than BM due to the belt legendary propelling MM to insane levels of damage, and trueshot being up every other lasher wave (allowing 2x MM hunters to rotate trueshots to annihilate lashers, freeing up everyone else), where as BM had the pet travel time (which as you say yourself, is largely fixed now).

    MM also couldn't do AOE dps to parasites unless in melee, by the way; Something you'd likely not want to be :P.

    As a last note:


    MM wins both on burst AOE and the scenario you describe there because of belt. Take Tichondrius as an example and weed out the blood damage; Focus regen from multishot becomes worth it at 3 targets (which means first wave of bloods), and every MS is +40-70% aimed damage, which makes MM's singletarget damage go ballistic, while being able to burst down the adds super well when they're dragged out as well. MM is the king of all AOE scenarios because the belt buffs long, drawn out cleave, and trueshot enables insane burst.
    Point to you. I overlooked the fact that the Belt is insanely useful in those situations because i still do not have it myself, although that is by no means an excuse. Sorry i was definitely wrong in that regard.

    BM cannot DPS the parasites unless you yourself are in range of those things too, and i only mentioned it because you "could" disengage or run to them after they spawn if you are not stunned and keep an eye on the timer of the next Chaos Seed. I mostly didn't and don't do it i just thought that is something you could do - especially as MM if your raid has problems on parasites.

    Big Eye and Lasher damage is something i am not sure of myself. I played BM during progress on both of those encounters and i was able to rotate cooldowns on the big eyes. I had BW for literally every Eye, as well as Crows because the cooldown reset and i just would not use crows on the Boss. You then could rotate TT and Aspect on every other Eye if playing with CoF or bracers - or if not playing with one of those items have aspect ready for the double Spawn which was arguably the most important one. You didn't need "everything" to top damage on the eyes, BW and Crows were ready safely and rotating the other 2 was more than enough.
    I personally was able to beat out or at least be even with our two fury warriors (although they did not single-draught an eye to be fair)during progress - which happened primarily before 7.2 considering we got the kill 2 days after the patch hit. But that is definitely anecdotal. I am pretty sure MM does not provide similar burst damage on a single big add such as the big eye while not blowing your only Cooldown on it which leaves nothing for the boss but again i might be wrong.

    As for the lashers - if you actually bother to switch to the adds as BM - i think many players tried to convince their raidleaders to practically see them as meele so they would not need to switch on such encounters - those 2 speccs are probably very close of each other.

    I guess you also got me by the outrange issue in phase 1 - but BM was able to provide a good amount of damage on both the big adds and the big eye which spawned while the Fel Lord was still up. But i would agree that MM was better in P1 in general.

    To be honest i would have probably played way more MM during progress if i had either belt or gloves, but i didn't and i felt like i performed better without any BM legendaries than sticking to MM where i only had the boots. It seems like the gloves are what makes MM good on fights like augur and guldan - almost similar to BM regarding movement and the Belt propels your AoE capability and pushes you ahead on something like Tich and Botanist.

    It was always said BM is more dependant on legendaries, which is true in sims but the belt and the gloves for MM are VERY powerful in real world and/or non patchwerk scenarios. And there were also only 2 impactful legendaries for BM - the shoulders which are history - and the belt which arguably got less impactful after the new cobra shot reduction traits hit. I would argue that right now BM is less dependant on Legendaries seeing as sims of legendaries are very close and it pretty much comes down to your possible non-legendary items for this slot. There are also not really many situational uses for BM legendaries. Pretty much every effect is passive and does not favor AoE or ST or whatever - unlike MM belt and gloves which seem vital for aoe or high movement.

  3. #14523
    Is it me or my sims show that convergence + medallion is the best choice? Maybe something is wrong. it shows:
    convergence(905)+BTI(880+socket)-936,531dps, medallion(910)+engine(910)-947,646, Medallion(910)-BTI(880+socket)-950,005, convergence(905)+Medallion(910)-961,895. Am i missing something? it was done with current set(almost all pieces bis) and Boots+gloves legendary setup.
    https://www.raidbots.com/reports/SkneRuI7b/index.html
    Last edited by drgrain; 2017-06-20 at 11:02 AM.

  4. #14524
    Quote Originally Posted by caph View Post
    Point to you. I overlooked the fact that the Belt is insanely useful in those situations because i still do not have it myself, although that is by no means an excuse. Sorry i was definitely wrong in that regard.

    BM cannot DPS the parasites unless you yourself are in range of those things too, and i only mentioned it because you "could" disengage or run to them after they spawn if you are not stunned and keep an eye on the timer of the next Chaos Seed. I mostly didn't and don't do it i just thought that is something you could do - especially as MM if your raid has problems on parasites.
    Yea, it's doable, and I've done it in a pinch. I'd say BM probably beats MM in P3 due to the fact that BM can have BW up for every demon (high-priority damage target), while trueshot is only available for "some" of them (and even then, if you use trueshot before the 3x orb blow, which you reasonably should have been doing during progress because that's the hardest part of P3, it'd not be up for the 30sec expose - BM can get BW back up for it).


    Big Eye and Lasher damage is something i am not sure of myself. I played BM during progress on both of those encounters and i was able to rotate cooldowns on the big eyes. I had BW for literally every Eye, as well as Crows because the cooldown reset and i just would not use crows on the Boss. You then could rotate TT and Aspect on every other Eye if playing with CoF or bracers - or if not playing with one of those items have aspect ready for the double Spawn which was arguably the most important one. You didn't need "everything" to top damage on the eyes, BW and Crows were ready safely and rotating the other 2 was more than enough.
    I personally was able to beat out or at least be even with our two fury warriors (although they did not single-draught an eye to be fair)during progress - which happened primarily before 7.2 considering we got the kill 2 days after the patch hit. But that is definitely anecdotal. I am pretty sure MM does not provide similar burst damage on a single big add such as the big eye while not blowing your only Cooldown on it which leaves nothing for the boss but again i might be wrong.
    Lasher damage is perfectly fine for BM, don't get me wrong. But there's no way BM would pretty much solo a wave of lashers inside their stun which MM pretty much can (4x marked shots reasonably). That's nitpicky, though. As for the eye, I never played with crows because there's a lot of cleave going on, but I can see how that boosts the damage. Looking at your progress logs, you do push out more damage on them than I do, but my raid in general annihilates them much harder than yours as well (mind that we killed it almost two weeks later, which ment traits etc had started to come into play), when comparing the night-before-kill logs between the two of us. I'll concede BM might beat MM there, but I'm doubtful. You guys however killed it the "long and drawn out"-way which we never even bothered attempting (we knew by the time we'd get to the end of P2, patch would hit, and we'd be easily able to phase before the eye+storm combo), where BM would have been godly for the eye that happens during the storm cast.



    As for the lashers - if you actually bother to switch to the adds as BM - i think many players tried to convince their raidleaders to practically see them as meele so they would not need to switch on such encounters - those 2 speccs are probably very close of each other.

    Oh, I know. My raiders are retards. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/K6z8YjwP4yxkTLbV#fight=61&type=damage-done&target=245



    I guess you also got me by the outrange issue in phase 1 - but BM was able to provide a good amount of damage on both the big adds and the big eye which spawned while the Fel Lord was still up. But i would agree that MM was better in P1 in general.
    Aye, but then, trick shot+marked shot always was better cleave than Beastcleave (being virtually free damage on 2 out of 3 targets as focus gain from multishot outweights arcane shot, so changing your rotation has little to no impact on main target).

    To be honest i would have probably played way more MM during progress if i had either belt or gloves, but i didn't and i felt like i performed better without any BM legendaries than sticking to MM where i only had the boots. It seems like the gloves are what makes MM good on fights like augur and guldan - almost similar to BM regarding movement and the Belt propels your AoE capability and pushes you ahead on something like Tich and Botanist.


    It was always said BM is more dependant on legendaries, which is true in sims but the belt and the gloves for MM are VERY powerful in real world and/or non patchwerk scenarios. And there were also only 2 impactful legendaries for BM - the shoulders which are history - and the belt which arguably got less impactful after the new cobra shot reduction traits hit. I would argue that right now BM is less dependant on Legendaries seeing as sims of legendaries are very close and it pretty much comes down to your possible non-legendary items for this slot. There are also not really many situational uses for BM legendaries. Pretty much every effect is passive and does not favor AoE or ST or whatever - unlike MM belt and gloves which seem vital for aoe or high movement.
    I never really figured why people thought MM was less dependant on legendaries. If it's a sim thing, fair enough - but not having gotten the boots untill a few weeks into NH while my co-hunter got them as his third legendary back in EN, it was quite evident how big of a gap there was between us because of those alone, especially on a fight like say, Cenarius, where he could reasonably smash two waves of wisps with trueshot, while I could only do a single - or Helya, where he'd have trueshot up for #1 and #4 slime, while I could only do a single (thus opting to save my trueshot for #2, with our alt-hunter doing #3, enabling us to absolutely annihilate the slimes by cycling trueshots; Something we couldn't have done without his boots).

    The belt was my last MM legendary (second-to-last total for the spec; Prydaz was the only one missing), and I got the belt deep into NH (post-elisande, at the very least), and the difference it makes on a fight like Augur and Tich is also amazing to watch. I remember sitting a night after farm comparing myself and the other hunter (who, of course, got the belt and gloves super early just like the boots, while I just had boots/gloves) on tich, and comming to the realisation that I hadn't actually played worse than the other hunter; We had almost identical amounts of aimed shots, reasonably close crit percentages, etc, but he was still *400K* ahead of me (something like 1.3M vs 900K dps). Then it hit me; His damage on bloods was super high, and he had like 70% aimed shot damage. The belt alone was making it so that he was basically firing off double the amount of aimed shots (that all cleave onto the blobs due to trick shot, of course) that I was.


    Suffice to say, with shoulders no longer being mandatory (heck, they're going to not be used at all for people with decent T19 pieces in favor of 2pc+4pc), BM is the least legendary dependant dps spec of every class that I know of, *maybe* barring shadow priests (that's not because all their legendaries are good though, quite the opposite. They all suck so bad that their best ones are basicly 4.5% haste when entering voidform shoulders, and 2% haste at all times sephuz). It really doesn't matter which ones you have as BM come tomb, you'll do well. Heck, we've even gotten to a point where you can either have a heavy haste-reliant spec (Dire Frenzy) or heavy crit reliant (Stomp), and do almost the same damage, with stomp edging above in AOE/cleave and DF in single target. As long as your item has mastery, you're fucking good to go. That's beautiful.

    TL;DR - both BM and MM were good for NH, and both had their strengths at various tasks. I might disagree on which is the better priority singletarget, but outside of that, the fact that we can sit here discussing this shows how good of a spot the specs are actually in; Both are viable for progress, and fuck, they're actually outright "good". They share large amounts of gear, and one of them requires next to no specific legendary setup, so you can set your lootspec to MM and harvest the required ones with no real downside. We'll actually get to see a tier in Tomb where experienced hunters WILL be switching specs dependant on the encounter because AP farm is less of an issue (getting two specs to 58 = same effort as 1x spec to 60, and most people won't be going much further than 60 for mythic progress). It's actually quite nice.

  5. #14525
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    I never really figured why people thought MM was less dependant on legendaries. If it's a sim thing, fair enough - but not having gotten the boots untill a few weeks into NH while my co-hunter got them as his third legendary back in EN, it was quite evident how big of a gap there was between us because of those alone, especially on a fight like say, Cenarius, where he could reasonably smash two waves of wisps with trueshot, while I could only do a single - or Helya, where he'd have trueshot up for #1 and #4 slime, while I could only do a single (thus opting to save my trueshot for #2, with our alt-hunter doing #3, enabling us to absolutely annihilate the slimes by cycling trueshots; Something we couldn't have done without his boots).

    The belt was my last MM legendary (second-to-last total for the spec; Prydaz was the only one missing), and I got the belt deep into NH (post-elisande, at the very least), and the difference it makes on a fight like Augur and Tich is also amazing to watch. I remember sitting a night after farm comparing myself and the other hunter (who, of course, got the belt and gloves super early just like the boots, while I just had boots/gloves) on tich, and comming to the realisation that I hadn't actually played worse than the other hunter; We had almost identical amounts of aimed shots, reasonably close crit percentages, etc, but he was still *400K* ahead of me (something like 1.3M vs 900K dps). Then it hit me; His damage on bloods was super high, and he had like 70% aimed shot damage. The belt alone was making it so that he was basically firing off double the amount of aimed shots (that all cleave onto the blobs due to trick shot, of course) that I was.


    Suffice to say, with shoulders no longer being mandatory (heck, they're going to not be used at all for people with decent T19 pieces in favor of 2pc+4pc), BM is the least legendary dependant dps spec of every class that I know of, *maybe* barring shadow priests (that's not because all their legendaries are good though, quite the opposite. They all suck so bad that their best ones are basicly 4.5% haste when entering voidform shoulders, and 2% haste at all times sephuz). It really doesn't matter which ones you have as BM come tomb, you'll do well. Heck, we've even gotten to a point where you can either have a heavy haste-reliant spec (Dire Frenzy) or heavy crit reliant (Stomp), and do almost the same damage, with stomp edging above in AOE/cleave and DF in single target. As long as your item has mastery, you're fucking good to go. That's beautiful.

    TL;DR - both BM and MM were good for NH, and both had their strengths at various tasks. I might disagree on which is the better priority singletarget, but outside of that, the fact that we can sit here discussing this shows how good of a spot the specs are actually in; Both are viable for progress, and fuck, they're actually outright "good". They share large amounts of gear, and one of them requires next to no specific legendary setup, so you can set your lootspec to MM and harvest the required ones with no real downside. We'll actually get to see a tier in Tomb where experienced hunters WILL be switching specs dependant on the encounter because AP farm is less of an issue (getting two specs to 58 = same effort as 1x spec to 60, and most people won't be going much further than 60 for mythic progress). It's actually quite nice.
    I can't find any room for disagreement here and thank you for your insightful and thorough input here. My issue with MM as far as this thread is concerned, is not really because I just don't like the spec. I like the spec plenty, what I dislike is the general hype and trollishness I've come across here and the way that Azor's guide is presented.

    Personally I did not swap to BM until late into NH, I had absolute terrible luck with legendaries, literally got all of the worst ones first. The only leggos I got that are even specific to MM are the hunters mark ring and bracers, so I made the swap to BM and sure enough I started getting only the best legendaries for that and it was clearly a monumental DPS difference.

    But MM can be incredibly strong, but I have not seen any evidence that this is generally true unless you have the best gear available to you, it's strengths don't really shine until you have the best leggos available.

  6. #14526
    Keep in mind that in terms of pure power, MM looks like it'll be strongest in tomb by a fair margin; The huntmaster ring is INCREDIBLY strong for single target, and with the UA talent being buffed back to the glory of release (relatively speaking, anyway; It used to be 10% per trait, with vuln at 100%, and was then nerfed to 4%. Now that Vuln has been nerfed to 30%, and UA only to 3%, it means that the trait is worth the exact same as when it was released, AKA OP), and two VERY easy to reach UA traits in tomb, I can't see BM pulling ahead outside of heavy movement (relics drop from KJ, and first boss; KJ drops 925 items on heroic so a relic from him is a godsend, especially for split runs, as you'll get 6-7 items in a split heroic, versus only 4x on a mythic boss that drops 930. And of course, first boss is first boss; It'll be the first to die, so instant access to the other mythic level relic).

  7. #14527
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakou View Post
    No I don't. It's not. When it has been It's so marginal it does not even matter. Really. It's not even a 5% dps difference you're out of your mind and no MM is not ahead right now right no no one has done TOS bosses in TOS gear on live and has logs.

    But when MM is ahead you people tend to act like it's awesome, and it's not. It's a really horribly designed spec that is not rewarding enough for the crap you have to go through to make it work.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I only looked at the link for the first one. either way we're right you're not.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...1&class=Hunter

    FFs the only fights that MM was ever ahead of in any significant way at all whatsoever was fucking Tichondrius, Skorpyon and Spellblade. Truth is that it looked like Marks was more ahead in general because more hunters were playing marks, fact of the matter is that BM scales better with gear and as more people started to get better gear as BM it was a pretty much 50/50 split to bm and mm for NH.

    Face facts, there are plenty of issues with marksmanship, and it's more pronounced depending on the fight.
    Lol what. Did you even read your link? Its top parses for the bosses. And on those bosses theres more MM parses than BM parses except for 1 boss. Try again, you're still wrong. I'm also pretty sure you don't even know what would make one right or wrong in the context of the argument, like a child jumping in the middle of a conversation.

  8. #14528
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Proton View Post
    Lol what. Did you even read your link? Its top parses for the bosses. And on those bosses theres more MM parses than BM parses except for 1 boss. Try again, you're still wrong. I'm also pretty sure you don't even know what would make one right or wrong in the context of the argument, like a child jumping in the middle of a conversation.
    Did you try learning basic math? Because more MM parses than BM parses does not mean one spec is further ahead than the other that just means more people played the spec, what matters is the median and the link I put up shows is that on average there was no major significant difference between the two specs and that MM only edged out BM on AOE fights in Nighthold in 7.1.5.

    Stop it. You're not right and you're never going to be right about this. I'm certainly you don't know how to count past 10 if you disagree with me. It's that simple. This isn't about your stupid ego and your little tiny pathetic e peen it's about math and you aren't good at it.
    Last edited by Shakou; 2017-06-20 at 11:21 PM.

  9. #14529
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakou View Post
    Did you try learning basic math? Because more MM parses than BM parses does not mean one spec is further ahead than the other that just means more people played the spec. What the link I put up shows is that on average there was no significant difference between the two specs and that MM only edged out BM on AOE fights in Nighthold in 7.1.5.

    Stop it. You're not right and you're never going to be right about this. I'm certainly you don't know how to count past 10 if you disagree with me. It's that simple.
    What? Mine was an aggregate of parses over time(number of parses doesn't even matter). Yours was literally 10 plot points. The top 10 parses IS NOT the median. You didn't show the average of anything, you showed the very extreme and top end. You should learn basic math and to count past 10, because I clearly can while you can't. Stay certainly, friend.
    Last edited by Captain Proton; 2017-06-20 at 11:27 PM.

  10. #14530
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Proton View Post
    What? Mine was an aggregate of parses over time. Yours was literally 10 plot points. You should learn basic math.
    You're retarded. My link is simply all bosses, all hunters. I didn't say all the important data backing me up was on that one page, not my fault you can't think beyond your nose and don't bother to look at the fucking data beyond page 1, you blimey moron. Literally all of the god damn data is there. That's the point. The data does not support what you're saying. But it's all there and that's why the link was given. The average from top parses on NH in 7.1.5 was basically split 50/50 BM/MM and MM was only ahead on the fights I mentioned. What the fuck are you even arguing about? No MM never had any significant DPS advantage over BM in Nighthold, and when it came to single target damage it didn't at all.
    Last edited by Shakou; 2017-06-20 at 11:30 PM.

  11. #14531
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakou View Post
    You're retarded. The average from top parses on NH in 7.1.5 was literally split 50/50 BM/MM. GO away.
    No, they literally werent as it also contained survival. Unless you're saying survival had 0 parses. You don't even know fucking English bro.

    Again, taking the top 10 isn't the average.

    Skorp: 10 MM
    Anom: 4BM, 1 Surv, 5 MM
    Triliax: 3BM, 3 Surv, 4 MM
    Spellblade: 10 MM
    Tich: 10 MM
    Augur: 4BM, 1 Surv, 4 MM
    Krosus: 3BM, 5 Surv, 2 MM
    Bot: 4BM, 2 Surv, 4 MM
    Elisande: 3BM, 7MM
    Guldan: 1BM, 5 Survival, 4MM

    50/50 SPLIT LOL. Not even close.
    Last edited by Captain Proton; 2017-06-20 at 11:34 PM.

  12. #14532
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Proton View Post
    No, they literally werent as it also contained survival. Unless you're saying survival had 0 parses. You don't even know fucking English bro.

    Again, taking the top 10 isn't the average.
    I get that you're not good at math and lack basic sense of anything, but we're talking about MM and BM here. Just because there are survival parses on my link doesn't change what I said. It just means you can't count, let alone do basic elementary school math like figure out the average median between 2 sets of numbers.

    Literally all of the data on 7.1.5 hunters is on my link. That's the point. Not my fault you don't know how to interpret that, but anyone skimming through those logs will not find MM pulling significantly ahead on anything but Tich, Spellblade, and Skorp. That's the point.

    It literally doesn't matter if you agree or not, I don't know where you got the impression I care what you think but I don't you can stop responding now you're on my ignore list anyways.
    Last edited by Shakou; 2017-06-20 at 11:37 PM.

  13. #14533
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakou View Post
    I get that you're not good at math, but we're talking about MM and BM here. Just because there are survival parses on my link doesn't change what I said. It just means you can't count, let alone do basic elementary school math like figure out the average median between 2 sets of numbers.

    Literally all of the data is on my link. That's the point. Not my fault you don't know how to interpret that.
    Skorp: 10 MM
    Anom: 4BM, 1 Surv, 5 MM
    Triliax: 3BM, 3 Surv, 4 MM
    Spellblade: 10 MM
    Tich: 10 MM
    Augur: 4BM, 1 Surv, 4 MM
    Krosus: 3BM, 5 Surv, 2 MM
    Bot: 4BM, 2 Surv, 4 MM
    Elisande: 3BM, 7MM
    Guldan: 1BM, 5 Survival, 4MM

    50/50 SPLIT LOL. Not even close.

    You don't even know what the fuck you post. But yeah, keep insulting my intelligence. It's pretty hilarious.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shakou View Post
    You're retarded. My link is simply all bosses, all hunters. I didn't say all the important data backing me up was on that one page, not my fault you can't think beyond your nose and don't bother to look at the fucking data beyond page 1, you blimey moron. Literally all of the god damn data is there. That's the point. The data does not support what you're saying. But it's all there and that's why the link was given. The average from top parses on NH in 7.1.5 was basically split 50/50 BM/MM and MM was only ahead on the fights I mentioned. What the fuck are you even arguing about? No MM never had any significant DPS advantage over BM in Nighthold, and when it came to single target damage it didn't at all.
    Your data, again, is the average of 10 plot points.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...n=1&dataset=90

    That's what you're looking for. Notice how the average of all the parses at the 90th percentile, MM is higher than BM? That's the shit you should be looking for.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...0&class=Hunter

    Here it is on a timeline for your dumbass.

  14. #14534
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Proton View Post
    Skorp: 10 MM
    Anom: 4BM, 1 Surv, 5 MM
    Triliax: 3BM, 3 Surv, 4 MM
    Spellblade: 10 MM
    Tich: 10 MM
    Augur: 4BM, 1 Surv, 4 MM
    Krosus: 3BM, 5 Surv, 2 MM
    Bot: 4BM, 2 Surv, 4 MM
    Elisande: 3BM, 7MM
    Guldan: 1BM, 5 Survival, 4MM

    50/50 SPLIT LOL. Not even close.

    You don't even know what the fuck you post. But yeah, keep insulting my intelligence. It's pretty hilarious.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Your data, again, is the average of 10 plot points.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...n=1&dataset=90

    That's what you're looking for. Notice how the average of all the parses at the 90th percentile, MM is higher than BM? That's the shit you should be looking for.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...0&class=Hunter

    Here it is on a timeline for your dumbass.
    No homie you just suck at math really, and you try to make your point by decreasing the number of parses you consider valid makes you look foolish to people who are not bad at math or lack basic logic and common sense.

    Stop. You're fooling nobody here.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ount&boss=1849

    Just go here and scroll through fights. MM wasn't even the TOP spec for half of them.
    Last edited by Shakou; 2017-06-21 at 01:27 PM.

  15. #14535
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakou View Post
    No homie you just suck at math really, and you try to make your point by decreasing the number of parses makes you look foolish to people who are not bad at math or lack basic logic and common sense.

    Stop. You're fooling nobody here.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ount&boss=1849

    Just go here and scroll through fights. MM wasn't even the TOP spec for half of them.
    This is just too much lol.

  16. #14536
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post

    Oh, I know. My raiders are retards. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/K6z8YjwP4yxkTLbV#fight=61&type=damage-done&target=245

    This is hilarious. This looks pretty similar to my raid during progress and the first 10 kills or something


    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco
    TL;DR - both BM and MM were good for NH, and both had their strengths at various tasks. I might disagree on which is the better priority singletarget, but outside of that, the fact that we can sit here discussing this shows how good of a spot the specs are actually in; Both are viable for progress, and fuck, they're actually outright "good". They share large amounts of gear, and one of them requires next to no specific legendary setup, so you can set your lootspec to MM and harvest the required ones with no real downside. We'll actually get to see a tier in Tomb where experienced hunters WILL be switching specs dependant on the encounter because AP farm is less of an issue (getting two specs to 58 = same effort as 1x spec to 60, and most people won't be going much further than 60 for mythic progress). It's actually quite nice.
    I could not agree more, Amen to that. I just hope blizzard won't break this to the point that only one specc is viable when they do another round of tuning. Well i guess we will find out soon.

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